[TUHS] DG/UX user/admin around?

[TUHS] DG/UX user/admin around?

[DG UX]

Sorry to bother you all with my questions over this ancient machine
and my failing trials with it..
Trying to get a DGUX system (Intel based) to work, as is, on a 'regular' x86 PC.

Just a couple of things :

1. I did find out that that DG machine is looking for an Adaptec PCI
SCSI Controller, and so I got an AHA-2940UW PCI card, installed it in
an old PC, got a matching 9GB HDD and booted it up from my image I've
'DD'ed from the original DG machine.
Boot prompt came up and said it's trying to load
sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3
it didn't, no error msg, just gave me back a "Boot command:" prompt.
Bootpath of the original machine is sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3.
The disk drive parameters are correct, according to the docs, its -
dev(ctrl(pci[pci_num]),slot[,func_num[,ctrl_id]])[,dev_id[,LUN]]).
I've checked the PCI slot in which I installed the card, it's 3, and
so I've tried '3' instead of 'd' in the command above, just got the
boot prompt back again.
Also tried - sd(apsc(pci(),3),0)root:/dgux -3  which should also work
according to the docs (all other params are default).
Tried to play with it and tried tons of combinations, just for the
heck of it, still nothing. If I do type in some nonsense it does give
me an error msg : "Error: No device specifications found in the boot
command. Invalid boot command line".
According to the docs, once I get the correct syntax, the system should load up.
Anyone got any advice about that?

2.   Anyone here a/was a DG/UX user/admin? you guys are very hard to find :)

Thanks,
D'

[TUHS] DG/UX user/admin around?

[Natalia Portillo]

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Hi,

Just a question.

How did you checked the PCI bus and slot numbers?
Counting physically on the motherboard?

If this is the case you're doing it wrong.

The chipset could have various buses and slot numbers and so what appears physically to be slot 0 can easily be bus 2 slot 6.

El 11/08/2010, a las 15:14, DG UX escribió:

> Sorry to bother you all with my questions over this ancient machine
> and my failing trials with it..
> Trying to get a DGUX system (Intel based) to work, as is, on a 'regular' x86 PC.
> 
> Just a couple of things :
> 
> 1. I did find out that that DG machine is looking for an Adaptec PCI
> SCSI Controller, and so I got an AHA-2940UW PCI card, installed it in
> an old PC, got a matching 9GB HDD and booted it up from my image I've
> 'DD'ed from the original DG machine.
> Boot prompt came up and said it's trying to load
> sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3
> it didn't, no error msg, just gave me back a "Boot command:" prompt.
> Bootpath of the original machine is sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3.
> The disk drive parameters are correct, according to the docs, its -
> dev(ctrl(pci[pci_num]),slot[,func_num[,ctrl_id]])[,dev_id[,LUN]]).
> I've checked the PCI slot in which I installed the card, it's 3, and
> so I've tried '3' instead of 'd' in the command above, just got the
> boot prompt back again.
> Also tried - sd(apsc(pci(),3),0)root:/dgux -3  which should also work
> according to the docs (all other params are default).
> Tried to play with it and tried tons of combinations, just for the
> heck of it, still nothing. If I do type in some nonsense it does give
> me an error msg : "Error: No device specifications found in the boot
> command. Invalid boot command line".
> According to the docs, once I get the correct syntax, the system should load up.
> Anyone got any advice about that?
> 
> 2.   Anyone here a/was a DG/UX user/admin? you guys are very hard to find :)
> 
> Thanks,
> D'
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

[TUHS] DG/UX user/admin around?

[DG UX]

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I've tried 3 things:

1. Board shows "PCI3"
2. Linux LiveCD says PCI slot 3
3. I've tried a million combinations, just for the heck of it. None worked.

And also, as I said, in case there is only 1 adapter it should
automatically default and I cant shorthand it, as -
sd(apsc(pci(),3),0)root
Of course that as for the controller ID it is 7 - as shown by the
Adaptec management tool and the device ID is 1 (or 0), depending on
where I put it's jumper and also shown by mgmt tool at boot.

Got any other ideas of how to verify bus/slot?


On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:01 AM, Natalia Portillo <claunia at claunia.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just a question.
>
> How did you checked the PCI bus and slot numbers?
> Counting physically on the motherboard?
>
> If this is the case you're doing it wrong.
>
> The chipset could have various buses and slot numbers and so what appears physically to be slot 0 can easily be bus 2 slot 6.
>
> El 11/08/2010, a las 15:14, DG UX escribió:
>
>> Sorry to bother you all with my questions over this ancient machine
>> and my failing trials with it..
>> Trying to get a DGUX system (Intel based) to work, as is, on a 'regular' x86 PC.
>>
>> Just a couple of things :
>>
>> 1. I did find out that that DG machine is looking for an Adaptec PCI
>> SCSI Controller, and so I got an AHA-2940UW PCI card, installed it in
>> an old PC, got a matching 9GB HDD and booted it up from my image I've
>> 'DD'ed from the original DG machine.
>> Boot prompt came up and said it's trying to load
>> sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3
>> it didn't, no error msg, just gave me back a "Boot command:" prompt.
>> Bootpath of the original machine is sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3.
>> The disk drive parameters are correct, according to the docs, its -
>> dev(ctrl(pci[pci_num]),slot[,func_num[,ctrl_id]])[,dev_id[,LUN]]).
>> I've checked the PCI slot in which I installed the card, it's 3, and
>> so I've tried '3' instead of 'd' in the command above, just got the
>> boot prompt back again.
>> Also tried - sd(apsc(pci(),3),0)root:/dgux -3  which should also work
>> according to the docs (all other params are default).
>> Tried to play with it and tried tons of combinations, just for the
>> heck of it, still nothing. If I do type in some nonsense it does give
>> me an error msg : "Error: No device specifications found in the boot
>> command. Invalid boot command line".
>> According to the docs, once I get the correct syntax, the system should load up.
>> Anyone got any advice about that?
>>
>> 2.   Anyone here a/was a DG/UX user/admin? you guys are very hard to find :)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> D'
>> _______________________________________________
>> TUHS mailing list
>> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
>

[TUHS] DG/UX user/admin around?

