[pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD

[pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD

[Ian King]

I think I've done enough homework and legwork to feel like I can ask the
list a question now.  :-)  I've acquired an 11/73 and want to install
2.11BSD on it; it includes a TK50 and RX33.  I also have a DECstation
5000/200 with a TK50, so my first efforts were to dd the files onto a tape.
Depending on how I hacked around, I either got a "non-bootable media" error
or "Error 21 - drive error".  The two ways I tried to put the boot files on
were per the instructions (cat mtboot mtboot boot | dd), and not per the
instructions (dd mtboot, dd mtboot, dd boot).  Depending on how I hacked
around, I either got a "non-bootable media" error or "Error 21 - drive
error" from the boot ROM monitor.

With no way to troubleshoot the TK50 drive, I then tried to put at least a
boot sector on a 1.2MB floppy, using rawrite on a PC; I copied mtboot +
mtboot + boot to an intermediate file, then used rawrite to put that on the
floppy.  I got the same "Error 21".

The machine also has a working RD54 containing Micro/RSX and some
proprietary software for managing a parking lot.  :-)  I can boot to an RSX
prompt (although I can't log in, having none of the passwords), so most of
the machine appears to be working.

While there's a stubborn side that wants to figure out how to build bootable
media :-) I'd also be happy at this point to get a copy of a bootable TK50;
I have blank tapes....  Either way, I hope someone can point me in the right
direction.  Thanks in advance -- Ian

[pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD

[Robin Birch]

Use the maketape program in the sys/pdpstand directory.  You can build 
this on most things and use it to create a bootable tape with the 
standalone system which contains all of the tools to set the system up.

Cheers

Robin


In message <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac at dawabbit>, Ian King 
<iking at killthewabbit.org> writes
>I think I've done enough homework and legwork to feel like I can ask the
>list a question now.  :-)  I've acquired an 11/73 and want to install
>2.11BSD on it; it includes a TK50 and RX33.  I also have a DECstation
>5000/200 with a TK50, so my first efforts were to dd the files onto a tape.
>Depending on how I hacked around, I either got a "non-bootable media" error
>or "Error 21 - drive error".  The two ways I tried to put the boot files on
>were per the instructions (cat mtboot mtboot boot | dd), and not per the
>instructions (dd mtboot, dd mtboot, dd boot).  Depending on how I hacked
>around, I either got a "non-bootable media" error or "Error 21 - drive
>error" from the boot ROM monitor.
>
>With no way to troubleshoot the TK50 drive, I then tried to put at least a
>boot sector on a 1.2MB floppy, using rawrite on a PC; I copied mtboot +
>mtboot + boot to an intermediate file, then used rawrite to put that on the
>floppy.  I got the same "Error 21".
>
>The machine also has a working RD54 containing Micro/RSX and some
>proprietary software for managing a parking lot.  :-)  I can boot to an RSX
>prompt (although I can't log in, having none of the passwords), so most of
>the machine appears to be working.
>
>While there's a stubborn side that wants to figure out how to build bootable
>media :-) I'd also be happy at this point to get a copy of a bootable TK50;
>I have blank tapes....  Either way, I hope someone can point me in the right
>direction.  Thanks in advance -- Ian
>
>_______________________________________________
>PUPS mailing list
>PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
>http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

-- 
Robin Birch

[pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD

[David Evans]

On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 12:18:37AM -0800, Ian King wrote:
> I think I've done enough homework and legwork to feel like I can ask the
> list a question now.  :-)  I've acquired an 11/73 and want to install
> 2.11BSD on it; it includes a TK50 and RX33.

  Sounds like a fun box.

> The two ways I tried to put the boot files on
> were per the instructions (cat mtboot mtboot boot | dd), and not per the
> instructions (dd mtboot, dd mtboot, dd boot).

  Since I just went through this a few weeks ago, I'll mention that this won't
work because you won't ende up with the boot programmes aligned on block
boundaries.  The "maketape" command supposedly works well, and I made a tape
with it, but never did get around to trying to actually boot that tape.

> With no way to troubleshoot the TK50 drive, I then tried to put at least a
> boot sector on a 1.2MB floppy, using rawrite on a PC; I copied mtboot +
> mtboot + boot to an intermediate file, then used rawrite to put that on the
> floppy.  I got the same "Error 21".
> 

  I don't know whether that would do anything useful, since AFAIK the boot
blocks assume tape.

