* [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix @ 2009-04-09 7:22 Warren Toomey 2009-04-09 13:21 ` John Cowan 2009-04-09 18:43 ` Doug Merritt 0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Warren Toomey @ 2009-04-09 7:22 UTC (permalink / raw) All, I've had two papers about early UNIX accepted. One is a paper about our 1st Edition UNIX restoration for the IEEE Journal of the History of Computing, and the second is a paper about several early UNIX restorations including 1st Ed for the Usenix 2009 technical conference. This means that I'll be attending the Usenix conference in San Diego in June, so if anybody else is attending I'd love to catch up with you guys. Cheers all and again thanks for all the hard work and the fantastic results! Warren Toomey ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix 2009-04-09 7:22 [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix Warren Toomey @ 2009-04-09 13:21 ` John Cowan 2009-04-09 14:47 ` M. Warner Losh 2009-04-09 18:43 ` Doug Merritt 1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: John Cowan @ 2009-04-09 13:21 UTC (permalink / raw) Warren Toomey scripsit: > I've had two papers about early UNIX accepted. One is a paper about our > 1st Edition UNIX restoration for the IEEE Journal of the History of Computing, > and the second is a paper about several early UNIX restorations including 1st > Ed for the Usenix 2009 technical conference. Will you be able to put preprints on your own site or somewhere, so we can read 'em without having to worry about the paywall? -- If you understand, John Cowan things are just as they are; http://www.ccil.org/~cowan if you do not understand, cowan at ccil.org things are just as they are. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix 2009-04-09 13:21 ` John Cowan @ 2009-04-09 14:47 ` M. Warner Losh 2009-04-10 7:44 ` Warren Toomey 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: M. Warner Losh @ 2009-04-09 14:47 UTC (permalink / raw) In message: <20090409132154.GC4909 at mercury.ccil.org> John Cowan <cowan at ccil.org> writes: : Warren Toomey scripsit: : : > I've had two papers about early UNIX accepted. One is a paper about our : > 1st Edition UNIX restoration for the IEEE Journal of the History of Computing, : > and the second is a paper about several early UNIX restorations including 1st : > Ed for the Usenix 2009 technical conference. : : Will you be able to put preprints on your own site or somewhere, so we can : read 'em without having to worry about the paywall? Clearly we'd make good reviewers for the papers :) Warner ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix 2009-04-09 14:47 ` M. Warner Losh @ 2009-04-10 7:44 ` Warren Toomey 2009-04-10 16:23 ` John Cowan 2009-04-10 16:31 ` John Cowan 0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Warren Toomey @ 2009-04-10 7:44 UTC (permalink / raw) On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 08:47:21AM -0600, M. Warner Losh wrote: > : Will you be able to put preprints on your own site or somewhere, so we can > : read 'em without having to worry about the paywall? > > Clearly we'd make good reviewers for the papers :) Here is a very early draft: http://minnie.tuhs.org/Z/usendraft.pdf. Lots of typos etc. Please don't distribute this. Read, and eat the bits afterwards. I will remove the document in a day or so. Cheers, Warren ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix 2009-04-10 7:44 ` Warren Toomey @ 2009-04-10 16:23 ` John Cowan 2009-04-10 17:21 ` M. Warner Losh ` (2 more replies) 2009-04-10 16:31 ` John Cowan 1 sibling, 3 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: John Cowan @ 2009-04-10 16:23 UTC (permalink / raw) Warren Toomey scripsit: > Here is a very early draft: http://minnie.tuhs.org/Z/usendraft.pdf. > Lots of typos etc. Thanks; fascinating! Do the Net-2-derived BSDs (including Darwin) really count as Unix-derived? I thought they were fairly free of AT&T code now, other than headers and the like. Conceptually, of course, they are Unix-derived, but then so is Linux. It would be snazzy to restore the classical typography of Unix as U<small>NIX</small> in your paper. -- John Cowan cowan at ccil.org http://www.ccil.org/~cowan Statistics don't help a great deal in making important decisions. Most people have more than the average number of feet, but I'm not about to start a company selling shoes in threes. --Ross Gardler ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix 2009-04-10 16:23 ` John Cowan @ 2009-04-10 17:21 ` M. Warner Losh 2009-04-10 20:31 ` Brad Parker 2009-04-10 22:28 ` Warren Toomey 2 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: M. Warner Losh @ 2009-04-10 17:21 UTC (permalink / raw) In message: <20090410162319.GB12970 at mercury.ccil.org> John Cowan <cowan at ccil.org> writes: : Warren Toomey scripsit: : : > Here is a very early draft: http://minnie.tuhs.org/Z/usendraft.pdf. : > Lots of typos etc. : : Thanks; fascinating! : : Do the Net-2-derived BSDs (including Darwin) really count as Unix-derived? Yes. : I thought they were fairly free of AT&T code now, other than headers and : the like. Conceptually, of course, they are Unix-derived, but then so : is Linux. There's 24 files that have AT&T copyright notice on them that are still present in the code. And there's dozens of files in SYS V that are bsd-derived that now have the proper UCB copyright notice. The link to Unix is direct and explicit in the 4.4-lite derived BSDs, unlike Linux, which has no AT&T code to speak of in it. Also, technically speaking, all the BSDs (including Darwin) are 4.4-lite derived these days, not net-2 derived, since all the projects switched to 4.4-lite as apart of the ucb/at&t settlement. See for example from FreeBSD: * Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993 * The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. * (c) UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. * All or some portions of this file are derived from material licensed * to the University of California by American Telephone and Telegraph * Co. or Unix System Laboratories, Inc. and are reproduced herein with * the permission of UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. * is found in: init_main.c kern_acct.c kern_clock.c kern_descrip.c kern_exit.c kern_fork.c kern_prot.c kern_resource.c kern_shutdown.c kern_sig.c kern_subr.c kern_synch.c kern_timeout.c sched_4bsd.c subr_param.c subr_prf.c sys_generic.c tty_info.c vfs_export.c vfs_lookup.c vfs_mount.c vfs_subr.c vfs_syscalls.c vfs_vnops.c All these files are explicitly OK based on the settlement of the UCB AT&T lawsuit. : It would be snazzy to restore the classical typography of Unix as : U<small>NIX</small> in your paper. That would be cool. Warner ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix 2009-04-10 16:23 ` John Cowan 2009-04-10 17:21 ` M. Warner Losh @ 2009-04-10 20:31 ` Brad Parker 2009-04-10 20:38 ` lyricalnanoha 2009-04-10 22:28 ` Warren Toomey 2 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Brad Parker @ 2009-04-10 20:31 UTC (permalink / raw) Nice job. I enjoyed reading it. John Cowan wrote: > >Do the Net-2-derived BSDs (including Darwin) really count as Unix-derived? I would agree with this. I think "Mach people" would bristle a little at that. They tend to think of unix as a bag they are forced to carry around. after reading the paper I wish I had an 11/20 to try and run v1 :-) A fun paper to read. I'm sure it will be well received. -brad ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix 2009-04-10 20:31 ` Brad Parker @ 2009-04-10 20:38 ` lyricalnanoha 2009-04-10 22:41 ` Warren Toomey 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: lyricalnanoha @ 2009-04-10 20:38 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, 10 Apr 2009, Brad Parker wrote: > > Nice job. I enjoyed reading it. > > John Cowan wrote: >> >> Do the Net-2-derived BSDs (including Darwin) really count as Unix-derived? > > I would agree with this. I think "Mach people" would bristle a little > at that. They tend to think of unix as a bag they are forced to carry > around. > > after reading the paper I wish I had an 11/20 to try and run v1 :-) Heh, yeah, certainly it wouldn't be very easy to get it up on something more familiar to *me*, like...an x86 :/ -uso. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix 2009-04-10 20:38 ` lyricalnanoha @ 2009-04-10 22:41 ` Warren Toomey 2009-04-10 22:51 ` lyricalnanoha 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Warren Toomey @ 2009-04-10 22:41 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 04:38:51PM -0400, lyricalnanoha wrote: > > after reading the paper I wish I had an 11/20 to try and run v1 :-) > > Heh, yeah, certainly it wouldn't be very easy to get it up on something > more familiar to *me*, like...an x86 :/ It should be relatively easy, as the Ersatz-11 emulator runs in DOS mode, so you could boot up MS-DOS or OpenDOS, run Ersatz-11 and then V1 on top! Or do you