[Natalia Portillo]

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Use lspci -v on the Linux LiveCD to be sure that bus, slot, function and controller number are correct.

El 24/08/2010, a las 15:44, DG UX escribió:

> I've tried 3 things:
> 
> 1. Board shows "PCI3"
> 2. Linux LiveCD says PCI slot 3
> 3. I've tried a million combinations, just for the heck of it. None worked.
> 
> And also, as I said, in case there is only 1 adapter it should
> automatically default and I cant shorthand it, as -
> sd(apsc(pci(),3),0)root
> Of course that as for the controller ID it is 7 - as shown by the
> Adaptec management tool and the device ID is 1 (or 0), depending on
> where I put it's jumper and also shown by mgmt tool at boot.
> 
> Got any other ideas of how to verify bus/slot?
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:01 AM, Natalia Portillo <claunia at claunia.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Just a question.
>> 
>> How did you checked the PCI bus and slot numbers?
>> Counting physically on the motherboard?
>> 
>> If this is the case you're doing it wrong.
>> 
>> The chipset could have various buses and slot numbers and so what appears physically to be slot 0 can easily be bus 2 slot 6.
>> 
>> El 11/08/2010, a las 15:14, DG UX escribió:
>> 
>>> Sorry to bother you all with my questions over this ancient machine
>>> and my failing trials with it..
>>> Trying to get a DGUX system (Intel based) to work, as is, on a 'regular' x86 PC.
>>> 
>>> Just a couple of things :
>>> 
>>> 1. I did find out that that DG machine is looking for an Adaptec PCI
>>> SCSI Controller, and so I got an AHA-2940UW PCI card, installed it in
>>> an old PC, got a matching 9GB HDD and booted it up from my image I've
>>> 'DD'ed from the original DG machine.
>>> Boot prompt came up and said it's trying to load
>>> sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3
>>> it didn't, no error msg, just gave me back a "Boot command:" prompt.
>>> Bootpath of the original machine is sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3.
>>> The disk drive parameters are correct, according to the docs, its -
>>> dev(ctrl(pci[pci_num]),slot[,func_num[,ctrl_id]])[,dev_id[,LUN]]).
>>> I've checked the PCI slot in which I installed the card, it's 3, and
>>> so I've tried '3' instead of 'd' in the command above, just got the
>>> boot prompt back again.
>>> Also tried - sd(apsc(pci(),3),0)root:/dgux -3  which should also work
>>> according to the docs (all other params are default).
>>> Tried to play with it and tried tons of combinations, just for the
>>> heck of it, still nothing. If I do type in some nonsense it does give
>>> me an error msg : "Error: No device specifications found in the boot
>>> command. Invalid boot command line".
>>> According to the docs, once I get the correct syntax, the system should load up.
>>> Anyone got any advice about that?
>>> 
>>> 2.   Anyone here a/was a DG/UX user/admin? you guys are very hard to find :)
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> D'
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TUHS mailing list
>>> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
>>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>> 
>> 

[TUHS] DG/UX user/admin around?

[DG UX]

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Yeah, tried that, even with -vvv. Got :

01:09.0 SCSI storage controller: Adaptec AHA-2940U/UW/D / AIC-7881U
        Control: I/O- Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV+ VGASnoop-
ParErr- Stepping- SERR+ FastB2B-
        Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium
>TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR-
        Latency: 64 (2000ns min, 2000ns max), Cache Line Size: 64 bytes
        Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 16
        Region 0: I/O ports at ec00 [disabled] [size=256]
        Region 1: Memory at ff8ff000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
        Expansion ROM at 30000000 [disabled] [size=64K]

That means that is bus 01, device 09, and function 0. Correct? That means that
dev(ctrl(pci[pci_num]),slot[,func_num[,ctrl_id]])[,dev_id[,LUN]])    ==
sd(apsc(pci(0),3,0,7),9,0) ?

I think that ctrl_id is my Adaptec adapter (7, according to Adaptec
mgmt) and dev_id is my SCSI HDD = 1 according to jumper setting and
Adaptet mgmt).


Also dmidecode shows PCI3 as the only one that is 'in use'.

Handle 0x0903, DMI type 9, 13 bytes
System Slot Information
        Designation: PCI3
        Type: 32-bit PCI
        Current Usage: In Use
        Length: Long
        ID: 3
        Characteristics:
                5.0 V is provided
                3.3 V is provided
                PME signal is supported



Thanks



On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Natalia Portillo <claunia at claunia.com> wrote:
> Use lspci -v on the Linux LiveCD to be sure that bus, slot, function and controller number are correct.
>
> El 24/08/2010, a las 15:44, DG UX escribió:
>
>> I've tried 3 things:
>>
>> 1. Board shows "PCI3"
>> 2. Linux LiveCD says PCI slot 3
>> 3. I've tried a million combinations, just for the heck of it. None worked.
>>
>> And also, as I said, in case there is only 1 adapter it should
>> automatically default and I cant shorthand it, as -
>> sd(apsc(pci(),3),0)root
>> Of course that as for the controller ID it is 7 - as shown by the
>> Adaptec management tool and the device ID is 1 (or 0), depending on
>> where I put it's jumper and also shown by mgmt tool at boot.
>>
>> Got any other ideas of how to verify bus/slot?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:01 AM, Natalia Portillo <claunia at claunia.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Just a question.
>>>
>>> How did you checked the PCI bus and slot numbers?
>>> Counting physically on the motherboard?
>>>
>>> If this is the case you're doing it wrong.
>>>
>>> The chipset could have various buses and slot numbers and so what appears physically to be slot 0 can easily be bus 2 slot 6.
>>>
>>> El 11/08/2010, a las 15:14, DG UX escribió:
>>>
>>>> Sorry to bother you all with my questions over this ancient machine
>>>> and my failing trials with it..
>>>> Trying to get a DGUX system (Intel based) to work, as is, on a 'regular' x86 PC.
>>>>
>>>> Just a couple of things :
>>>>
>>>> 1. I did find out that that DG machine is looking for an Adaptec PCI
>>>> SCSI Controller, and so I got an AHA-2940UW PCI card, installed it in
>>>> an old PC, got a matching 9GB HDD and booted it up from my image I've
>>>> 'DD'ed from the original DG machine.
>>>> Boot prompt came up and said it's trying to load
>>>> sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3
>>>> it didn't, no error msg, just gave me back a "Boot command:" prompt.
>>>> Bootpath of the original machine is sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3.
>>>> The disk drive parameters are correct, according to the docs, its -
>>>> dev(ctrl(pci[pci_num]),slot[,func_num[,ctrl_id]])[,dev_id[,LUN]]).
>>>> I've checked the PCI slot in which I installed the card, it's 3, and
>>>> so I've tried '3' instead of 'd' in the command above, just got the
>>>> boot prompt back again.
>>>> Also tried - sd(apsc(pci(),3),0)root:/dgux -3  which should also work
>>>> according to the docs (all other params are default).
>>>> Tried to play with it and tried tons of combinations, just for the
>>>> heck of it, still nothing. If I do type in some nonsense it does give
>>>> me an error msg : "Error: No device specifications found in the boot
>>>> command. Invalid boot command line".
>>>> According to the docs, once I get the correct syntax, the system should load up.
>>>> Anyone got any advice about that?
>>>>
>>>> 2.   Anyone here a/was a DG/UX user/admin? you guys are very hard to find :)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> D'
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TUHS mailing list
>>>> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
>>>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>>>
>>>
>
>

[TUHS] DG/UX user/admin around?

[M. Warner Losh]

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In message: <AANLkTi=VKwYCAW-+qE0=ijRQk5O0ci1abjWwT326GRXU at mail.gmail.com>
            DG UX <dgunix at gmail.com> writes:
: Yeah, tried that, even with -vvv. Got :
:
: 01:09.0 SCSI storage controller: Adaptec AHA-2940U/UW/D / AIC-7881U
:         Control: I/O- Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV+ VGASnoop-
: ParErr- Stepping- SERR+ FastB2B-
:         Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium
: >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR-
:         Latency: 64 (2000ns min, 2000ns max), Cache Line Size: 64 bytes
:         Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 16
:         Region 0: I/O ports at ec00 [disabled] [size=256]
:         Region 1: Memory at ff8ff000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
:         Expansion ROM at 30000000 [disabled] [size=64K]
: 
: That means that is bus 01, device 09, and function 0. Correct? That means that
: dev(ctrl(pci[pci_num]),slot[,func_num[,ctrl_id]])[,dev_id[,LUN]])    ==
: sd(apsc(pci(0),3,0,7),9,0) ?

bus is going to be 1 here.  slot == device since it makes little sense
to mix scsi and pci IDs in that part of the string to me and
bus:dev:func is fairly standard notation (with variation in
punctionation) and dev_id would be 1, since that's the SCSI ID (where
it does make sense to use scsi IDs).

: I think that ctrl_id is my Adaptec adapter (7, according to Adaptec
: mgmt) and dev_id is my SCSI HDD = 1 according to jumper setting and
: Adaptet mgmt).

I don't think that ctrl_id is 7.  Your SCSI ID for the controller on
the scsi bus is 7, but the SCSI ID for all controllers is 7.  If you
had a dual channel scsi card, you'd have to distinguish channel A from
channel B, and that's usually going to be encoded 0/1 or 1/2 (more
typically the former, but I don't know DGUX specifically).

So wouldn't that be sd(apsc(pci1),9,0,0),1,0) or more simply
sd(apsc(pci1),9),1)?  Hmmm, the above expression has too few ) so I'm
thinking based on the original boot command, it should be either
sd(apsc(pci(1),9,0,0),1,0) or more simply sd(apsc(pci(1),9),1)

Maybe this will be helpful.  But that's just a shot in the dark.
There also appears to be a PCI bridge in the new system that isn't in
the old system, since the card is on pci bus 1 and the boot loader is
looking for it on pci bus 0.  This likely isn't a huge deal since the
BIOS of that vintage PC will initialize the bridge correctly.