> While there's a stubborn side that wants to figure out how to build bootable
> media :-) I'd also be happy at this point to get a copy of a bootable TK50;
> I have blank tapes....

  Whereabouts are you?  Someone can likely help.

-- 
David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)             dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer
Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual

[pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD

[Chuck Dickman]

> Use the maketape program in the sys/pdpstand directory.  You can build
> this on most things and use it to create a bootable tape with the
> standalone system which contains all of the tools to set the system up.
>
> Cheers
>
> Robin Birch

Except I don't think the standalone system supports TMSCP and I think
that a TK50 is TMSCP.

-chuck

[pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD

[David Evans]

On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 09:11:50AM -0500, Chuck Dickman wrote:
> Except I don't think the standalone system supports TMSCP and I think
> that a TK50 is TMSCP.
> 

  The TK50 is definately TMSCP.  You sure that the standalone system
can't handle it (my machine is at home and turned off right now, so I
can't check anything)?  If so then that's a major PITA and I guess
some hacking is in order.

-- 
David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)             dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer
Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual

[pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD

[Chuck Dickman]

> On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 09:11:50AM -0500, Chuck Dickman wrote:
>> Except I don't think the standalone system supports TMSCP and I think
>> that a TK50 is TMSCP.
>>

I am wrong. :-( It _is_ supported. :-)

>   The TK50 is definately TMSCP.  You sure that the standalone system
> can't handle it (my machine is at home and turned off right now, so I
> can't check anything)?  If so then that's a major PITA and I guess some
> hacking is in order.

Thats what I get for not looking at the sources. From mtboot.s:

 * Primary tape boot program to load and execute secondary boot.

 * This is a universal tape boot which can handle HT, TM, TS and TMSCP
 * tapes.  This boot is FULL.  Some of the more extended error
 * checking had to be left out to get all the drivers to fit.

> David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)

-chuck

[pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD

[David Evans]

On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 09:57:45AM -0500, Chuck Dickman wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 09:11:50AM -0500, Chuck Dickman wrote:
> >> Except I don't think the standalone system supports TMSCP and I think
> >> that a TK50 is TMSCP.
> >>
> 
> I am wrong. :-( It _is_ supported. :-)
> 

  Phew!

-- 
David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)             dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer
Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual

[pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD

[Robin Birch]

In message 
<13943.209.143.24.164.1044627110.squirrel at www.chd.dyndns.org>, Chuck 
Dickman <chd_1 at nktelco.net> writes
>> Use the maketape program in the sys/pdpstand directory.  You can build
>> this on most things and use it to create a bootable tape with the
>> standalone system which contains all of the tools to set the system up.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Robin Birch
>
>Except I don't think the standalone system supports TMSCP and I think
>that a TK50 is TMSCP.
>
>-chuck
>
>
As you will have been told, it is supported, quite well in fact.  I have 
run 11/73s and 83s from TK50 and TMSCP exabyte drives for years and they 
work a treat.

You really need the maketape program.  You can then dd and tar the rest 
on to the tape but the initial step needs to be done the "official" way. 
To repeat a question already asked, where are you.  If you really can't 
get over this then someone nearby can hopefully cut you a tape.

Cheers

Robin
>
>_______________________________________________
>PUPS mailing list
>PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
>http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

-- 
Robin Birch

[pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD

[Ian King]

Yup, that's what I get for trying to be clever.  :-)  I built and ran
maketape, and the 11/73 likes the resulting tape (boots).  So I'm remaking
the tape with the tar's on it (per the instructions).

I also happened to look at my work email, and saw the recent thread on this
same subject - doh!

