* s6-ps @ 2019-01-04 9:18 Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard @ 2019-01-04 9:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Supervision * https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/492346/5132 It occurs to me that s6-ps would gain from having an "exe" column. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <9f647c4c-2dc3-b977-928c-ee164ba88afe@ntlworld.com>]
* Re: s6-ps [not found] <9f647c4c-2dc3-b977-928c-ee164ba88afe@ntlworld.com> @ 2019-01-05 0:20 ` Laurent Bercot 2019-01-05 4:04 ` s6-ps Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 2019-01-05 10:46 ` s6-ps Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Laurent Bercot @ 2019-01-05 0:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard, Supervision >It occurs to me that s6-ps would gain from having an "exe" column. That functionality: - isn't available in procps. I modelled the available columns from procps' ones. Although that doesn't mean much, because there are many more columns available now in recent versions of procps than there are in s6-ps. - requires an extra system call per process: a readlinkat() on "exe". I tried to limit the functionality to what can be read in the "stat" file. Using "comm" as well was unavoidable, but annoying. That said, if there's demand for it, I'm not opposed to adding a column for exe. I just wasn't aware of people besides me actually using s6-ps. :) -- Laurent ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: s6-ps 2019-01-05 0:20 ` s6-ps Laurent Bercot @ 2019-01-05 4:04 ` Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 2019-01-05 10:46 ` s6-ps Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard @ 2019-01-05 4:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Supervision Laurent Bercot: > That functionality: > - isn't available in procps. I think that you should not let that stop you. (-: Laurent Bercot: > I modelled the available columns from procps' ones. I think that you should not take that any further than you have already. This is the right point to stop. (-: You have a tool whose usage is a lot less messy, and a fair degree more straightforward, than that ps. You're fortunate *not* to have all of the quirky behaviours that I mentioned in the Stack Exchange answer. Having the three pieces of information in three columns with just three labels, without all of the ifs and buts, and having the environment strings be a column in their own right, and not an option that modifies another column's behaviour, is far simpler to explain. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: s6-ps 2019-01-05 0:20 ` s6-ps Laurent Bercot 2019-01-05 4:04 ` s6-ps Jonathan de Boyne Pollard @ 2019-01-05 10:46 ` Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 2019-01-05 14:41 ` s6-ps Jonathan de Boyne Pollard ` (2 more replies) 1 sibling, 3 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard @ 2019-01-05 10:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Supervision; +Cc: Shengjing Zhu Laurent Bercot: > I just wasn't aware of people besides me actually using s6-ps. :) I used it as an example of not being a mess. (-: s6 and s6-rc are actually ports/packages in FreeBSD and s6 is a package in Debian. Alas, the Debian world has not yet caught up with the other toolsets, and the third-party Debian packaging for s6-linux-utils and the others has yet to make it into Debian's own repository. * https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/sysutils/s6/ * https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/sysutils/s6-rc/ * https://packages.debian.org/sid/s6 * https://github.com/multiplexd/s6-packaging You could, in theory, make s6-ps not Linux-specific. It would require interposing a layer that abstracted reading the information out of the kernel, though. It's perhaps not worth it, because (for example) the FreeBSD ps is not nearly as encumbered by the mess that results from multiple personalities and Jack-of-All-Trades option parsing, albeit that it still has confusing column headings and does not have an env column. * https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/492513/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: s6-ps 2019-01-05 10:46 ` s6-ps Jonathan de Boyne Pollard @ 2019-01-05 14:41 ` Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 2019-01-05 15:29 ` s6-ps multiplexd 2019-01-05 21:00 ` s6-ps Guillermo 2 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Jonathan de Boyne Pollard @ 2019-01-05 14:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Supervision [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5525 bytes --] That said, I would probably write my own portable tool if it came to that, as my gripes with |ps| are not to everyone's tastes. * It is the 21st century. The FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD |ps| programs all use |-| as the command-line option introducer, and have done since /at least/ BSD 4.4 Lite in 1994 <https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd/blob/e3cfc8ce61f788739c66445d903f8beacb40c93d/bin/ps/ps.c#L133>. A "BSD personality" that gives me the interface from the 1980s is not /actually/ a BSD personality that gives me |ps| as it exists and as I use it on the BSDs. This is neither compatibility nor interoperability. * The defaults are wrong. Much of my GUI is processes that run in dæmon context. By default, I /want/ to see processes in sessions that have no controlling terminal. The |-x| option is the wrong way around. * The defaults