Warner

: Also dmidecode shows PCI3 as the only one that is 'in use'.
: 
: Handle 0x0903, DMI type 9, 13 bytes
: System Slot Information
:         Designation: PCI3
:         Type: 32-bit PCI
:         Current Usage: In Use
:         Length: Long
:         ID: 3
:         Characteristics:
:                 5.0 V is provided
:                 3.3 V is provided
:                 PME signal is supported
: 
: 
: 
: Thanks
: 
: 
: 
: On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Natalia Portillo <claunia at claunia.com> wrote:
: > Use lspci -v on the Linux LiveCD to be sure that bus, slot, function and controller number are correct.
: >
: > El 24/08/2010, a las 15:44, DG UX escribió:
: >
: >> I've tried 3 things:
: >>
: >> 1. Board shows "PCI3"
: >> 2. Linux LiveCD says PCI slot 3
: >> 3. I've tried a million combinations, just for the heck of it. None worked.
: >>
: >> And also, as I said, in case there is only 1 adapter it should
: >> automatically default and I cant shorthand it, as -
: >> sd(apsc(pci(),3),0)root
: >> Of course that as for the controller ID it is 7 - as shown by the
: >> Adaptec management tool and the device ID is 1 (or 0), depending on
: >> where I put it's jumper and also shown by mgmt tool at boot.
: >>
: >> Got any other ideas of how to verify bus/slot?
: >>
: >>
: >> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:01 AM, Natalia Portillo <claunia at claunia.com> wrote:
: >>> Hi,
: >>>
: >>> Just a question.
: >>>
: >>> How did you checked the PCI bus and slot numbers?
: >>> Counting physically on the motherboard?
: >>>
: >>> If this is the case you're doing it wrong.
: >>>
: >>> The chipset could have various buses and slot numbers and so what appears physically to be slot 0 can easily be bus 2 slot 6.
: >>>
: >>> El 11/08/2010, a las 15:14, DG UX escribió:
: >>>
: >>>> Sorry to bother you all with my questions over this ancient machine
: >>>> and my failing trials with it..
: >>>> Trying to get a DGUX system (Intel based) to work, as is, on a 'regular' x86 PC.
: >>>>
: >>>> Just a couple of things :
: >>>>
: >>>> 1. I did find out that that DG machine is looking for an Adaptec PCI
: >>>> SCSI Controller, and so I got an AHA-2940UW PCI card, installed it in
: >>>> an old PC, got a matching 9GB HDD and booted it up from my image I've
: >>>> 'DD'ed from the original DG machine.
: >>>> Boot prompt came up and said it's trying to load
: >>>> sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3
: >>>> it didn't, no error msg, just gave me back a "Boot command:" prompt.
: >>>> Bootpath of the original machine is sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3.
: >>>> The disk drive parameters are correct, according to the docs, its -
: >>>> dev(ctrl(pci[pci_num]),slot[,func_num[,ctrl_id]])[,dev_id[,LUN]]).
: >>>> I've checked the PCI slot in which I installed the card, it's 3, and
: >>>> so I've tried '3' instead of 'd' in the command above, just got the
: >>>> boot prompt back again.
: >>>> Also tried - sd(apsc(pci(),3),0)root:/dgux -3  which should also work
: >>>> according to the docs (all other params are default).
: >>>> Tried to play with it and tried tons of combinations, just for the
: >>>> heck of it, still nothing. If I do type in some nonsense it does give
: >>>> me an error msg : "Error: No device specifications found in the boot
: >>>> command. Invalid boot command line".
: >>>> According to the docs, once I get the correct syntax, the system should load up.
: >>>> Anyone got any advice about that?
: >>>>
: >>>> 2.   Anyone here a/was a DG/UX user/admin? you guys are very hard to find :)
: >>>>
: >>>> Thanks,
: >>>> D'
: >>>> _______________________________________________
: >>>> TUHS mailing list
: >>>> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
: >>>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
: >>>
: >>>
: >
: >
: _______________________________________________
: TUHS mailing list
: TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
: https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
: 
: 

[TUHS] DG/UX user/admin around?

[DG UX]

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According to the docs, there are ranges to those parameters :

sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),0,0)

sd = scsi disk
apsc = scsi controller
PCI = pci host bridge
0 = pci host bridge number. 0= primary. 1=secondary
d = PCI slot number 0-1F
0 = PCI function number 0-7
7 - Controller SCSI ID - 0-F
0 - Device SCSI ID 0=disk 2=tape 4=cdrom
0 - LUN number - 0-1F


from what I gathered, I know this to be 100% guaranteed:
sd(apsc(pci(?),?,0,?),?,0)

first "?" is pci bridge which is assumed to be primary (0).
The last "?" is the device SCSI ID which seems odd,  the initial
command says "1" and here it doesn't even fit. Only 0,2 and 4.
Of course I've tried all both of the options M. Warnet Losh suggested,
still getting nothing.

Seems strange.
What do you guys think?



