Call for musl-based distro blurbs

Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Rich Felker]

Hi all,
I'm planning to overhaul the musl website soon, and I'd like to
include information on all distros/projects using musl. This will
serve both to demonstrate musl's completeness and get some attention
for projects based on musl. Supposedly everyone in #musl has a distro,
so by now that should be quite a lot... ;-)

Some things that would be good to include in a description of your
projects would be the basic idea, what makes it unique, what new
concepts/features/tools it's based on (e.g. package manager or build
automation), the number of packages included or successfully built on
it, etc.

No definite ETA yet but I'll probably get the new website up somewhere
between 0.9.1 and 0.9.2, assuming 0.9.1 doesn't run into any nasty
release issues that require a quick 0.9.2 to replace it...

Rich

Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Kyle Sanderson]

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I was just looking for this today, I couldn't find any distros using Musl,
sadly.

Does anyone know of a distro using it?
Kyle.

On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Rich Felker <dalias@aerifal.cx> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I'm planning to overhaul the musl website soon, and I'd like to
> include information on all distros/projects using musl. This will
> serve both to demonstrate musl's completeness and get some attention
> for projects based on musl. Supposedly everyone in #musl has a distro,
> so by now that should be quite a lot... ;-)
>
> Some things that would be good to include in a description of your
> projects would be the basic idea, what makes it unique, what new
> concepts/features/tools it's based on (e.g. package manager or build
> automation), the number of packages included or successfully built on
> it, etc.
>
> No definite ETA yet but I'll probably get the new website up somewhere
> between 0.9.1 and 0.9.2, assuming 0.9.1 doesn't run into any nasty
> release issues that require a quick 0.9.2 to replace it...
>
> Rich
>

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Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Szabolcs Nagy]

* Kyle Sanderson <kyle.leet@gmail.com> [2012-05-25 22:00:25 -0700]:
> Does anyone know of a distro using it?
> 

https://github.com/rofl0r/sabotage

Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[gs]

On 05/26/2012 01:22 AM, Rich Felker wrote:
> Hi all,
> I'm planning to overhaul the musl website soon, and I'd like to
> include information on all distros/projects using musl. This will
> serve both to demonstrate musl's completeness and get some attention
> for projects based on musl. Supposedly everyone in #musl has a distro,
> so by now that should be quite a lot... ;-)
>
> Some things that would be good to include in a description of your
> projects would be the basic idea, what makes it unique, what new
> concepts/features/tools it's based on (e.g. package manager or build
> automation), the number of packages included or successfully built on
> it, etc.
>
> No definite ETA yet but I'll probably get the new website up somewhere
> between 0.9.1 and 0.9.2, assuming 0.9.1 doesn't run into any nasty
> release issues that require a quick 0.9.2 to replace it...
>
> Rich
>
here's the blob for https://github.com/rofl0r/sabotage

"this sabotage fork aims to stay up to date, and keep the core base 
system (busybox, development tools) statically compiled. it uses a 
hardened kernel and has experimental Xfbdev support. the package manager 
was written from scratch in C and aims to provide a parallel build 
experience. there are a couple of tweaks applied to make the whole 
system build in less than 40 minutes on a 8-core machine. the package 
manager allows to customize the build process using templates (possible 
use cases: automatic binary package generation, usage of a custom 
prefix...)"

--JS

Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Szabolcs Nagy]

* gs@int3.at <gs@int3.at> [2012-06-07 15:55:34 +0200]:
> whole system build in less than 40 minutes on a 8-core machine. the

i know the system is big but 40 minutes does not sound too good..

i guess most of it is gcc and kernel compilation

Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Rich Felker]

On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 05:00:24PM +0200, gs@int3.at wrote:
> On 06/07/2012 04:08 PM, Szabolcs Nagy wrote:
> >i know the system is big but 40 minutes does not sound too good..
> altogether its more than 100 packages.
> 
> stage0 (minimal bootstrap (gcc3/busybox/binutils/musl) chroot) takes
> about 2 minutes,
> stage1 (busybox, kernel, perl, gcc (c/c++) toolchain, syslinux, etc)
> ca 20 minutes, and
> pkg (gdb, nano, ncurses, lynx, ssl, ssh, curl, git, svn, alsa,
> openal, sdl, python, etc etc) + xorg about 15 minutes.
> xorg alone accounts for ~40 packages.

It would be nice if perl could be part of pkg (and optional) instead
of stage1...

Rich

Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[gs]

On 06/07/2012 04:08 PM, Szabolcs Nagy wrote:
> * gs@int3.at<gs@int3.at>  [2012-06-07 15:55:34 +0200]:
>> whole system build in less than 40 minutes on a 8-core machine. the
> i know the system is big but 40 minutes does not sound too good..
>
> i guess most of it is gcc and kernel compilation
>
altogether its more than 100 packages.

stage0 (minimal bootstrap (gcc3/busybox/binutils/musl) chroot) takes 
about 2 minutes,
stage1 (busybox, kernel, perl, gcc (c/c++) toolchain, syslinux, etc) ca 
20 minutes, and
pkg (gdb, nano, ncurses, lynx, ssl, ssh, curl, git, svn, alsa, openal, 
sdl, python, etc etc) + xorg about 15 minutes.
xorg alone accounts for ~40 packages.

Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Christian Neukirchen]

Rich Felker <dalias@aerifal.cx> writes:

> On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 05:00:24PM +0200, gs@int3.at wrote:
>> On 06/07/2012 04:08 PM, Szabolcs Nagy wrote:
>> >i know the system is big but 40 minutes does not sound too good..
>> altogether its more than 100 packages.
>> 
>> stage0 (minimal bootstrap (gcc3/busybox/binutils/musl) chroot) takes
>> about 2 minutes,
>> stage1 (busybox, kernel, perl, gcc (c/c++) toolchain, syslinux, etc)
>> ca 20 minutes, and
>> pkg (gdb, nano, ncurses, lynx, ssl, ssh, curl, git, svn, alsa,
>> openal, sdl, python, etc etc) + xorg about 15 minutes.
>> xorg alone accounts for ~40 packages.
>
> It would be nice if perl could be part of pkg (and optional) instead
> of stage1...

You need perl to compile the kernel.

-- 
Christian Neukirchen  <chneukirchen@gmail.com>  http://chneukirchen.org

Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Rich Felker]

On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 05:40:01PM +0200, Christian Neukirchen wrote:
> > It would be nice if perl could be part of pkg (and optional) instead
> > of stage1...
> 
> You need perl to compile the kernel.

There's a simple patch (not more than a few lines IIRC) to fix that
bug in the kernel.

Rich

Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Jeremy Huntwork]

On 6/7/12 12:12 PM, gs@int3.at wrote:
> landley's no-perl fix is applied, but something else is still depending
> on it.
> iirc it has to do with the ssl-certificates package.
> I need to inspect what is causing the perl dependency this time.

landley's no-perl patch is just for linux-headers installation script. 
It doesn't remove any kernel build-time perl deps (if there are any). 
Apart from linux, a major player that depends on perl is OpenSSL, since 
it's build system uses perl scripts.

JH

Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[aep]

On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 12:05:48 -0400, Jeremy Huntwork wrote:

> landley's no-perl patch is just for linux-headers installation
> script. It doesn't remove any kernel build-time perl deps (if there
> are any). Apart from linux, a major player that depends on perl is
> OpenSSL, since it's build system uses perl scripts.
>
> JH


Sure, build systems of the GNU stack are all horror, but why do you 
need perl on the _target_?
Doesn't sound like anything needs it at runtime.

Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[gs]

On 06/07/2012 05:47 PM, Rich Felker wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 05:40:01PM +0200, Christian Neukirchen wrote:
>>> It would be nice if perl could be part of pkg (and optional) instead
>>> of stage1...
>> You need perl to compile the kernel.
> There's a simple patch (not more than a few lines IIRC) to fix that
> bug in the kernel.
>
> Rich
>
landley's no-perl fix is applied, but something else is still depending 
on it.
iirc it has to do with the ssl-certificates package.
I need to inspect what is causing the perl dependency this time.

Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Rich Felker]

On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 06:17:15PM +0200, Daniel Cegiełka wrote:
> Openssl needs perl to generate a asm code, so you can generate asm code and
> then use it as a patch and remove perl dependency. Definitely the removal
> of perl will not be easy... but possible.

Couldn't you just remove the idiotic asm generation and use the C
code? It's the compiler's job, not the build scrips' job, to generate
asm, and the compiler probably does a perfectly acceptable job, if not
a better job...

Rich

Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Daniel Cegiełka]

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2012/6/7 Jeremy Huntwork <jhuntwork@lightcubesolutions.com>

> On 6/7/12 12:12 PM, gs@int3.at wrote:
>
>> landley's no-perl fix is applied, but something else is still depending
>> on it.
>> iirc it has to do with the ssl-certificates package.
>> I need to inspect what is causing the perl dependency this time.
>>
>
> landley's no-perl patch is just for linux-headers installation script. It
> doesn't remove any kernel build-time perl deps (if there are any). Apart
> from linux, a major player that depends on perl is OpenSSL, since it's
> build system uses perl scripts.
>
>
Openssl needs perl to generate a asm code, so you can generate asm code and
then use it as a patch and remove perl dependency. Definitely the removal
of perl will not be easy... but possible.

And what about autoconf (in perl)?

regards,
Daniel

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Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Rich Felker]

On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 06:38:34PM +0200, Daniel Cegiełka wrote:
> > Couldn't you just remove the idiotic asm generation and use the C
> > code? It's the compiler's job, not the build scrips' job, to generate
> > asm, and the compiler probably does a perfectly acceptable job, if not
> > a better job...
> >
> >
> The problem is to maintain support for future versions. In my view, the
> option with generating the asm code is easier and fully compatible with
> openssl (code from openssl). By adding own implementations of the crypto
> algorithms one can also add his own bugs. With this issue we can ask the
> developers of openssl - ask how they see the idea to remove perl from
> openssl.

I'm nearly sure they have C versions of the code too for cpus they
don't explicitly support. The asm is just a (premature) optimization,
so removing it should not harm anyone.

Rich

Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Daniel Cegiełka]

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2012/6/7 Rich Felker <dalias@aerifal.cx>

> On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 06:17:15PM +0200, Daniel Cegiełka wrote:
> > Openssl needs perl to generate a asm code, so you can generate asm code
> and
> > then use it as a patch and remove perl dependency. Definitely the removal
> > of perl will not be easy... but possible.
>
> Couldn't you just remove the idiotic asm generation and use the C
> code? It's the compiler's job, not the build scrips' job, to generate
> asm, and the compiler probably does a perfectly acceptable job, if not
> a better job...
>
>
The problem is to maintain support for future versions. In my view, the
option with generating the asm code is easier and fully compatible with
openssl (code from openssl). By adding own implementations of the crypto
algorithms one can also add his own bugs. With this issue we can ask the
developers of openssl - ask how they see the idea to remove perl from
openssl.

Daniel

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Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Luca Barbato]

On 06/07/2012 06:37 PM, Rich Felker wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 06:38:34PM +0200, Daniel Cegiełka wrote:
>>> Couldn't you just remove the idiotic asm generation and use the C
>>> code? It's the compiler's job, not the build scrips' job, to generate
>>> asm, and the compiler probably does a perfectly acceptable job, if not
>>> a better job...
>>>
>>>
>> The problem is to maintain support for future versions. In my view, the
>> option with generating the asm code is easier and fully compatible with
>> openssl (code from openssl). By adding own implementations of the crypto
>> algorithms one can also add his own bugs. With this issue we can ask the
>> developers of openssl - ask how they see the idea to remove perl from
>> openssl.
> 
> I'm nearly sure they have C versions of the code too for cpus they
> don't explicitly support. The asm is just a (premature) optimization,
> so removing it should not harm anyone.

Or since the aim is tiny, just use polarssl.

lu

-- 

Luca Barbato
Gentoo/linux
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero

Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Daniel Cegiełka]

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>
> Or since the aim is tiny, just use polarssl.
>

or matrixssl: http://www.matrixssl.org/

MatrixSSL is main SSL lib on LynxOS:

http://www.lynuxworks.com/partners/show_product.php?ID=281

http://www.lynuxworks.com/

Daniel

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Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Christian Neukirchen]

Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org> writes:

> On 06/07/2012 06:37 PM, Rich Felker wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 06:38:34PM +0200, Daniel Cegiełka wrote:
>>>> Couldn't you just remove the idiotic asm generation and use the C
>>>> code? It's the compiler's job, not the build scrips' job, to generate
>>>> asm, and the compiler probably does a perfectly acceptable job, if not
>>>> a better job...
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The problem is to maintain support for future versions. In my view, the
>>> option with generating the asm code is easier and fully compatible with
>>> openssl (code from openssl). By adding own implementations of the crypto
>>> algorithms one can also add his own bugs. With this issue we can ask the
>>> developers of openssl - ask how they see the idea to remove perl from
>>> openssl.
>> 
>> I'm nearly sure they have C versions of the code too for cpus they
>> don't explicitly support. The asm is just a (premature) optimization,
>> so removing it should not harm anyone.
>
> Or since the aim is tiny, just use polarssl.

Or, hey, let's start a mussl!

-- 
Christian Neukirchen  <chneukirchen@gmail.com>  http://chneukirchen.org

Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Szabolcs Nagy]

* Christian Neukirchen <chneukirchen@gmail.com> [2012-06-07 19:39:00 +0200]:
> > Or since the aim is tiny, just use polarssl.
> 
> Or, hey, let's start a mussl!
> 

ssl is deprecated, it would be mutls

Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Ivan Kanakarakis]

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There is also lightcube [0] and snowflake [1]
btw, sabotage also has a homepage [2]

[0]: https://github.com/jhuntwork/lightcube-bootstrap-musl
[1]: https://github.com/GregorR/snowflake
[2]: http://chneukirchen.github.com/sabotage/


On 26 May 2012 02:22, Rich Felker <dalias@aerifal.cx> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I'm planning to overhaul the musl website soon, and I'd like to
> include information on all distros/projects using musl. This will
> serve both to demonstrate musl's completeness and get some attention
> for projects based on musl. Supposedly everyone in #musl has a distro,
> so by now that should be quite a lot... ;-)
>
> Some things that would be good to include in a description of your
> projects would be the basic idea, what makes it unique, what new
> concepts/features/tools it's based on (e.g. package manager or build
> automation), the number of packages included or successfully built on
> it, etc.
>
> No definite ETA yet but I'll probably get the new website up somewhere
> between 0.9.1 and 0.9.2, assuming 0.9.1 doesn't run into any nasty
> release issues that require a quick 0.9.2 to replace it...
>
> Rich
>



-- 
*Ivan c00kiemon5ter V Kanakarakis*  >:3

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Re: Call for musl-based distro blurbs

[Szabolcs Nagy]

* Ivan Kanakarakis <ivan.kanak@gmail.com> [2012-06-08 05:06:00 +0300]:
> There is also lightcube [0] and snowflake [1]
> btw, sabotage also has a homepage [2]
> 
> [0]: https://github.com/jhuntwork/lightcube-bootstrap-musl
> [1]: https://github.com/GregorR/snowflake
> [2]: http://chneukirchen.github.com/sabotage/
> 

and bootstrap-linux by pikhq:

https://github.com/pikhq/bootstrap-linux