[TUHS] Novell and Ancient Unix

[TUHS] Novell and Ancient Unix

[Michael Kerpan]

Now that Novell has definitively been found by the courts to own the
Unix copyrights AND decided not to sell them in their latest batch of
financial flailing about, I'm wondering what they're going to do about
the Ancient Unix license. While they've promised not to sue anybody
about Unix, I'm wondering if they'll ever officially endorse the
Ancient Unix 4-clause license or perhaps even switch it to something a
little less awkward like a 3-clause BSD clone or the MIT license.
Also, I wonder if perhaps they might be convinced to expand the
license to cover things like System III or maybe even some early
versions of System V. How might one go about making these inquiries?

[TUHS] Novell and Ancient Unix

[Warren Toomey]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 07:00:56PM -0400, Michael Kerpan wrote:
> Also, I wonder if perhaps they might be convinced to expand the
> license to cover things like System III or maybe even some early
> versions of System V. How might one go about making these inquiries?

If anybody has any contacts at Novell, or even pointers to people
who have pointers to Novell, please pass them on. I too would like to
get SysIII and early SysV out publicly.

Cheers,
	Warren

[TUHS] Novell and Ancient Unix

[Jason Stevens]

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I tried last year and they were doing their best to sell me linux..  I
even gave them links showing that they owned SYSV, I was asking about
source/binary licenses, or even the ability to resell SYSV.. lol that
got me nowhere.

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 7:12 PM, Warren Toomey <wkt at tuhs.org> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 07:00:56PM -0400, Michael Kerpan wrote:
> > Also, I wonder if perhaps they might be convinced to expand the
> > license to cover things like System III or maybe even some early
> > versions of System V. How might one go about making these inquiries?
>
> If anybody has any contacts at Novell, or even pointers to people
> who have pointers to Novell, please pass them on. I too would like to
> get SysIII and early SysV out publicly.
>
> Cheers,
>        Warren
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

[TUHS] Novell and Ancient Unix

[Michael Kerpan]

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On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 7:25 PM, Jason Stevens <neozeed at gmail.com> wrote:
> I tried last year and they were doing their best to sell me linux..  I
> even gave them links showing that they owned SYSV, I was asking about
> source/binary licenses, or even the ability to resell SYSV.. lol that
> got me nowhere.

For something they fought so hard in court to own, they sure are
clueless about what they have. Still, perhaps asking about reselling
SVR4 or whatever they nominally may still have in some catalog isn't
going to get you in touch with the people who would need to be
persuaded to release some earlier stuff under an open license.

[TUHS] Novell and Ancient Unix

[Jason Stevens]

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I honestly wonder if the people doing the lawsuits, and the people
selling stuff are even in the same continent...Then again they
probably have one of those fantastic 1970's models where you buy
through a reseller who masquerades as the parent company, and only
sells what is on a price list or at most they can pursue a part
number...  It is always strange these companies that fight over old
stuff like crazy, but refuse to support, or sell it...

But I'll sit tight, as I know the pain of supporting MS-DOS based
stuff .... in 2011.

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 7:51 PM, Michael Kerpan
<madcrow.maxwell at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 7:25 PM, Jason Stevens <neozeed at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I tried last year and they were doing their best to sell me linux..  I
>> even gave them links showing that they owned SYSV, I was asking about
>> source/binary licenses, or even the ability to resell SYSV.. lol that
>> got me nowhere.
>
> For something they fought so hard in court to own, they sure are
> clueless about what they have. Still, perhaps asking about reselling
> SVR4 or whatever they nominally may still have in some catalog isn't
> going to get you in touch with the people who would need to be
> persuaded to release some earlier stuff under an open license.
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>

[TUHS] Novell and Ancient Unix

[Lyndon Nerenberg]

> For something they fought so hard in court to own, they sure are
> clueless about what they have.

I recall a message to the list a year or two(?) ago from Warren (I think) 
describing how he had to explain to one of the many incarnations of SCO[1]
just exactly what all this "UNIX" stuff was that they had bought (i.e. 
all the nth Editions, SysIII, SVRx, etc).  I'm too lazy to search the list 
archives to find it, but it's there someplace.

--lyndon

[1] The SCO-variant that was the ancestor of Caldera/Novell.  My brain 
turns to cottage cheese every time I think about this part of history.

[TUHS] Novell and Ancient Unix

[Larry McVoy]

I used to be plugged in to those guys but it was decades ago.
Anyone know if Ransome Love is still there?  Nope, just
googled him.  I can try and track him down and ask for help.
-- 
---
Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitkeeper.com

[TUHS] Novell and Ancient Unix

[Stanley Lieber]

Does Novell also now own Research Unix v8, v9 and v10?

-sl

[TUHS] Novell and Ancient Unix

[Warren Toomey]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 08:10:51PM -0500, Stanley Lieber wrote:
> Does Novell also now own Research Unix v8, v9 and v10?

I don't believe so, as they were from the labs not USL. However,
Norman or Dennis would be able to clarify.

Cheers,
	Warren

[TUHS] Novell and Ancient Unix

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

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On Wednesday, 13 April 2011 at 19:51:44 -0400, Michael Kerpan wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 7:25 PM, Jason Stevens <neozeed at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I tried last year and they were doing their best to sell me linux..  I
>> even gave them links showing that they owned SYSV, I was asking about
>> source/binary licenses, or even the ability to resell SYSV.. lol that
>> got me nowhere.
>
> For something they fought so hard in court to own, they sure are
> clueless about what they have

They're a big company.  Left hand, right hand syndrome.

Greg
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[TUHS] Novell and Ancient Unix

[Benjamin Huntsman]

I've been asking this question around for a few years now.  My interest is in seeing the 10th Edition get released.
I've been told by sources in the Labs that there is no "9th Edition" in distribution format.  I'm only aware of the Labs'
archive copy and Norman Wilson's copies of 10th Edition still in existance...

Word is that Alcatel-Lucent and AT&T both don't care about it anymore.  I'm pretty sure it'd be up to Novell to add
8th, 9th, and 10th Edition UNIX to the "Ancient UNIX" license.  Might be a bit trickier getting SysIII and SysV on the
list, though.

I've been shooting e-mails to Novell's Intellectual Property office every few months for a while, but got no response.
It's probably time someone picked up the phone and attempted to navigate their menus.  We'd probably need the 
right person to call, though.  I've been meaning to set up a petition site to get a few signatures and see if we could
get Dennis Ritchie or someone to try to make a call.  Since this has come up again, I might give it a shot to see if
I can at least find a point of contact...


________________________________________
From: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org [tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org] on behalf of Warren Toomey [wkt@tuhs.org]
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 6:13 PM
To: Stanley Lieber
Cc: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] Novell and Ancient Unix

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 08:10:51PM -0500, Stanley Lieber wrote:
> Does Novell also now own Research Unix v8, v9 and v10?

I don't believe so, as they were from the labs not USL. However,
Norman or Dennis would be able to clarify.

Cheers,
        Warren
_______________________________________________
TUHS mailing list
TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

[TUHS] Novell and Ancient Unix

[Aharon Robbins]

Hi All.

I willing to bet that the lady running Groklaw would be a great person
to help out in the effort to free up the old Unixes.  She probably knows
who to talk to, and I bet they know who she is.

It's worth a shot, methinks.

Thanks,

Arnold

[TUHS] Novell and Ancient Unix

[Al Kossow]

On 4/14/11 12:00 AM, Benjamin Huntsman wrote:

> I've been shooting e-mails to Novell's Intellectual Property office every few months for a while, but got no response.
> It's probably time someone picked up the phone and attempted to navigate their menus.  We'd probably need the
> right person to call, though.  I've been meaning to set up a petition site to get a few signatures and see if we could
> get Dennis Ritchie or someone to try to make a call.  Since this has come up again, I might give it a shot to see if
> I can at least find a point of contact...
>

If it helps, I can offer The Computer History Museum as an institutional host for the archive. We've had some good luck
recently with HP, Xerox, and IBM in getting code released for non-commercial use.

Al Kossow
Robert N. Miner Software Curator
Computer History Museum