On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 5:29 PM, M. Warner Losh <imp at bsdimp.com> wrote:
> In message: <AANLkTi=VKwYCAW-+qE0=ijRQk5O0ci1abjWwT326GRXU at mail.gmail.com>
>            DG UX <dgunix at gmail.com> writes:
> : Yeah, tried that, even with -vvv. Got :
> :
> : 01:09.0 SCSI storage controller: Adaptec AHA-2940U/UW/D / AIC-7881U
> :         Control: I/O- Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV+ VGASnoop-
> : ParErr- Stepping- SERR+ FastB2B-
> :         Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium
> : >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR-
> :         Latency: 64 (2000ns min, 2000ns max), Cache Line Size: 64 bytes
> :         Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 16
> :         Region 0: I/O ports at ec00 [disabled] [size=256]
> :         Region 1: Memory at ff8ff000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
> :         Expansion ROM at 30000000 [disabled] [size=64K]
> :
> : That means that is bus 01, device 09, and function 0. Correct? That means that
> : dev(ctrl(pci[pci_num]),slot[,func_num[,ctrl_id]])[,dev_id[,LUN]])    ==
> : sd(apsc(pci(0),3,0,7),9,0) ?
>
> bus is going to be 1 here.  slot == device since it makes little sense
> to mix scsi and pci IDs in that part of the string to me and
> bus:dev:func is fairly standard notation (with variation in
> punctionation) and dev_id would be 1, since that's the SCSI ID (where
> it does make sense to use scsi IDs).
>
> : I think that ctrl_id is my Adaptec adapter (7, according to Adaptec
> : mgmt) and dev_id is my SCSI HDD = 1 according to jumper setting and
> : Adaptet mgmt).
>
> I don't think that ctrl_id is 7.  Your SCSI ID for the controller on
> the scsi bus is 7, but the SCSI ID for all controllers is 7.  If you
> had a dual channel scsi card, you'd have to distinguish channel A from
> channel B, and that's usually going to be encoded 0/1 or 1/2 (more
> typically the former, but I don't know DGUX specifically).
>
> So wouldn't that be sd(apsc(pci1),9,0,0),1,0) or more simply
> sd(apsc(pci1),9),1)?  Hmmm, the above expression has too few ) so I'm
> thinking based on the original boot command, it should be either
> sd(apsc(pci(1),9,0,0),1,0) or more simply sd(apsc(pci(1),9),1)
>
> Maybe this will be helpful.  But that's just a shot in the dark.
> There also appears to be a PCI bridge in the new system that isn't in
> the old system, since the card is on pci bus 1 and the boot loader is
> looking for it on pci bus 0.  This likely isn't a huge deal since the
> BIOS of that vintage PC will initialize the bridge correctly.
>
> Warner
>
> : Also dmidecode shows PCI3 as the only one that is 'in use'.
> :
> : Handle 0x0903, DMI type 9, 13 bytes
> : System Slot Information
> :         Designation: PCI3
> :         Type: 32-bit PCI
> :         Current Usage: In Use
> :         Length: Long
> :         ID: 3
> :         Characteristics:
> :                 5.0 V is provided
> :                 3.3 V is provided
> :                 PME signal is supported
> :
> :
> :
> : Thanks
> :
> :
> :
> : On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Natalia Portillo <claunia at claunia.com> wrote:
> : > Use lspci -v on the Linux LiveCD to be sure that bus, slot, function and controller number are correct.
> : >
> : > El 24/08/2010, a las 15:44, DG UX escribió:
> : >
> : >> I've tried 3 things:
> : >>
> : >> 1. Board shows "PCI3"
> : >> 2. Linux LiveCD says PCI slot 3
> : >> 3. I've tried a million combinations, just for the heck of it. None worked.
> : >>
> : >> And also, as I said, in case there is only 1 adapter it should
> : >> automatically default and I cant shorthand it, as -
> : >> sd(apsc(pci(),3),0)root
> : >> Of course that as for the controller ID it is 7 - as shown by the
> : >> Adaptec management tool and the device ID is 1 (or 0), depending on
> : >> where I put it's jumper and also shown by mgmt tool at boot.
> : >>
> : >> Got any other ideas of how to verify bus/slot?
> : >>
> : >>
> : >> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:01 AM, Natalia Portillo <claunia at claunia.com> wrote:
> : >>> Hi,
> : >>>
> : >>> Just a question.
> : >>>
> : >>> How did you checked the PCI bus and slot numbers?
> : >>> Counting physically on the motherboard?
> : >>>
> : >>> If this is the case you're doing it wrong.
> : >>>
> : >>> The chipset could have various buses and slot numbers and so what appears physically to be slot 0 can easily be bus 2 slot 6.
> : >>>
> : >>> El 11/08/2010, a las 15:14, DG UX escribió:
> : >>>
> : >>>> Sorry to bother you all with my questions over this ancient machine
> : >>>> and my failing trials with it..
> : >>>> Trying to get a DGUX system (Intel based) to work, as is, on a 'regular' x86 PC.
> : >>>>
> : >>>> Just a couple of things :
> : >>>>
> : >>>> 1. I did find out that that DG machine is looking for an Adaptec PCI
> : >>>> SCSI Controller, and so I got an AHA-2940UW PCI card, installed it in
> : >>>> an old PC, got a matching 9GB HDD and booted it up from my image I've
> : >>>> 'DD'ed from the original DG machine.
> : >>>> Boot prompt came up and said it's trying to load
> : >>>> sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3
> : >>>> it didn't, no error msg, just gave me back a "Boot command:" prompt.
> : >>>> Bootpath of the original machine is sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3.
> : >>>> The disk drive parameters are correct, according to the docs, its -
> : >>>> dev(ctrl(pci[pci_num]),slot[,func_num[,ctrl_id]])[,dev_id[,LUN]]).
> : >>>> I've checked the PCI slot in which I installed the card, it's 3, and
> : >>>> so I've tried '3' instead of 'd' in the command above, just got the
> : >>>> boot prompt back again.
> : >>>> Also tried - sd(apsc(pci(),3),0)root:/dgux -3  which should also work
> : >>>> according to the docs (all other params are default).
> : >>>> Tried to play with it and tried tons of combinations, just for the
> : >>>> heck of it, still nothing. If I do type in some nonsense it does give
> : >>>> me an error msg : "Error: No device specifications found in the boot
> : >>>> command. Invalid boot command line".
> : >>>> According to the docs, once I get the correct syntax, the system should load up.
> : >>>> Anyone got any advice about that?
> : >>>>
> : >>>> 2.   Anyone here a/was a DG/UX user/admin? you guys are very hard to find :)
> : >>>>
> : >>>> Thanks,
> : >>>> D'
> : >>>> _______________________________________________
> : >>>> TUHS mailing list
> : >>>> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> : >>>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> : >>>
> : >>>
> : >
> : >
> : _______________________________________________
> : TUHS mailing list
> : TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> : https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> :
> :
>

[TUHS] DG/UX user/admin around?

[DG UX]

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After reviewing the docs and /proc/bus/pci via a livecd, I believe
Warner is 100% correct.
sd(apsc(pci(01),09),1) should do it.
Even tried (pci(1),9),1) and pci(1),9,0) and all the possible
combinations between these. Nothing loads.

