Quotation dash issues with semantic markup

Quotation dash issues with semantic markup

[Sam May]

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Any of you able to help me get my quotation dashes into line when 
automatically inserted by the semantic commands?  I'm sure a number of you 
look at this style and cringe, but A. I'm not looking for grammatical input, 
and B. I'm intending this for a non-English language where the quotation dash 
(though still not most common) isn't as out of place.

See attachment for actual examples, but I'm looking for a dash at each side of 
the quotation, /except/ at the very end of a paragraph.  I additionally want 
dialogue tags (via \aside, and located within quotations) to not print their 
surrounding decoration if they're directly next to the larger dash of the 
quotation.  Unfortunately, the only way I can think of doing the first is by 
checking if the next token's \par, and that gets thrown off by the internal 
logic of \quotation; I'm not at all sure how to start going about the asides.

It would also be nice if a quote ending in a period carried the 'broad' 
spacing to the other side of the (ending) quote dash -- the dash before 'Also' 
in the examples would be packed on the left and broad on the right.  I know 
this might be a lot trickier to code, and only consider it a bonus.

An additional issue with \removeunwantedspaces only seems to affect the 
command forms.  When inserted directly, the spacing acts as desired in the PDF 
(as expected, the XML doesn't understand the order).  Also, the right |>| 
doesn't require either of the explicit spacing instructions (beyond being 
non-breaking) while the others do.

The quotation dash itself only /looks/ as I want it; when I highlight and copy 
the text or export it to the XML backend, it's still two dashes next to each 
other.  Instead, I'd like it to be the Unicode bar U+2015.  I'm not sure if 
TEX/LUATEX allows that difference between appearance and interaction (I do 
know PDF does), so if there's some way of adding a new glyph to the font -- 
one that mimics the other dashes even if the font changes -- I'd love to 
actually use the proper codepoint.  As is, that doesn't work in the standard 
font(s).

Thanks for the help!  I know it's quite a bit of an ask.

Sam

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Re: Quotation dash issues with semantic markup

[Hans Hagen]

On 12/30/2019 5:03 AM, Sam May wrote:


\setuplanguage[en]
	[leftquotation=\quotedash~,
	rightquotation=~\quotedash,
	leftsentence=\removeunwantedspaces~\endash\space,
	midsentence=\removeunwantedspaces~\endash\space,
%	leftsentence=\endash~,
%	midsentence=~\endash,
	rightsentence=~\endash]
\define\quotedash{\emdash\endash}

%\setupbackend[export=yes]

\starttext

\startsection[title=Introduction]
Any of you able to help me get my quotation dashes into line when 
automatically
inserted by the semantic commands?  I'm sure a number of you look at 
this style
and cringe, but \cap{A.} I'm not looking for grammatical input, and 
\cap{B.}
I'm intending this for a non-English language where the quotation dash 
(though
still not most common) isn't as out of place.
\stopsection

\startsection[title=Desired rendering]
\quotedash~Speech should always have a dash at the start, but none at 
the end
of a paragraph.

\quotedash~Dialog asides should not duplicate dashes,~\endash\ he
said.~\quotedash\ Also, this doesn't reflect the spacing mentioned in 
section
\in[extra].  \quotedash~nor, as above, add ones at the end of paragraphs.
\endash~he continued.
\stopsection

\startsection[title=Actual output]
\speech{Speech should always have a dash at the start, but none at the 
end of a
paragraph.}

\speech{Dialog asides should not duplicate dashes, \aside{he said.}} 
Also, note
the spacing isn't removed despite \type{\removeunwantedspaces}, but instead
duplicated.  \speech{nor, as above, add ones at the end of paragraphs.
\aside{he continued.}}
\stopsection

\startsection[title=Additional considerations and 
observations,reference=extra]
It would also be nice if a quote ending in a period carried the 
\quote{broad}
spacing to the other side of the (ending) quote dash |=| the dash before
\quote{Also} above would be packed on the left and broad on the right. 
I know
this might be a lot trickier to code, and only consider it a bonus.