Maybe we should add something to the /2.11BSD distribution README with the
caveats we've learned?  -- Ian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Birch" <robinb@ruffnready.co.uk>
To: "Ian King" <iking at killthewabbit.org>
Cc: <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD


> Use the maketape program in the sys/pdpstand directory.  You can build
> this on most things and use it to create a bootable tape with the
> standalone system which contains all of the tools to set the system up.
>
> Cheers
>
> Robin
>
>
> In message <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac at dawabbit>, Ian King
> <iking at killthewabbit.org> writes
> >I think I've done enough homework and legwork to feel like I can ask the
> >list a question now.  :-)  I've acquired an 11/73 and want to install
> >2.11BSD on it; it includes a TK50 and RX33.  I also have a DECstation
> >5000/200 with a TK50, so my first efforts were to dd the files onto a
tape.
> >Depending on how I hacked around, I either got a "non-bootable media"
error
> >or "Error 21 - drive error".  The two ways I tried to put the boot files
on
> >were per the instructions (cat mtboot mtboot boot | dd), and not per the
> >instructions (dd mtboot, dd mtboot, dd boot).  Depending on how I hacked
> >around, I either got a "non-bootable media" error or "Error 21 - drive
> >error" from the boot ROM monitor.
> >
> >With no way to troubleshoot the TK50 drive, I then tried to put at least
a
> >boot sector on a 1.2MB floppy, using rawrite on a PC; I copied mtboot +
> >mtboot + boot to an intermediate file, then used rawrite to put that on
the
> >floppy.  I got the same "Error 21".
> >
> >The machine also has a working RD54 containing Micro/RSX and some
> >proprietary software for managing a parking lot.  :-)  I can boot to an
RSX
> >prompt (although I can't log in, having none of the passwords), so most
of
> >the machine appears to be working.
> >
> >While there's a stubborn side that wants to figure out how to build
bootable
> >media :-) I'd also be happy at this point to get a copy of a bootable
TK50;
> >I have blank tapes....  Either way, I hope someone can point me in the
right
> >direction.  Thanks in advance -- Ian
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >PUPS mailing list
> >PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
>
> --
> Robin Birch
>

Another happy customer (was Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD)

[Ian King]

It's amazing what happens when you follow the directions - thanks for your
help, folks.  I have 2.11BSD up and running on my 11/73 (booted off the
disk, even), and it's currently untarring the last big chunk of /usr/src.
(The docs mention that TK50s are slower than snot - believe it!)  The system
has two RD54s <woohoo!>, but I'm following the 'default' installation for
now until I have everything running and have successfully rebuilt the
kernel; then I'll probably move /usr and /tmp over to the second RD.  I also
need to dig into the machine a bit more - the bootloader tells me I have an
11/83, so I'm suspecting the CPU was changed at some point.

For the record, I live in Seattle, and I can now produce bootable TK50s with
2.11BSD.  :-)

-- Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian King" <iking@killthewabbit.org>
To: "Robin Birch" <robinb at ruffnready.co.uk>
Cc: <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD


> Yup, that's what I get for trying to be clever.  :-)  I built and ran
> maketape, and the 11/73 likes the resulting tape (boots).  So I'm remaking
> the tape with the tar's on it (per the instructions).
>
> I also happened to look at my work email, and saw the recent thread on
this
> same subject - doh!
>
> Maybe we should add something to the /2.11BSD distribution README with the
> caveats we've learned?  -- Ian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robin Birch" <robinb at ruffnready.co.uk>
> To: "Ian King" <iking at killthewabbit.org>
> Cc: <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 3:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD
>
>
> > Use the maketape program in the sys/pdpstand directory.  You can build
> > this on most things and use it to create a bootable tape with the
> > standalone system which contains all of the tools to set the system up.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Robin
> >
> >
[snip]
> >
> > --
> > Robin Birch
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

Another happy customer (was Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD)

[David Evans]

On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 10:48:36AM -0800, Ian King wrote:
> It's amazing what happens when you follow the directions - thanks for your
> help, folks.  I have 2.11BSD up and running on my 11/73 (booted off the
> disk, even), and it's currently untarring the last big chunk of /usr/src.

  Good job!

> I also
> need to dig into the machine a bit more - the bootloader tells me I have an
> 11/83, so I'm suspecting the CPU was changed at some point.
> 

  A KDJ-11B CPU board (quad height) with Qbus memory is an 11/73, while a
KDJ-11B CPU with PMI memory is an 11/83.  The boot loaded likely just
identifies the CPU board type and assumes a /83.  It would only claim a
/73 if it were running on a KDB-11 (dual height) card.

-- 
David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)             dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer
Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual