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From: Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org>
To: musl@lists.openwall.com
Subject: Re: [musl] Minor style patch to exit.c
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 11:22:33 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200119162233.GD30412@brightrain.aerifal.cx> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ad60275b-fd62-2e38-7a17-a64f4bc0a9f0@openwall.com>

On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 06:53:49PM +0300, Alexander Cherepanov wrote:
> On 19/01/2020 17.24, Markus Wichmann wrote:
> >On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 04:33:47PM +0300, Alexander Cherepanov wrote:
> >>Couldn't _start defined as an array? Then separate values could be accessed
> >>simply as elements of this array. And casts to integers could be limited to
> >>calculating the number of elements, the terminating value or something.
> >
> >That reminds me of something I read in the C standard: Two pointers must
> >compare equal if, among other possibilities, one is a pointer to
> >one-past its underlying array, and the other is a pointer to the start
> >of its array, and the arrays happen to lie behind one another in address
> >space.
> 
> One[1] of the gcc bug reports I mentioned is exactly about this
> issue. DR 260[2] allows to take the provenance of the pointers into
> account when comparing them and gcc really does this.
> 
> [1] https://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=61502
> [2] http://open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/dr_260.htm
> 
> As a side note, I thinks this is the wildest gcc bug report, it
> contains really mind-blowing comments (like comment 3). I don't mean
> it in a bad way at all and if you want to turn your understanding of
> C language inside-out you can try to read it. OTOH I think it's all
> wrong after all and I have some hope for it to be settled after my
> recent comments there. But I don't hold my breath.
> 
> >Therefore, if _start and _end were arrays, even the GCC devs must agree
> >that there might be an integer i such that _start + i == _end. For the C
> >language, _start and _end would be arrays that happen to lie adjacent in
> >address space.
> >
> >And if we have guarantees from the outside attesting to that, then
> >_end - _start is no longer an undefined expression, right?
> 
> Even if we know that _start + k == _end it doesn't mean that we
> allowed to subtract them.

Consider a function that takes a pointer p, an array a, and a length
l, and does:

	for (i=0; i<l; i++) if (a+i == p) return p-a;

Can f(_end,_start,k) and f(_start+k,_start,k) legitimately differ,
despite _end==_start+k? I think the answer is no, in the existing C
language, in that the result of an expression is a pure function of
the *values* put into it. But compiler folks do not want to interpret
it this way and are pushing through hidden "provenance" state, so...

Rich

  reply	other threads:[~2020-01-19 16:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 21+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-01-19 11:07 Markus Wichmann
2020-01-19 11:12 ` Markus Wichmann
2020-01-19 11:31 ` Szabolcs Nagy
2020-01-19 12:17   ` Markus Wichmann
2020-01-19 13:33   ` Alexander Cherepanov
2020-01-19 14:24     ` Markus Wichmann
2020-01-19 14:49       ` Pascal Cuoq
2020-01-19 15:53       ` Alexander Cherepanov
2020-01-19 16:22         ` Rich Felker [this message]
2020-01-19 21:02           ` Alexander Cherepanov
2020-01-19 14:46     ` Alexander Monakov
2020-01-19 16:18       ` Rich Felker
2020-01-19 17:11         ` Alexander Monakov
2020-01-19 17:17           ` Alexander Monakov
2020-01-19 17:19           ` Rich Felker
2020-01-19 17:32             ` Alexander Monakov
2020-01-19 17:38               ` Rich Felker
2020-01-19 19:13                 ` Alexander Monakov
2020-01-19 16:33       ` Alexander Cherepanov
2020-01-19 16:39         ` Rich Felker
2020-01-19 21:34           ` Alexander Cherepanov

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