mean a native port :-) Warren ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix 2009-04-10 22:41 ` Warren Toomey @ 2009-04-10 22:51 ` lyricalnanoha 0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: lyricalnanoha @ 2009-04-10 22:51 UTC (permalink / raw) On Sat, 11 Apr 2009, Warren Toomey wrote: > On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 04:38:51PM -0400, lyricalnanoha wrote: >>> after reading the paper I wish I had an 11/20 to try and run v1 :-) >> >> Heh, yeah, certainly it wouldn't be very easy to get it up on something >> more familiar to *me*, like...an x86 :/ > > It should be relatively easy, as the Ersatz-11 emulator runs in DOS mode, > so you could boot up MS-DOS or OpenDOS, run Ersatz-11 and then V1 on top! > > Or do you mean a native port :-) Naturally, I mean native. Though perhaps, still on top of PC DOS. -uso. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix 2009-04-10 16:23 ` John Cowan 2009-04-10 17:21 ` M. Warner Losh 2009-04-10 20:31 ` Brad Parker @ 2009-04-10 22:28 ` Warren Toomey 2 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Warren Toomey @ 2009-04-10 22:28 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 12:23:19PM -0400, John Cowan wrote: > Do the Net-2-derived BSDs (including Darwin) really count as Unix-derived? > I thought they were fairly free of AT&T code now, other than headers and > the like. Conceptually, of course, they are Unix-derived, but then so > is Linux. I count "derived" as meaning that I can trace a continuous code lineage from one to the other. So V7 -> 32V -> 3BSD -> 4.xBSD -> 4.4BSD-Lite -> Open Src BSDs. But Linux isn't derived, in this sense. > It would be snazzy to restore the classical typography of Unix as > U<small>NIX</small> in your paper. I'm following the official trademark. I must admit that I dithered in each direction, but then decided to stick to the official, blessed version of the typography. Glad you guys liked the paper. Warren ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix 2009-04-10 7:44 ` Warren Toomey 2009-04-10 16:23 ` John Cowan @ 2009-04-10 16:31 ` John Cowan 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: John Cowan @ 2009-04-10 16:31 UTC (permalink / raw) Warren Toomey scripsit: [Sorry for the double reply; I zapped this part and sent.] > Please don't distribute this. Read, and eat the bits afterwards. I will > remove the document in a day or so. You do realize, I suppose, that due to the "packrat nature of computer enthusiasts", there will be plenty of copies of this early explication of the Classical School of Unix reclamation for software archaeologists to find ca. 2050? -- He played King Lear as though John Cowan <cowan at ccil.org> someone had played the ace. http://www.ccil.org/~cowan --Eugene Field ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix 2009-04-09 7:22 [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix Warren Toomey 2009-04-09 13:21 ` John Cowan @ 2009-04-09 18:43 ` Doug Merritt 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Doug Merritt @ 2009-04-09 18:43 UTC (permalink / raw) > I've had two papers about early UNIX accepted. One is a paper about our >1st Edition UNIX restoration for the IEEE Journal of the History of Computing, >and the second is a paper about several early UNIX restorations including 1st >Ed for the Usenix 2009 technical conference. Excellent, congrats! I've been meaning to ask you what was up with your papers. >This means that I'll be attending the Usenix conference in San Diego in >June, so if anybody else is attending I'd love to catch up with you guys. I haven't done Usenix in perhaps 20 years, but maybe I should just for this. >Cheers all and again thanks for all the hard work and the fantastic results! Indeed, thanks to one and all! Doug -- Professional Wild-eyed Visionary Member, Crusaders for a Better Tomorrow ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-04-10 22:51 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2009-04-09 7:22 [Unix-jun72] Early UNIX: papers & Usenix Warren Toomey 2009-04-09 13:21 ` John Cowan 2009-04-09 14:47 ` M. Warner Losh 2009-04-10 7:44 ` Warren Toomey 2009-04-10 16:23 ` John Cowan 2009-04-10 17:21 ` M. Warner Losh 2009-04-10 20:31 ` Brad Parker 2009-04-10 20:38 ` lyricalnanoha 2009-04-10 22:41 ` Warren Toomey 2009-04-10 22:51 ` lyricalnanoha 2009-04-10 22:28 ` Warren Toomey 2009-04-10 16:31 ` John Cowan 2009-04-09 18:43 ` Doug Merritt
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