:(

Cheers



On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 10:14 AM, DG UX <dgunix at gmail.com> wrote:
> According to the docs, there are ranges to those parameters :
>
> sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),0,0)
>
> sd = scsi disk
> apsc = scsi controller
> PCI = pci host bridge
> 0 = pci host bridge number. 0= primary. 1=secondary
> d = PCI slot number 0-1F
> 0 = PCI function number 0-7
> 7 - Controller SCSI ID - 0-F
> 0 - Device SCSI ID 0=disk 2=tape 4=cdrom
> 0 - LUN number - 0-1F
>
>
> from what I gathered, I know this to be 100% guaranteed:
> sd(apsc(pci(?),?,0,?),?,0)
>
> first "?" is pci bridge which is assumed to be primary (0).
> The last "?" is the device SCSI ID which seems odd,  the initial
> command says "1" and here it doesn't even fit. Only 0,2 and 4.
> Of course I've tried all both of the options M. Warnet Losh suggested,
> still getting nothing.
>
> Seems strange.
> What do you guys think?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 5:29 PM, M. Warner Losh <imp at bsdimp.com> wrote:
>> In message: <AANLkTi=VKwYCAW-+qE0=ijRQk5O0ci1abjWwT326GRXU at mail.gmail.com>
>>            DG UX <dgunix at gmail.com> writes:
>> : Yeah, tried that, even with -vvv. Got :
>> :
>> : 01:09.0 SCSI storage controller: Adaptec AHA-2940U/UW/D / AIC-7881U
>> :         Control: I/O- Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV+ VGASnoop-
>> : ParErr- Stepping- SERR+ FastB2B-
>> :         Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium
>> : >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR-
>> :         Latency: 64 (2000ns min, 2000ns max), Cache Line Size: 64 bytes
>> :         Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 16
>> :         Region 0: I/O ports at ec00 [disabled] [size=256]
>> :         Region 1: Memory at ff8ff000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
>> :         Expansion ROM at 30000000 [disabled] [size=64K]
>> :
>> : That means that is bus 01, device 09, and function 0. Correct? That means that
>> : dev(ctrl(pci[pci_num]),slot[,func_num[,ctrl_id]])[,dev_id[,LUN]])    ==
>> : sd(apsc(pci(0),3,0,7),9,0) ?
>>
>> bus is going to be 1 here.  slot == device since it makes little sense
>> to mix scsi and pci IDs in that part of the string to me and
>> bus:dev:func is fairly standard notation (with variation in
>> punctionation) and dev_id would be 1, since that's the SCSI ID (where
>> it does make sense to use scsi IDs).
>>
>> : I think that ctrl_id is my Adaptec adapter (7, according to Adaptec
>> : mgmt) and dev_id is my SCSI HDD = 1 according to jumper setting and
>> : Adaptet mgmt).
>>
>> I don't think that ctrl_id is 7.  Your SCSI ID for the controller on
>> the scsi bus is 7, but the SCSI ID for all controllers is 7.  If you
>> had a dual channel scsi card, you'd have to distinguish channel A from
>> channel B, and that's usually going to be encoded 0/1 or 1/2 (more
>> typically the former, but I don't know DGUX specifically).
>>
>> So wouldn't that be sd(apsc(pci1),9,0,0),1,0) or more simply
>> sd(apsc(pci1),9),1)?  Hmmm, the above expression has too few ) so I'm
>> thinking based on the original boot command, it should be either
>> sd(apsc(pci(1),9,0,0),1,0) or more simply sd(apsc(pci(1),9),1)
>>
>> Maybe this will be helpful.  But that's just a shot in the dark.
>> There also appears to be a PCI bridge in the new system that isn't in
>> the old system, since the card is on pci bus 1 and the boot loader is
>> looking for it on pci bus 0.  This likely isn't a huge deal since the
>> BIOS of that vintage PC will initialize the bridge correctly.
>>
>> Warner
>>
>> : Also dmidecode shows PCI3 as the only one that is 'in use'.
>> :
>> : Handle 0x0903, DMI type 9, 13 bytes
>> : System Slot Information
>> :         Designation: PCI3
>> :         Type: 32-bit PCI
>> :         Current Usage: In Use
>> :         Length: Long
>> :         ID: 3
>> :         Characteristics:
>> :                 5.0 V is provided
>> :                 3.3 V is provided
>> :                 PME signal is supported
>> :
>> :
>> :
>> : Thanks
>> :
>> :
>> :
>> : On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Natalia Portillo <claunia at claunia.com> wrote:
>> : > Use lspci -v on the Linux LiveCD to be sure that bus, slot, function and controller number are correct.
>> : >
>> : > El 24/08/2010, a las 15:44, DG UX escribió:
>> : >
>> : >> I've tried 3 things:
>> : >>
>> : >> 1. Board shows "PCI3"
>> : >> 2. Linux LiveCD says PCI slot 3
>> : >> 3. I've tried a million combinations, just for the heck of it. None worked.
>> : >>
>> : >> And also, as I said, in case there is only 1 adapter it should
>> : >> automatically default and I cant shorthand it, as -
>> : >> sd(apsc(pci(),3),0)root
>> : >> Of course that as for the controller ID it is 7 - as shown by the
>> : >> Adaptec management tool and the device ID is 1 (or 0), depending on
>> : >> where I put it's jumper and also shown by mgmt tool at boot.
>> : >>
>> : >> Got any other ideas of how to verify bus/slot?
>> : >>
>> : >>
>> : >> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:01 AM, Natalia Portillo <claunia at claunia.com> wrote:
>> : >>> Hi,
>> : >>>
>> : >>> Just a question.
>> : >>>
>> : >>> How did you checked the PCI bus and slot numbers?
>> : >>> Counting physically on the motherboard?
>> : >>>
>> : >>> If this is the case you're doing it wrong.
>> : >>>
>> : >>> The chipset could have various buses and slot numbers and so what appears physically to be slot 0 can easily be bus 2 slot 6.
>> : >>>
>> : >>> El 11/08/2010, a las 15:14, DG UX escribió:
>> : >>>
>> : >>>> Sorry to bother you all with my questions over this ancient machine
>> : >>>> and my failing trials with it..
>> : >>>> Trying to get a DGUX system (Intel based) to work, as is, on a 'regular' x86 PC.
>> : >>>>
>> : >>>> Just a couple of things :
>> : >>>>
>> : >>>> 1. I did find out that that DG machine is looking for an Adaptec PCI
>> : >>>> SCSI Controller, and so I got an AHA-2940UW PCI card, installed it in
>> : >>>> an old PC, got a matching 9GB HDD and booted it up from my image I've
>> : >>>> 'DD'ed from the original DG machine.
>> : >>>> Boot prompt came up and said it's trying to load
>> : >>>> sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3
>> : >>>> it didn't, no error msg, just gave me back a "Boot command:" prompt.
>> : >>>> Bootpath of the original machine is sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3.
>> : >>>> The disk drive parameters are correct, according to the docs, its -
>> : >>>> dev(ctrl(pci[pci_num]),slot[,func_num[,ctrl_id]])[,dev_id[,LUN]]).
>> : >>>> I've checked the PCI slot in which I installed the card, it's 3, and
>> : >>>> so I've tried '3' instead of 'd' in the command above, just got the
>> : >>>> boot prompt back again.
>> : >>>> Also tried - sd(apsc(pci(),3),0)root:/dgux -3  which should also work
>> : >>>> according to the docs (all other params are default).
>> : >>>> Tried to play with it and tried tons of combinations, just for the
>> : >>>> heck of it, still nothing. If I do type in some nonsense it does give
>> : >>>> me an error msg : "Error: No device specifications found in the boot
>> : >>>> command. Invalid boot command line".
>> : >>>> According to the docs, once I get the correct syntax, the system should load up.
>> : >>>> Anyone got any advice about that?
>> : >>>>
>> : >>>> 2.   Anyone here a/was a DG/UX user/admin? you guys are very hard to find :)
>> : >>>>
>> : >>>> Thanks,
>> : >>>> D'
>> : >>>> _______________________________________________
>> : >>>> TUHS mailing list
>> : >>>> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
>> : >>>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>> : >>>
>> : >>>
>> : >
>> : >
>> : _______________________________________________
>> : TUHS mailing list
>> : TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
>> : https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>> :
>> :
>>
>

[TUHS] DG/UX user/admin around?

[M. Warner Losh]

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In message: <AANLkTi=J5ofZ3RDvMhHam-5CvgRf-GhUrUQDYwYfRoEj at mail.gmail.com>
            DG UX <dgunix at gmail.com> writes:
: After reviewing the docs and /proc/bus/pci via a livecd, I believe
: Warner is 100% correct.
: sd(apsc(pci(01),09),1) should do it.
: Even tried (pci(1),9),1) and pci(1),9,0) and all the possible
: combinations between these. Nothing loads.
: 
: :(

Try strapping the SCSI drive to 0 instead of 1 and see if that fixes
it.  Maybe it has 'special magic' based on the 'type/id' of the
intended disk that gets 'freaked out' when you pass it a number it
isn't expecting.

Warner

: Cheers
: 
: 
: 
: On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 10:14 AM, DG UX <dgunix at gmail.com> wrote:
: > According to the docs, there are ranges to those parameters :
: >
: > sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),0,0)
: >
: > sd = scsi disk
: > apsc = scsi controller
: > PCI = pci host bridge
: > 0 = pci host bridge number. 0= primary. 1=secondary
: > d = PCI slot number 0-1F
: > 0 = PCI function number 0-7
: > 7 - Controller SCSI ID - 0-F
: > 0 - Device SCSI ID 0=disk 2=tape 4=cdrom
: > 0 - LUN number - 0-1F
: >
: >
: > from what I gathered, I know this to be 100% guaranteed:
: > sd(apsc(pci(?),?,0,?),?,0)
: >
: > first "?" is pci bridge which is assumed to be primary (0).
: > The last "?" is the device SCSI ID which seems odd,  the initial
: > command says "1" and here it doesn't even fit. Only 0,2 and 4.
: > Of course I've tried all both of the options M. Warnet Losh suggested,
: > still getting nothing.
: >
: > Seems strange.
: > What do you guys think?
: >
: >
: >
: > On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 5:29 PM, M. Warner Losh <imp at bsdimp.com> wrote:
: >> In message: <AANLkTi=VKwYCAW-+qE0=ijRQk5O0ci1abjWwT326GRXU at mail.gmail.com>
: >>            DG UX <dgunix at gmail.com> writes:
: >> : Yeah, tried that, even with -vvv. Got :
: >> :
: >> : 01:09.0 SCSI storage controller: Adaptec AHA-2940U/UW/D / AIC-7881U
: >> :         Control: I/O- Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV+ VGASnoop-
: >> : ParErr- Stepping- SERR+ FastB2B-
: >> :         Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium
: >> : >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR-
: >> :         Latency: 64 (2000ns min, 2000ns max), Cache Line Size: 64 bytes
: >> :         Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 16
: >> :         Region 0: I/O ports at ec00 [disabled] [size=256]
: >> :         Region 1: Memory at ff8ff000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
: >> :         Expansion ROM at 30000000 [disabled] [size=64K]
: >> :
: >> : That means that is bus 01, device 09, and function 0. Correct? That means that
: >> : dev(ctrl(pci[pci_num]),slot[,func_num[,ctrl_id]])[,dev_id[,LUN]])    ==
: >> : sd(apsc(pci(0),3,0,7),9,0) ?
: >>
: >> bus is going to be 1 here.  slot == device since it makes little sense
: >> to mix scsi and pci IDs in that part of the string to me and
: >> bus:dev:func is fairly standard notation (with variation in
: >> punctionation) and dev_id would be 1, since that's the SCSI ID (where
: >> it does make sense to use scsi IDs).
: >>
: >> : I think that ctrl_id is my Adaptec adapter (7, according to Adaptec
: >> : mgmt) and dev_id is my SCSI HDD = 1 according to jumper setting and
: >> : Adaptet mgmt).
: >>
: >> I don't think that ctrl_id is 7.  Your SCSI ID for the controller on
: >> the scsi bus is 7, but the SCSI ID for all controllers is 7.  If you
: >> had a dual channel scsi card, you'd have to distinguish channel A from
: >> channel B, and that's usually going to be encoded 0/1 or 1/2 (more
: >> typically the former, but I don't know DGUX specifically).
: >>
: >> So wouldn't that be sd(apsc(pci1),9,0,0),1,0) or more simply
: >> sd(apsc(pci1),9),1)?  Hmmm, the above expression has too few ) so I'm
: >> thinking based on the original boot command, it should be either
: >> sd(apsc(pci(1),9,0,0),1,0) or more simply sd(apsc(pci(1),9),1)
: >>
: >> Maybe this will be helpful.  But that's just a shot in the dark.
: >> There also appears to be a PCI bridge in the new system that isn't in
: >> the old system, since the card is on pci bus 1 and the boot loader is
: >> looking for it on pci bus 0.  This likely isn't a huge deal since the
: >> BIOS of that vintage PC will initialize the bridge correctly.
: >>
: >> Warner
: >>
: >> : Also dmidecode shows PCI3 as the only one that is 'in use'.
: >> :
: >> : Handle 0x0903, DMI type 9, 13 bytes
: >> : System Slot Information
: >> :         Designation: PCI3
: >> :         Type: 32-bit PCI
: >> :         Current Usage: In Use
: >> :         Length: Long
: >> :         ID: 3
: >> :         Characteristics:
: >> :                 5.0 V is provided
: >> :                 3.3 V is provided
: >> :                 PME signal is supported
: >> :
: >> :
: >> :
: >> : Thanks
: >> :
: >> :
: >> :
: >> : On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Natalia Portillo <claunia at claunia.com> wrote:
: >> : > Use lspci -v on the Linux LiveCD to be sure that bus, slot, function and controller number are correct.
: >> : >
: >> : > El 24/08/2010, a las 15:44, DG UX escribió:
: >> : >
: >> : >> I've tried 3 things:
: >> : >>
: >> : >> 1. Board shows "PCI3"
: >> : >> 2. Linux LiveCD says PCI slot 3
: >> : >> 3. I've tried a million combinations, just for the heck of it. None worked.
: >> : >>
: >> : >> And also, as I said, in case there is only 1 adapter it should
: >> : >> automatically default and I cant shorthand it, as -
: >> : >> sd(apsc(pci(),3),0)root
: >> : >> Of course that as for the controller ID it is 7 - as shown by the
: >> : >> Adaptec management tool and the device ID is 1 (or 0), depending on
: >> : >> where I put it's jumper and also shown by mgmt tool at boot.
: >> : >>
: >> : >> Got any other ideas of how to verify bus/slot?
: >> : >>
: >> : >>
: >> : >> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:01 AM, Natalia Portillo <claunia at claunia.com> wrote:
: >> : >>> Hi,
: >> : >>>
: >> : >>> Just a question.
: >> : >>>
: >> : >>> How did you checked the PCI bus and slot numbers?
: >> : >>> Counting physically on the motherboard?
: >> : >>>
: >> : >>> If this is the case you're doing it wrong.
: >> : >>>
: >> : >>> The chipset could have various buses and slot numbers and so what appears physically to be slot 0 can easily be bus 2 slot 6.
: >> : >>>
: >> : >>> El 11/08/2010, a las 15:14, DG UX escribió:
: >> : >>>
: >> : >>>> Sorry to bother you all with my questions over this ancient machine
: >> : >>>> and my failing trials with it..
: >> : >>>> Trying to get a DGUX system (Intel based) to work, as is, on a 'regular' x86 PC.
: >> : >>>>
: >> : >>>> Just a couple of things :
: >> : >>>>
: >> : >>>> 1. I did find out that that DG machine is looking for an Adaptec PCI
: >> : >>>> SCSI Controller, and so I got an AHA-2940UW PCI card, installed it in
: >> : >>>> an old PC, got a matching 9GB HDD and booted it up from my image I've
: >> : >>>> 'DD'ed from the original DG machine.
: >> : >>>> Boot prompt came up and said it's trying to load
: >> : >>>> sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3
: >> : >>>> it didn't, no error msg, just gave me back a "Boot command:" prompt.
: >> : >>>> Bootpath of the original machine is sd(apsc(pci(0),d,0,7),1,0)root:/dgux -3.
: >> : >>>> The disk drive parameters are correct, according to the docs, its -
: >> : >>>> dev(ctrl(pci[pci_num]),slot[,func_num[,ctrl_id]])[,dev_id[,LUN]]).
: >> : >>>> I've checked the PCI slot in which I installed the card, it's 3, and
: >> : >>>> so I've tried '3' instead of 'd' in the command above, just got the
: >> : >>>> boot prompt back again.
: >> : >>>> Also tried - sd(apsc(pci(),3),0)root:/dgux -3  which should also work
: >> : >>>> according to the docs (all other params are default).
: >> : >>>> Tried to play with it and tried tons of combinations, just for the
: >> : >>>> heck of it, still nothing. If I do type in some nonsense it does give
: >> : >>>> me an error msg : "Error: No device specifications found in the boot
: >> : >>>> command. Invalid boot command line".
: >> : >>>> According to the docs, once I get the correct syntax, the system should load up.
: >> : >>>> Anyone got any advice about that?
: >> : >>>>
: >> : >>>> 2.   Anyone here a/was a DG/UX user/admin? you guys are very hard to find :)
: >> : >>>>
: >> : >>>> Thanks,
: >> : >>>> D'
: >> : >>>> _______________________________________________
: >> : >>>> TUHS mailing list
: >> : >>>> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
: >> : >>>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
: >> : >>>
: >> : >>>
: >> : >
: >> : >
: >> : _______________________________________________
: >> : TUHS mailing list
: >> : TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
: >> : https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
: >> :
: >> :
: >>
: >
: 
: