From: Dan Halbert <halbert@halwitz.org>
To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] more about Brian...
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2022 23:58:40 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <6b7bfa10-65b1-a56e-e143-c8663532b934@halwitz.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAKzdPgzSH94Xg=XYYKy6J+dWAD+ZVDzUTNE=YNRkyVRH69PJfA@mail.gmail.com>
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Thank you, Rob. I composed a similar reply, and debated whether to
send it. You hit all the right points more succinctly and directly. --Dan H.
On 2/5/22 23:52, Rob Pike wrote:
> Be careful with your castigations. Yes, there is lots of old working
> code, but keep in mind that that code has often not been as widely
> tested and deployed as much of the software that runs today. The fact
> that it worked well on old hardware doesn't mean it will be suitable
> for modern networked remotely administered multicore machines pounded
> on by millions of people.
>
> And speaking of multicore, it's possible to write code using
> malloc/free that doesn't leak when run concurrently, but it's a lot
> easier, safer, and robust to let the machine do the memory accounting.
> And the fact that "kids today" can't do it doesn't mean they are lazy
> or failures, it means they grew up in a different time. And a lot of
> them are as capable as you all, just in a different environment.
>
> Lately this list has a lot of attitude and prejudice pretending to be
> wisdom and superiority.
>
> -rob
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 12:11 PM Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 2/5/22 6:56 PM, Larry McVoy wrote:
>> On Fri, Feb 04, 2022 at 09:28:10PM +0100, Hellwig Geisse wrote:
>>> Hi Thomas,
>>>
>>> On Fr, 2022-02-04 at 20:45 +0100, Thomas Paulsen wrote:
>>>> I tell you one thing: I never ever experienced any problems with
>>>> traditional malloc()/free().??
>>> did you ever write a program which does heavy malloc()/free()
>>> on complicated (i.e., shared) data structures *and* runs for
>>> days, perhaps weeks? IMO it's very difficult to do this without
>>> a GC, and you have to exercise quite an amount of discipline
>>> to do it right.
>> I've done this and I've employed people who have done this. We're
>> a dieing breed, the focus seems to be on programming languages and
>> tools for idiots. People don't want to learn the discipline it takes
>> to work with malloc()/free(). It's sad.
>
> I completely agree. This is ridiculous. Do modern programmer's
> seriously think that the old code wasn't complex or robust?
> Sheesh, there's code out there that has run through more millions
> of transactions an hour for more years than most of these folks
> have been alive. There's also code that's been running without any
> updates, for decades. Most code written by the newbreed won't run
> for a month without surfacing dozens of bugs. Margaret Hamilton
> would prolly have some choice words for these folks.
>
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-02-06 4:59 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 64+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-01-31 20:46 [TUHS] ratfor vibe Will Senn
2022-02-01 15:37 ` arnold
2022-02-01 15:52 ` Ralph Corderoy
2022-02-01 16:58 ` Clem Cole
2022-02-01 17:02 ` silas poulson
2022-02-02 7:47 ` arnold
2022-02-03 5:47 ` [TUHS] more about Brian Rich Morin
2022-02-03 7:44 ` markus schnalke
2022-02-03 8:18 ` Rich Morin
2022-02-04 2:23 ` Adam Thornton
2022-02-04 2:34 ` [TUHS] more about Brian... [really Rust] Jon Steinhart
2022-02-04 13:07 ` Thomas Paulsen
2022-02-04 23:18 ` Dan Cross
2022-02-04 3:28 ` [TUHS] more about Brian Dan Stromberg
2022-02-04 5:11 ` Rich Morin
2022-02-04 21:22 ` [TUHS] Go vs. Rust, and etc. (was: more about Brian...) Greg A. Woods
2022-02-04 21:37 ` Richard Salz
2022-02-04 22:32 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2022-02-04 23:05 ` Thomas Paulsen
2022-02-04 23:15 ` Seth J. Morabito
2022-02-05 1:41 ` Adam Thornton
2022-02-04 7:38 ` [TUHS] more about Brian Andy Kosela
2022-02-04 8:10 ` Steve Nickolas
2022-02-04 8:44 ` markus schnalke
2022-02-04 9:16 ` Steve Nickolas
2022-02-04 18:54 ` John Cowan
2022-02-04 19:45 ` Thomas Paulsen
2022-02-04 20:28 ` Hellwig Geisse
2022-02-04 21:03 ` Jim Capp
2022-02-04 22:30 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2022-02-04 22:25 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2022-02-06 0:56 ` Larry McVoy
2022-02-06 1:10 ` Will Senn
2022-02-06 4:52 ` Rob Pike
2022-02-06 4:58 ` Dan Halbert [this message]
2022-02-06 5:06 ` Will Senn
2022-02-06 6:19 ` Ed Carp
2022-02-06 6:27 ` Rob Pike
2022-02-06 6:40 ` Stuart Remphrey
2022-02-06 6:44 ` Bakul Shah
2022-02-06 19:08 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2022-02-06 12:52 ` Ralph Corderoy
2022-02-06 13:14 ` Ed Carp
2022-02-06 14:13 ` Dan Cross
2022-02-06 14:15 ` Larry McVoy
2022-02-06 16:31 ` Warner Losh
2022-02-06 18:36 ` [TUHS] more about Brian... [ really GC vs malloc/free languages ] Jon Steinhart
2022-02-06 19:27 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-02-06 19:33 ` Warner Losh
2022-02-06 19:37 ` Jon Steinhart
2022-02-06 20:21 ` [TUHS] COFF is over there Ralph Corderoy
2022-02-06 16:16 ` [TUHS] more about Brian Brad Spencer
2022-02-08 5:22 ` Ed Carp
2022-02-03 18:57 ` [TUHS] ratfor vibe silas poulson
2022-02-04 8:26 ` arnold
2022-02-04 19:41 ` John Cowan
2022-02-10 15:18 ` Ralph Corderoy
2022-02-03 4:00 ` Will Senn
2022-02-03 4:31 ` Al Kossow
2022-02-03 5:16 ` Warner Losh
2022-02-03 20:00 ` Adam Thornton
2022-02-04 6:06 ` Ori Idan
2022-02-04 17:35 ` Adam Thornton
2022-02-04 17:44 ` Will Senn
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