The issue with \type{\removeunwantedspaces} only seems to affect the 
command
forms.  When inserted directly |<| as here |>| the spacing acts as 
desired in
the \cap{PDF} (as expected, the \cap{XML} doesn't understand the order). 
  Also,
the right \type{|>|} doesn't require either of the explicit spacing
instructions (beyond being non-breaking) while the others do; try 
switching the
commented lines and re-rendering.

The quotation dash itself only \emph{looks} as I want it; when I 
highlight and
copy the text or export it to the \cap{XML} backend, it's still two 
dashes next
to each other.  Instead, I'd like it to be the Unicode bar U+2015.  I'm not
sure if \TEX/\LUATEX\ allows that difference between appearance and 
interaction
(I do know \cap{PDF} does), so if there's some way of adding a new glyph 
to the
font |<| one that mimics the other dashes even if the font changes |>| 
I'd love
to actually use the proper codepoint.  As is, that doesn't work in the 
standard
font(s): [\char"2015].
\stopsection

\stoptext

I bet that Wolfgang has the answers to the speech setup so I'll do the 
font part. Assuming that you use context lmtx (the luametatex branch), 
you can use some of the new metafun magic.

\startMPcalculation{simplefun}

     vardef QuotationDash =
         draw image (
             interim linecap := squared ;
             save l ; l := 0.2 ;
             draw (l/2,2) -- (15-l/2,2) withpen pencircle scaled l ;
         )
     enddef ;

     lmt_registerglyphs [
         name     = "symbols",
         units    = 10,
         usecolor = true,
         width    = 15,
         height   = 2.1,
         depth    = 0,
     ] ;

     lmt_registerglyph [ category = "symbols", unicode = "0x2015", code 
= "QuotationDash ;" ] ;

\stopMPcalculation

\definefontfeature[default][default][metapost=symbols]

% \showglyphs

\starttext

\startlines
xx\endash        xx
xx\emdash        xx
xx\endash\emdash xx
xx\char"2015     xx
\stoplines

\stoptext

Keep in mind that when you use for instance pagella, that there already 
that glyph.

Hans


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Quotation dash issues with semantic markup

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Hans Hagen schrieb am 30.12.2019 um 10:19:
> On 12/30/2019 5:03 AM, Sam May wrote:
>
>
> \setuplanguage[en]
>     [leftquotation=\quotedash~,
>     rightquotation=~\quotedash,
>     leftsentence=\removeunwantedspaces~\endash\space,
>     midsentence=\removeunwantedspaces~\endash\space,
> %    leftsentence=\endash~,
> %    midsentence=~\endash,
>     rightsentence=~\endash]
> \define\quotedash{\emdash\endash}
>
> %\setupbackend[export=yes]
>
> \starttext
>
> \startsection[title=Introduction]
> Any of you able to help me get my quotation dashes into line when 
> automatically
> inserted by the semantic commands?  I'm sure a number of you look at 
> this style
> and cringe, but \cap{A.} I'm not looking for grammatical input, and 
> \cap{B.}
> I'm intending this for a non-English language where the quotation dash 
> (though
> still not most common) isn't as out of place.
> \stopsection
>
> \startsection[title=Desired rendering]
> \quotedash~Speech should always have a dash at the start, but none at 
> the end
> of a paragraph.
>
> \quotedash~Dialog asides should not duplicate dashes,~\endash\ he
> said.~\quotedash\ Also, this doesn't reflect the spacing mentioned in 
> section
> \in[extra].  \quotedash~nor, as above, add ones at the end of paragraphs.
> \endash~he continued.
> \stopsection
>
> \startsection[title=Actual output]
> \speech{Speech should always have a dash at the start, but none at the 
> end of a
> paragraph.}
>
> \speech{Dialog asides should not duplicate dashes, \aside{he said.}} 
> Also, note
> the spacing isn't removed despite \type{\removeunwantedspaces}, but 
> instead
> duplicated.  \speech{nor, as above, add ones at the end of paragraphs.
> \aside{he continued.}}
> \stopsection
>
> \startsection[title=Additional considerations and 
> observations,reference=extra]
> It would also be nice if a quote ending in a period carried the 
> \quote{broad}
> spacing to the other side of the (ending) quote dash |=| the dash before
> \quote{Also} above would be packed on the left and broad on the right. 
> I know
> this might be a lot trickier to code, and only consider it a bonus.
>
> The issue with \type{\removeunwantedspaces} only seems to affect the 
> command
> forms.  When inserted directly |<| as here |>| the spacing acts as 
> desired in
> the \cap{PDF} (as expected, the \cap{XML} doesn't understand the 
> order).  Also,
> the right \type{|>|} doesn't require either of the explicit spacing
> instructions (beyond being non-breaking) while the others do; try 
> switching the
> commented lines and re-rendering.
>
> The quotation dash itself only \emph{looks} as I want it; when I 
> highlight and
> copy the text or export it to the \cap{XML} backend, it's still two 
> dashes next
> to each other.  Instead, I'd like it to be the Unicode bar U+2015.  
> I'm not
> sure if \TEX/\LUATEX\ allows that difference between appearance and 
> interaction
> (I do know \cap{PDF} does), so if there's some way of adding a new 
> glyph to the
> font |<| one that mimics the other dashes even if the font changes |>| 
> I'd love
> to actually use the proper codepoint.  As is, that doesn't work in the 
> standard
> font(s): [\char"2015].
> \stopsection
>
> \stoptext
>
> I bet that Wolfgang has the answers to the speech setup so I'll do the 
> font part.

It's possible to use leaders to remove multiple dashes and also dashes 
at the end of a paragraph but this will only work for the PDF. A 
limitation is that you can't use the existing \speech and \aside 
commands because they use groups which prevents the removal of unwanted 
dashes.

\unprotect

\def\speech_dash
   {\setbox\scratchbox\hbox{\texthorizontalbar\space}%
    \leaders\copy\scratchbox\hskip\wd\scratchbox}

\def\speech_left
   {\ifhmode
      \removeunwantedspaces
    \else
      \dontleavehmode
    \fi
    \space\speech_dash}

\def\speech_right
   {\removeunwantedspaces
    \space\speech_dash}

%\define[1]\speech
%  {\speech_left#1\speech_right}

\unexpanded\def\speech
   {\speech_left
    \bgroup
    \aftergroup\speech_right
    \let\next=}

\def\aside_dash
   {\setbox\scratchbox\hbox{\endash\space}%
    \leaders\copy\scratchbox\hskip\wd\scratchbox}

\def\aside_left
   {\ifhmode
      \removeunwantedspaces
    \else
      \dontleavehmode
    \fi
    \space\aside_dash}

\def\aside_right
   {\space\aside_dash}

%\define[1]\aside
%  {\aside_left#1\aside_right}

\unexpanded\def\aside
   {\aside_left
    \bgroup
    \aftergroup\aside_right
    \let\next=}

\protect

\setupbodyfont[pagella]

\starttext

\speech{first speech} \speech{second speech}

\speech{first speech} no speech \speech{second speech}

\speech{first speech\aside{aside}} \speech{second speech}

\speech{speech \aside{aside}} no speech

\stoptext

Wolfgang

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Re: Quotation dash issues with semantic markup

[Hans Hagen]

On 1/17/2020 8:11 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

> It's possible to use leaders to remove multiple dashes and also dashes 
> at the end of a paragraph but this will only work for the PDF. A 
> limitation is that you can't use the existing \speech and \aside 
> commands because they use groups which prevents the removal of unwanted 
> dashes.
there's another trick that we can use ... i'll send you (ws) something 
to play with as we (you) might integrate it in the speech handler somehow

Hans

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                           Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
               Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
        tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
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___________________________________________________________________________________