[TUHS] pdp11 question

[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Tim Newsham]

How much does an old pdp-11 type system cost these
days (ie. a pdp-11/40 with disks and terminal capable
of running something like 1st, 6th or 7th ed)?

How much power do they take up to power on?
Whats maintenance like on those things?

I've always been curious.

Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com

[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Larry McVoy]

Back in the day there was something called a microvax and I think there
was a micropdp - it was a tall slim thing.  Might google that.

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 02:38:29PM -1000, Tim Newsham wrote:
> How much does an old pdp-11 type system cost these
> days (ie. a pdp-11/40 with disks and terminal capable
> of running something like 1st, 6th or 7th ed)?
>
> How much power do they take up to power on?
> Whats maintenance like on those things?
>
> I've always been curious.
>
> Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

-- 
---
Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitkeeper.com

[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Warner Losh]

  On 11/13/2010 18:03, Larry McVoy wrote:
> Back in the day there was something called a microvax and I think there
> was a micropdp - it was a tall slim thing.  Might google that.
The MicroPDP11 was in more or less the same form factor as the MicroVAX 
I and II (also marketed as VaxStation I and II).  It was also known as 
something like the PDP 11/73.  A lower-end version was the Digital PRO 
350 and 360.

I don't know if any of these ran Unix or not, but you might look into 
them.  A few years ago, the PROs were really cheap and used about the 
same power as a PC from 1985.

Warner
> On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 02:38:29PM -1000, Tim Newsham wrote:
>> How much does an old pdp-11 type system cost these
>> days (ie. a pdp-11/40 with disks and terminal capable
>> of running something like 1st, 6th or 7th ed)?
>>
>> How much power do they take up to power on?
>> Whats maintenance like on those things?
>>
>> I've always been curious.
>>
>> Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> TUHS mailing list
>> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Pasquale Villani]

This thread made me a little curious so I went to eBay and found an 11/44
there:


http://cgi.ebay.com/DEC-PDP11-44-Computer-Loaded-w-Cards-No-Reserve-/3902560
88856?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5add135718#shId

There's also an FPGA SoC on opencores.com that runs 5th edition UNIX and
2.11 BSD UNIX:

http://opencores.org/project,w11

The latter had been a little more than a passing interest for me, but I just
haven't had the time to play with it.

Pat




On 11/13/10 8:59 PM, "Warner Losh" <imp at bsdimp.com> wrote:

>   On 11/13/2010 18:03, Larry McVoy wrote:
>> Back in the day there was something called a microvax and I think there
>> was a micropdp - it was a tall slim thing.  Might google that.
> The MicroPDP11 was in more or less the same form factor as the MicroVAX
> I and II (also marketed as VaxStation I and II).  It was also known as
> something like the PDP 11/73.  A lower-end version was the Digital PRO
> 350 and 360.
> 
> I don't know if any of these ran Unix or not, but you might look into
> them.  A few years ago, the PROs were really cheap and used about the
> same power as a PC from 1985.
> 
> Warner
>> On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 02:38:29PM -1000, Tim Newsham wrote:
>>> How much does an old pdp-11 type system cost these
>>> days (ie. a pdp-11/40 with disks and terminal capable
>>> of running something like 1st, 6th or 7th ed)?
>>> 
>>> How much power do they take up to power on?
>>> Whats maintenance like on those things?
>>> 
>>> I've always been curious.
>>> 
>>> Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TUHS mailing list
>>> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
>>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> 

[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Greg 'groggy' Lehey]

On Saturday, 13 November 2010 at 18:59:46 -0700, Warner Losh wrote:
>  On 11/13/2010 18:03, Larry McVoy wrote:
>> On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 02:38:29PM -1000, Tim Newsham wrote:
>>> How much does an old pdp-11 type system cost these
>>> days (ie. a pdp-11/40 with disks and terminal capable
>>> of running something like 1st, 6th or 7th ed)?
>>>
>>> How much power do they take up to power on?
>>> Whats maintenance like on those things?
>>>
>>> I've always been curious.
>>
>> Back in the day there was something called a microvax and I think there
>> was a micropdp - it was a tall slim thing.  Might google that.
>
> The MicroPDP11 was in more or less the same form factor as the
> MicroVAX I and II (also marketed as VaxStation I and II).  It was
> also known as something like the PDP 11/73.