are wrong. Most of the time I want to see all users' processes. The |-a| option is the wrong way around. (Yes, most of the time I want to "see processes from other users" in Windows, too.) * Indeed, even in the unusual case where I am interested in only my own processes, my own processes /include/ set-UID processes spawned by processes running as my account, such as |urxvtd|, which is /my/ Unicode rxvt dæmon. * The defaults are wrong. Most of the time I do not want to see kernel processes. * When I use both the |comm| and |args| columns, I don't need an extra copy of the former put in brackets in the latter. * When I use the |comm| and |args| columns with |f|, I don't need both columns to have the tree diagram added to them, especially as it usually then obscures what is in the actual column, that I wanted to see. Notice how FreeBSD |ps| only puts the tree diagram in if |args| is the last column. Do that. * Your "BSD personality" should be giving me |-d| anyway, not |f|, as that is the actual option on the BSDs. I don't want a tool with Multiple Personality Disorder and Jack-of-All-Trades option parsing, though. I want a |ps| tool that is self-consistent and logical, with /one/ personality across all of the platforms that it works on, and /one/ way of doing most things (albeit allowing both short and long command-line options). * In fact, give me the tree diagram as its own, first class, column, as well. * My terminal emulators speak UTF-8 and have switchable fonts. Their grave accent sometimes really looks like a grave accent; and their minus sign sometimes really looks like a minus sign. Give me proper line drawing characters. It's ridiculous giving me a "BSD personality" from the 1980s and yet a TUI that does not even do TUI line drawing as well as it was done on MS/PC/DR-DOS in the 1980s. * The defaults are wrong. It is the 21st century. I haven't used a terminal with only the choices of 80 or 132 columns in years. Stop giving me 132 columns as the primary alternative behaviour. * The Single UNIX Specification has standardized the |COLUMNS| environment variable as a way for me to tell you how many columns I want, for many years, now. Don't give me idiosyncratic command-line option mechanisms of your own. Don't give me "It's unspecified.". Give me the |COLUMNS| environment variable. * The defaults are wrong. I'm piping your output through |less|, which knows how to sideways scroll. Release your right margin when standard output is not a terminal device. I do not need the final column to be of "undefined" width. I need it to be defined, as having unlimited width. For any column type, not just one or two of them. * Indeed, if I am piping output give me the option of releasing the width restrictions on all columns, not just the last one. I might want to have both the |env| and |args| columns, with neither truncated. * Don't give me |-u| , |-v| , |-l| , |-f| , |-j| and tell me that they are "user", "virtual", "long", "full", and "jobs", especially if you aren't going to give me long options or aren't even going to document what those are. Give me at the least a |--format| option that takes |user|, |virtual|, |long|, |full|, and |jobs|. Indeed, give me a |--format| option that has /all/ of the shorthands from |procstat|. (But that, unlike |procstat|, can combine with |-o| and itself rather than give me a mutually-exclusive choice amongst things none of which are /quite/ what I want.) * In fact, give me just |--output| for selecting columns individually and |--format| for adding predefined handy sets of columns, and allow them to combine as I see fit. * Give me |--no-headers| too. * Give me the option of TAB rather than SPC as column separator whilst you are at it. Then I can run it through tools that understand tables-of-one-line-per-record-with-TAB-separated-fields text. (No, I'm not grepping the process tree. I'm handling table formatting with generic tools for the job rather with your idiosyncratic mechanisms.) Give me |strvis(VIS_CSTYLE|VIS_WHITE)| on the field contents, so that the TABs and other whitespace are unambiguous. Indeed, give me the option of US as the field separator and RS as the record separator, and I can run it through tools that understand those. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: s6-ps 2019-01-05 10:46 ` s6-ps Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 2019-01-05 14:41 ` s6-ps Jonathan de Boyne Pollard @ 2019-01-05 15:29 ` multiplexd 2019-01-05 21:00 ` s6-ps Guillermo 2 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: multiplexd @ 2019-01-05 15:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Supervision Hi all, (Apologies to JdePB, I accidentally replied to him directly instead of to the supervision list.) On Sat, Jan 05, 2019 at 10:46:29AM +0000, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard wrote: > Alas, the Debian world has not yet caught up with the other > toolsets, and the third-party Debian packaging for s6-linux-utils and the > others has yet to make it into Debian's own repository. > > * https://github.com/multiplexd/s6-packaging > Thanks for the advertising, Jonathan :-). I would, however, like to note that getting that packaging into the official Debian repos is not an immediate goal for me, as I don't have the time to commit to being a Debian package maintainer for the forseeable future. Cheers, --multiplexd. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: s6-ps 2019-01-05 10:46 ` s6-ps Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 2019-01-05 14:41 ` s6-ps Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 2019-01-05 15:29 ` s6-ps multiplexd @ 2019-01-05 21:00 ` Guillermo 2019-01-06 1:15 ` s6-ps Steve Litt 2019-01-06 7:06 ` s6-ps Colin Booth 2 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Guillermo @ 2019-01-05 21:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Supervision El sáb., 5 ene. 2019 a las 7:46, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard escribió: > > * https://packages.debian.org/sid/s6 And buster too. Which has the side effect of making it automatically available in Devuan ceres and beowulf :) * https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=s6_2.7&release=any I don't know why execline is a 'recommends' though. It should be a 'depends', I believe. G. G. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: s6-ps 2019-01-05 21:00 ` s6-ps Guillermo @ 2019-01-06 1:15 ` Steve Litt 2019-01-06 7:06 ` s6-ps Colin Booth 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Steve Litt @ 2019-01-06 1:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: supervision On Sat, 5 Jan 2019 18:00:57 -0300 Guillermo <gdiazhartusch@gmail.com> wrote: > I don't know why execline is a 'recommends' though. It should be a > 'depends', I believe. I set up a s6 supervisor using all shellscripts and no execline. You don't absolutely need execline. SteveT Steve Litt January 2019 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: s6-ps 2019-01-05 21:00 ` s6-ps Guillermo 2019-01-06 1:15 ` s6-ps Steve Litt @ 2019-01-06 7:06 ` Colin Booth 2019-01-06 7:30 ` s6-ps Laurent Bercot 1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Colin Booth @ 2019-01-06 7:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: supervision On Sat, Jan 05, 2019 at 06:00:57PM -0300, Guillermo wrote: > El sáb., 5 ene. 2019 a las 7:46, Jonathan de Boyne Pollard escribió: > > > > * https://packages.debian.org/sid/s6 > > And buster too. Which has the side effect of making it automatically > available in Devuan ceres and beowulf :) > > * https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=s6_2.7&release=any > > I don't know why execline is a 'recommends' though. It should be a > 'depends', I believe. > > G. libexecline is a runtime requirement for s6-log if linked dynamically. It's also a compile time requirement for roughly the same reason. Assuming a static (or mostly static) compilation of the s6 suite, execline is correctly marked as a recommendation. Looking at the package in Unstable, zhs has split libexecline from the execline binary suite and dynamically compiled things. Therefore, installing s6 forces installation of libexecline, libskarnet, and libs6, and recommends the execline bundle. Cheers! -- Colin Booth ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: s6-ps 2019-01-06 7:06 ` s6-ps Colin Booth @ 2019-01-06 7:30 ` Laurent Bercot 2019-01-06 18:07 ` s6-ps Colin Booth 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Laurent Bercot @ 2019-01-06 7:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: supervision - The execline library is required to build a few of s6's utilities (typically: s6-ftrig-listen). - The execlineb binary is required for use of the !processor directive in s6-log. - Some of the other binaries provided by execline are used by s6 utilities, for instance s6-fdholder-store. "Recommends" is a mistake. Without execline, parts of the s6 suite of programs will break. -- Laurent ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: s6-ps 2019-01-06 7:30 ` s6-ps Laurent Bercot @ 2019-01-06 18:07 ` Colin Booth 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Colin Booth @ 2019-01-06 18:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: supervision On Sun, Jan 06, 2019 at 07:30:21AM +0000, Laurent Bercot wrote: > > - The execline library is required to build a few of s6's utilities > (typically: s6-ftrig-listen). > - The execlineb binary is required for use of the !processor directive > in s6-log. > - Some of the other binaries provided by execline are used by > s6 utilities, for instance s6-fdholder-store. > Ah, good point. I was misremembering and thought s6-log processed the command string itself but used libexecline to teach it how, similar to s6-ftrig-listen's dependency. Looking a bit closer, the one that's going to break the hardest for people using s6 solely as a supervisor is s6-notifyoncheck since you can inline a check program with the -c option. I'm not sure how many people go that route who aren't already going to have execline installed, but it's something that will definitely cause some ill will. > > "Recommends" is a mistake. Without execline, parts of the s6 suite > of programs will break. > > -- > Laurent > -- Colin Booth ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2019-01-06 18:07 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2019-01-04 9:18 s6-ps Jonathan de Boyne Pollard [not found] <9f647c4c-2dc3-b977-928c-ee164ba88afe@ntlworld.com> 2019-01-05 0:20 ` s6-ps Laurent Bercot 2019-01-05 4:04 ` s6-ps Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 2019-01-05 10:46 ` s6-ps Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 2019-01-05 14:41 ` s6-ps Jonathan de Boyne Pollard 2019-01-05 15:29 ` s6-ps multiplexd 2019-01-05 21:00 ` s6-ps Guillermo 2019-01-06 1:15 ` s6-ps Steve Litt 2019-01-06 7:06 ` s6-ps Colin Booth 2019-01-06 7:30 ` s6-ps Laurent Bercot 2019-01-06 18:07 ` s6-ps Colin Booth
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