The Unix Heritage Society mailing list
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: paul.winalski@gmail.com (Paul Winalski)
Subject: [TUHS] Why did PDPs become so popular?
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 19:07:21 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CABH=_VRV3qY+fyU9cFqLJGFYQ27S8wJntFgA8F+2ujVojPretA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAK7dMtAoa8bPWrY9z=Ch6_QfH4nJnq-YQpX4WHXFiyVLnLD5gw@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/27/17, Kevin Bowling <kevin.bowling at kev009.com> wrote:
> I understand IBM systems history a lot better, but it looks
> simplistically to me that, in business terms, DEC created or became
> the brand leader for a net new market for minicomputers rather than
> competing against the establish(ed, ing) market of large systems.

By the mid 1960s IBM had established a huge market presence and took
advantage of it to reap large profit margins by not passing along the
ever-decreasing manufacturing costs (corollary of Moore's law) to its
customers.  DEC, Data General, etc. were willing to accept lower
profit margins.  This allowed them to sell into new markets (e.g.,
small research groups) that IBM had priced themselves out of, and from
that base to make inroads into the general business marketplace.

>  I'm
> sure their marketers worked very hard to differentiate the systems
> from large systems, precisely because they didn't want to compete with
> anyone.

Not really, in my experience and from my perspective both as a DEC
customer and as a DEC development engineer.  DEC's original customer
base were experienced research engineers and scientists who knew what
they wanted and didn't have to be sold to.  Ken Olsen grew up simply
taking customer orders, and he never understood or really supported
marketing.  Lack of marketing skill eventually caught up to DEC by the
late 1980s and was a principal reason for its downfall.

In the days of the PDP-11 and VAX, DEC also didn't provide the level
of customer service, support, and hand-holding that IBM did (this was
part of the reason why IBM systems were so expensive).  Among IBM
customers the saying was, "minicomputers aren't sold, they're
abandoned".  When our VAX arrived in 1978, we were appalled at DEC's
inability to send on-site customer engineers to help us with software
problems.

Someone (Scott McNealy?) once said to survive a computer company has
to be prepared to eat its own children.  That is, to accept the
faster, lower cost technology as it comes along and not to try to
protect high profit margins on the older technology.  Minicomputers
ate the floor out from under mainframes, and IBM lost market dominance
by attempting to protect the mainframe cost structure.  PCs did the
same thing to minicomputers in the early 1990s, and DEC repeated IBM's
mistake by trying to defend against PCs instead of embracing them.

-Paul W.


  reply	other threads:[~2017-12-28  0:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 37+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <109152082.5216233.1514413535270.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
2017-12-27 22:25 ` Dave Ritchie
2017-12-27 22:32   ` Dave Horsfall
2017-12-27 23:44     ` Paul Winalski
2017-12-27 23:38   ` Kevin Bowling
2017-12-28  0:07     ` Paul Winalski [this message]
2017-12-28  0:45       ` Kevin Bowling
2017-12-28  1:39       ` Ron Natalie
2017-12-31  5:20 Rudi Blom
2017-12-31 12:56 ` Clement T. Cole
2017-12-31 15:03   ` Steve Simon
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2017-12-29 16:38 Larry McVoy
2017-12-29 23:54 ` Kevin Bowling
2017-12-30  0:04   ` Larry McVoy
2017-12-30  0:54   ` Lawrence Stewart
2017-12-30  1:47     ` Kevin Bowling
2017-12-30  2:19       ` Lawrence Stewart
2017-12-30  2:35         ` Paul Winalski
2017-12-30  2:20       ` Paul Winalski
2017-12-31  2:47     ` Henry Bent
2017-12-30  1:07   ` Ron Natalie
2017-12-30  2:30     ` Paul Winalski
2017-12-31  3:00       ` Henry Bent
2017-12-31  9:59         ` Arrigo Triulzi
2017-12-31 15:55         ` Paul Winalski
2017-12-28 14:05 Noel Chiappa
2017-12-28 15:59 ` Paul Winalski
2017-12-28 16:08   ` Larry McVoy
2017-12-28 23:28     ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-12-29 11:04       ` Kevin Bowling
2017-12-29 23:35         ` Jon Forrest
2017-12-29 23:58           ` Larry McVoy
2017-12-27 21:02 Alec Muffett
2017-12-27 21:50 ` Grant Taylor
2017-12-28  1:23   ` Alec Muffett
2017-12-27 21:51 ` Clem Cole
2017-12-27 21:52   ` Clem Cole
2017-12-28  2:14   ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to='CABH=_VRV3qY+fyU9cFqLJGFYQ27S8wJntFgA8F+2ujVojPretA@mail.gmail.com' \
    --to=paul.winalski@gmail.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).