I wasn't aware of a MicroPDP-11, but I have an LSI-11/73, photos at
http://www.lemis.com/grog/photos/Photos.php?dirdate=20001122&imagesizes=112#Photo-2
or
http://www.lemis.com/grog/photos/Photos.php?dirdate=20061027&imagesizes=13#Photo-1
Clearly it's a little larger than a MicroVAX.

If anybody's interested, this machine is up for grabs.  I don't want
any money for it, just the knowledge that it will be looked after.  It
comes with a lot of tapes and (RL-02) disks, and also lots of
documentation.  If anybody here in Australia wants it, you're welcome
to come and pick it up.

> I don't know if any of these ran Unix or not, but you might look
> into them.  A few years ago, the PROs were really cheap and used
> about the same power as a PC from 1985.

This one does.  I gather the architecture  is identical to the
PDP-11/73.  One of the tapes includes the 7th Edition.

Greg
--
Finger grog at FreeBSD.org for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed.  See
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[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Jochen Kunz]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:38:29 -1000 (HST)
Tim Newsham <newsham at lava.net> wrote:

> How much does an old pdp-11 type system cost these days
Depending on the source you may get it for free or you may pay several
thousand $$$$.

> How much power do they take up to power on?
IIRC my PDP-11/73 with some periperal controllers and two 5.25" ESDI
disks takes less then 200 Watts.

> Whats maintenance like on those things?
Nothing special. Some peripherals may need maintenance like cleaning
tape drive heads.

There are several models of the PDP-11. From small systems like the /03
to big multi rack instalations like the /70. If you want a small system
to play around at home look for a later QBus model, i.e. PDP-11/[5789]3.
Those machines come in or can be reduced to a single 3U 19" rack mount
box called BA23. The BA23 can be mounted in a flor stand, no need for
a 19" rack.

There is a slightly larger box, the BA123. The BA23 and BA123 where
common boxes for MicroVAXen too. So if you get just the OBus card set
for a PDP-11 you can convert a MicroVAC to a PDP-11. Many peripherals
are comon to PDP-11 and MicroVAXen like RQDX3, TK50 / TK70, ...
All you need to convert a QBus MicroVAX to a PDP-11 are a QBus PDP-11
CPU and memory. (I went this route.)
-- 


\end{Jochen}

\ref{http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/}

[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Wilko Bulte]

Quoting Warner Losh, who wrote on Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 06:59:46PM -0700 ..
>  On 11/13/2010 18:03, Larry McVoy wrote:
> >Back in the day there was something called a microvax and I think there
> >was a micropdp - it was a tall slim thing.  Might google that.

BA23 box.

> The MicroPDP11 was in more or less the same form factor as the MicroVAX 
> I and II (also marketed as VaxStation I and II).  It was also known as 

Well, sometimes.  BA23 box was used for VAXstations, but there was also the
BA123 box, which looks more like a dogs house.  

Both my BA23 11/73 and my BA123 MicroVAX are in my storage downstairs
otherwise I would make some pictures.

> something like the PDP 11/73.  A lower-end version was the Digital PRO 
> 350 and 360.
> 
> I don't know if any of these ran Unix or not, but you might look into 
> them.  A few years ago, the PROs were really cheap and used about the 
> same power as a PC from 1985.

The PRO series ran P/OS (really.. weird acronym).  I think there used to be
an Ultrix variant for them too.  Never used that, did use P/OS while I was
at DEC in the late 80s for my graduation work.

Pro350 was an 11/23 CPU (F11??), the Pro380 was an 11/73 CPU (J11?)

Wilko

[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Wilko Bulte]

11/73:

http://www.chookfest.net/computers/pdp1173.html

BA123:  http://gunkies.org/wiki/MicroPDP-11/83

[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Pete Turnbull]

Warner Losh wrote:
>  On 11/13/2010 18:03, Larry McVoy wrote:
>> Back in the day there was something called a microvax and I think there
>> was a micropdp - it was a tall slim thing.  Might google that.
> The MicroPDP11 was in more or less the same form factor as the MicroVAX 
> I and II (also marketed as VaxStation I and II).  It was also known as 
> something like the PDP 11/73.  A lower-end version was the Digital PRO 
> 350 and 360.

The MicroVAX and MicroVAX II postdate the microPDP-11 range (1985 and 
1982 resp.), but do indeed use the same boxes: BA23 floorstanding 
(sometimes called the space heater, because of its shape) and the larger 
BA123 with casters (sometimes called the hostess trolley because of its 
shape).  Anything else is not a microPDP-11, and any PDP-11 sold in one 
of those boxes is a microPDP-11 (as opposed to an 11T23, 11V23, etc). 
It's true that the BA23 chassis can be taken out of the floor cabinet 
and rack mounted but that's fairly unusual (I've only seen one that way, 
and it had been removed from its original floor case).

It's also true that you can convert a MicroVAX to a PDP-11 by swapping 
memory and CPU - but there are some VAXstations that you can't convert.

In general, the QBus machines are physically smaller and less 
power-hungry than Unibus systems and that's especially true of the 
microPDP-11s.  Of course it's certainly possible to have a small Unibus 
system or a big QBus one!

The first microPDP-11 was the microPDP-11/23 which is a variant of an 
11/23-plus in a BA23; it was followed by the microPDP-11/73, usually in 
a BA23, and soon after by the micro-PDP-11/83 (same processor, faster 
clock and different memory) in either a BA23 or BA123.  The 
microPDP-11/53 integrates the memory onto the CPU card and is cheaper 
but also slower.  Later came the 11/93, which is faster -- and that, 
along with it's Unibus cousin the 11/94, was the last PDP-11 made. 
There's also an 11/84 Unibus machine to match the 11/83, and although 
its always a rackmount machine it uses the same CPU and memory as the 
11/83 -- but a different CPU box with a different panel and a 
Unibus-to-Qbus converter.

The 11/73 that Greg's photos show is slightly unusual; it uses a BA-11 
chassis like earlier rackmount QBus machines.  You quite often find 
11/73s in that form as upgrades to what was previously an 11/03 or 11/23 
system.  The drive above the CPU box in Greg's system isn't original, 
and that rack was part of a system with a pair of RL02s.  If it was 
originally sold as an 11/73 it would be called an 11/73S (but I don't 
think it is, because 11/73S systems had a black decal on the front to 
say so), or if it was the result of a CPU upgrade, it would originally 
have been an 11T03 or 11T23 system - probably the latter.

You could get the 11/73 CPU card in two versions -- KDJ11-A is a 
dual-height card with just the processor and MMU; KDJ11-B is quad-height 
and incorporates serial ports, LTC, etc.  Similarly there are dual- and 
quad-height 11/23 cards called KDF11-A and KDF11-B.  The microPDP-11 
series always used the quad KDx11-B cards.

Rackmount PDP-11s usually have larger (physically) drives like 
RL01/RL02, RK06/7, RM0etc and/or RX01/2 floppies whereas the microPDP 
series normally have physically smaller RD or RZ series winchesters and 
RX50/33 5.25" drives and perhaps a TK or TZ series tape in a 5.25" form 
factor.

You can run 7th Edition on an 11/23 and up (I have an original 7th 
Edition machine which is an 11T23).  On anything less than 11/73 (like 
an 11/34, 11/23, etc) it has some limitations and needs some software 
tweaks (and an RL driver was not a standard piece of the code).  Mine 
has 256KB memory, two RL02s (10MB each) and an RX02 (dual 8" floppy), 
and even something as simple as "ls" is slow and accompanied by quite a 
lot of very audible disk access.  It would be better with more memory.

You can run BSD2.11 on an 11/73 and up (I've got that running on an 
11/83 in a BA23 box with 2MB of memory and a 150MB RD54 winchester). 
That runs quite well, and it's on my local Ethernet network.

The PRO-325 and -350 are desktop machines and aren't really PDP-11s, 
though they do have an F11 CPU chip (same chipset as 11/23 and 11/24, 
different board). I think you'd have a hard job running Unix on them as 
they have a lot of custom hardware and no QBus or Unibus.  Bitmapped 
graphics console, no DMA on any I/O devices, and a weird (for DEC) 
interrupt system.  They normally ran P/OS which is a highly modified 
version of DEC's RSX-11 operating system.  The later PRO-380 used a J11 
processor (as in 11/73,83,84,53 etc).

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Pat Villani]

This thread made me a little curious so I went to eBay and found an 11/44
there:


http://cgi.ebay.com/DEC-PDP11-44-Computer-Loaded-w-Cards-No-Reserve-/3902560
88856?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5add135718#shId

There's also an FPGA SoC on opencores.com that runs 5th edition UNIX and
2.11 BSD UNIX:

http://opencores.org/project,w11

The latter had been a little more than a passing interest for me, but I just
haven't had the time to play with it.

Pat


On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 7:38 PM, Tim Newsham <newsham at lava.net> wrote:
> How much does an old pdp-11 type system cost these
> days (ie. a pdp-11/40 with disks and terminal capable
> of running something like 1st, 6th or 7th ed)?
>
> How much power do they take up to power on?
> Whats maintenance like on those things?
>
> I've always been curious.
>
> Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
>

[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Nick Downing]

Greg, I am in Melbourne and very interested in the 11/73.  You might have
noticed in my earlier posts I'm a 2.11BSD experimenter, it would be really,
really great to have an 11 running 2.11BSD on my home network for
experiments.  Do you have a DEQNA?  It would be well looked after, though
space is a problem sometimes (as it is for everyone) and I may have to put
it in storage from time to time in my father's warehouse, I keep a lot of my
computer parts there.  Like you, I am keen to see these important artifacts
preserved.  If for some reason I couldn't keep it, I would probably donate
to the Australian Computer History Museum, the only problem with that is
they're in Sydney.  I would be really keen to see some of these computers
staying in Melbourne where enthusiasts could access them...
cheers, Nick
PS. My wife will be furious ;)

On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog at lemis.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, 13 November 2010 at 18:59:46 -0700, Warner Losh wrote:
> >  On 11/13/2010 18:03, Larry McVoy wrote:
> >> On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 02:38:29PM -1000, Tim Newsham wrote:
> >>> How much does an old pdp-11 type system cost these
> >>> days (ie. a pdp-11/40 with disks and terminal capable
> >>> of running something like 1st, 6th or 7th ed)?
> >>>
> >>> How much power do they take up to power on?
> >>> Whats maintenance like on those things?
> >>>
> >>> I've always been curious.
> >>
> >> Back in the day there was something called a microvax and I think there
> >> was a micropdp - it was a tall slim thing.  Might google that.
> >
> > The MicroPDP11 was in more or less the same form factor as the
> > MicroVAX I and II (also marketed as VaxStation I and II).  It was
> > also known as something like the PDP 11/73.
>
> I wasn't aware of a MicroPDP-11, but I have an LSI-11/73, photos at
>
> http://www.lemis.com/grog/photos/Photos.php?dirdate=20001122&imagesizes=112#Photo-2
> or
>
> http://www.lemis.com/grog/photos/Photos.php?dirdate=20061027&imagesizes=13#Photo-1
> Clearly it's a little larger than a MicroVAX.
>
> If anybody's interested, this machine is up for grabs.  I don't want
> any money for it, just the knowledge that it will be looked after.  It
> comes with a lot of tapes and (RL-02) disks, and also lots of
> documentation.  If anybody here in Australia wants it, you're welcome
> to come and pick it up.
>
> > I don't know if any of these ran Unix or not, but you might look
> > into them.  A few years ago, the PROs were really cheap and used
> > about the same power as a PC from 1985.
>
> This one does.  I gather the architecture  is identical to the
> PDP-11/73.  One of the tapes includes the 7th Edition.
>
> Greg
> --
> Finger grog at FreeBSD.org for PGP public key.
> See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
> This message is digitally signed.  See
> http://www.lemis.com/grog/email/signed-mail.php for more details.
> If your Microsoft MUA reports problems, please read
> http://tinyurl.com/broken-mua
>
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
>
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[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Larry McVoy]

On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 09:22:25AM +1100, Nick Downing wrote:
> [good stuff about preserving history...]
> cheers, Nick
> PS. My wife will be furious ;)

Oh, tell her it can always get worse.  4 chainsaws, a log splitter,
a tractor, an ATV, a truck, a van, a boxer motorcycle, a dual sport 
about to be dropped off, a work shop the size of a good sized apartment
filled w/ woodworking and metal working tools (and a well stocked fridge),
3 canoes, and a bunch of other stuff not even counting the geek stuff :)

It can get worse, much much worse :-)
-- 
---
Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitkeeper.com

[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Pete Turnbull]

Wilko Bulte wrote:
> 11/73:
> 
> http://www.chookfest.net/computers/pdp1173.html

Unfortunately a few things on that page are inaccurate.  For example, 
it's not exactly a PDP-11/83, it's really a microPDP-11/73, although the 
memory has been rearranged as the writer stated.  Both microPDP-11/73 
and /83 use KDJ11-B, the difference being that the /73 used 15MHz parts 
(as in that one) and the /83s which came later had 18MHz parts, and more 
importantly they have different boot ROMs.  However the other and 
arguably most important difference between /73 and /83 systems is that 
the /73s were originally set up with a normal QBus memory configuration, 
whereas /83s use PMI memory with the memory in front of the CPU instead 
of behind it.  The boards in this one have been re-ordered, and although 
having the CPU for a microPDP-11/73 it will mostly behave as a 
slightly-slow /83.

KDJ11-A boards were used as upgrades for rack-based 11/23s and OEM 
systems, not microPDP-11s.  So the one on that page is close to its 
original configuration, except for the Dilog SCSI controller and the 
memory arrangement.

-- 
Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						University of York

[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Wilko Bulte <wkb at xs4all.nl> writes:
> Pro350 was an 11/23 CPU (F11??), the Pro380 was an 11/73 CPU (J11?)

I believe I implemented this mapping in the PDP-11 target for the GNU
assembler:

KA11: 11/15, 11/20
KB11: 11/45, 11/50, 11/55, 11/70
KD11-A: 11/35, 11/40
KD11-B: 11/05, 11/10
KD11-D: 11/04
KD11-E: 11/34
KD11-F: 11/03
KD11-K: 11/60
KD11-Z: 11/44
T11: 11/21
F11: 11/23, 11/24
J11: 11/53, 11/73, 11/83, 11/84, 11/93, 11/94

Corrections, additions, explanations welcome.

[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Ian King]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1023 bytes --]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:tuhs-
> bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On Behalf Of Carl Lowenstein
> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 11:28 AM
> To: tuhs at tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] pdp11 question
> 
> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Norman Wilson <norman at oclsc.org>
> wrote:
> > Just to loop things around a bit:
> >
> > Some of the larger VAXes used small PDP-11s (and their
> > bastard offspring) as console processors.
> >
> > This started with the very first VAX, the 11/780, which
> > used an 11/23 as a console.  The console ran a stripped-down
> > system, possibly based on RT-11 or RSX-11, I forget (and
> > am typing this on a train in the Outer Mongolia part of
> > Texas where it's hard to look up references).
> 
> RT-11.  Original LSI-11 (quad card) or perhaps 11/2 (dual card).  The
> processor card that was used in a system called 11/03.
> 

Yup, LSI-11, the quad card - I had one open just a couple of years ago: rosencrantz.pdpplanet.com -- Ian 

[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Wilko Bulte]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
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Quoting Carl Lowenstein, who wrote on Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 11:27:31AM -0800 ..
> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Norman Wilson <norman at oclsc.org> wrote:
> > Just to loop things around a bit:
> >
> > Some of the larger VAXes used small PDP-11s (and their
> > bastard offspring) as console processors.
> >
> > This started with the very first VAX, the 11/780, which
> > used an 11/23 as a console.  The console ran a stripped-down
> > system, possibly based on RT-11 or RSX-11, I forget (and
> > am typing this on a train in the Outer Mongolia part of
> > Texas where it's hard to look up references).
> 
> RT-11.  Original LSI-11 (quad card) or perhaps 11/2 (dual card).  The
> processor card that was used in a system called 11/03.

I have an 11/2 card :)  It used to control the concrete mixing silos at the
company my father used to work for.  Came with 2x RX02.  I encountered RX02
disks I could not rotate in their sleeve anymore.  Too much sand and grit :)
Just cleaned the heads and vacumed out all the cement.  Worked just fine
ever after (in fact, it also worked fine with the cement & grit & whatever
:)

Wilko

[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Carl Lowenstein]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1044 bytes --]

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Norman Wilson <norman at oclsc.org> wrote:
> Just to loop things around a bit:
>
> Some of the larger VAXes used small PDP-11s (and their
> bastard offspring) as console processors.
>
> This started with the very first VAX, the 11/780, which
> used an 11/23 as a console.  The console ran a stripped-down
> system, possibly based on RT-11 or RSX-11, I forget (and
> am typing this on a train in the Outer Mongolia part of
> Texas where it's hard to look up references).

RT-11.  Original LSI-11 (quad card) or perhaps 11/2 (dual card).  The
processor card that was used in a system called 11/03.

11/780's predate 11/23's by a small number of years.

> I never knew a lot about this stuff and have forgotten much
> of what I did know, but perhaps my words will trigger others'
> memories.

Long time no hear from you.

    carl
-- 
    carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
                                                 clowenstein at ucsd.edu

[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Bill Pechter]

Actually the 11/780 and 11/785 used an 11V03.(I believe they had either 12
or 16k of memory to start and when upgrading to the 11/785 the console was
upgraded to either 16 or 28k.

  The OS was a very stripped down one.  It used an RT11 filesystem, but I
don't know if it was RT11 based.  I was told it wasn't.

The 11/750 was 8085 (IIRC) based.  The 11/730, I think, used an 8088 or 8086

The 8600/8650 used a T11 chip on a special board and ran  a version of RT11
IIRC.

The later (85xx) Vaxes often used left-over Pro350's and later Pro380's as
VAX consoles.

The biggest problem with RT11 on the Pro is they had to make the bitmap
display emulate a DEC standard terminal. (Not sure if it was VT100 or just
VT52 compatible...)

I gave away my Pro350.  They'll get my Vaxstation when they pry it from my
cold dead hands.  (Or my wife wins the argument).


Bill Pechter
been a long time since Field Circus...


On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Norman Wilson <norman at oclsc.org> wrote:

> Just to loop things around a bit:
>
> Some of the larger VAXes used small PDP-11s (and their
> bastard offspring) as console processors.
>
> This started with the very first VAX, the 11/780, which
> used an 11/23 as a console.  The console ran a stripped-down
> system, possibly based on RT-11 or RSX-11, I forget (and
> am typing this on a train in the Outer Mongolia part of
> Texas where it's hard to look up references).
>
> I don't know the whole list of what was used as a console
> for different VAXes, but I do remember that the Nautilus
> series (8500-8550-8700-8800) used either a Pro/350 or a
> Pro/380, running P/OS, which was slightly more satisfactory
> than the rude English non-computer expansion of PoS might
> imply, but only slightly.  Especially for those of us who
> wrote code to fit into UNIX on the VAX and talk to the
> console processor.
>
> I also vaguely remember that although Digital were
> reluctant (at least early on) to make an RT-11 that would
> run on the Pro-series systems, someone made a UNIX for
> those systems.
>
> I never knew a lot about this stuff and have forgotten much
> of what I did know, but perhaps my words will trigger others'
> memories.
>
> Norman Wilson
> Toronto ON
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
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[TUHS] pdp11 question

[Norman Wilson]

Just to loop things around a bit:

Some of the larger VAXes used small PDP-11s (and their
bastard offspring) as console processors.

This started with the very first VAX, the 11/780, which
used an 11/23 as a console.  The console ran a stripped-down
system, possibly based on RT-11 or RSX-11, I forget (and
am typing this on a train in the Outer Mongolia part of
Texas where it's hard to look up references).

I don't know the whole list of what was used as a console
for different VAXes, but I do remember that the Nautilus
series (8500-8550-8700-8800) used either a Pro/350 or a
Pro/380, running P/OS, which was slightly more satisfactory
than the rude English non-computer expansion of PoS might
imply, but only slightly.  Especially for those of us who
wrote code to fit into UNIX on the VAX and talk to the
console processor.

I also vaguely remember that although Digital were
reluctant (at least early on) to make an RT-11 that would
run on the Pro-series systems, someone made a UNIX for
those systems.

I never knew a lot about this stuff and have forgotten much
of what I did know, but perhaps my words will trigger others'
memories.

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON