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From: Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com>
To: Phil White <cerise-tuhs@hockeyphil.net>
Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] Depraz/Logitech Digimouse manual
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 10:24:14 +1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAKzdPgyxM2xD3VKmsN2MXsobVCny5q0RHrqb14a7ObN91sWTaA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20210806233353.GZ2781665@boogeyman.armory.com>

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I don't think anyone knows. Nobody relevant, I believe.

-rob


On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 9:33 AM Phil White <cerise-tuhs@hockeyphil.net>
wrote:

> I'm a little embarrassed to ask, but my curiosity demands I ask.  Who is
> that in the framed photograph near the ceiling and between the "Protect
> Your Password" and "UNIX International Member" posters?
>
> -Phil
>
> On Sat, Aug 07, 2021 at 07:53:48AM +1000, Rob Pike wrote:
> > I sent a picture (actually two at different resolutions; keep reading) to
> > the list, but being images they are larger than the address space of a
> > PDP-11 so not allowed here.
> >
> > Is it really necessary to have such a low message size limit in an era
> when
> > I can buy a terabyte of storage for less than a hundred bucks?
> >
> > Here is a Google Drive link, for the adventurous.
> >
> >
> >  20180123-UnixSkeleton.jpg
> > <
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aS8ZmzwPUawIa8WXGoXOK9jDiYtJETGG/view?usp=drive_web
> >
> >
> >
> > -rob
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 7:44 AM Rob Pike <robpike@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I sent a higher-res version in which you can read all the text but it
> was
> > > "moderated".
> > >
> > > This is the Unix room as of the year 2000 or so.
> > >
> > > -rob
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 4:34 AM ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> The story of the mice, one of which I gave to John:
> > >>
> > >> I ran a program called FAST-OS for LANL/Sandia for 6  years starting
> > >> 2005. Think of it as "Plan 9 on petaflop supercomputers" -- it may
> > >> seem strange now, but in that era when some top end systems ran custom
> > >> kernels, there was a strong case to be made that plan 9 was a good
> > >> choice. By 2011, of course, the Linux tsunami had swept all before it,
> > >> which is why you no longer hear about custom HPC kernels so much --
> > >> though in some places they still reign. In any event, this program
> > >> gave me 6 years to work with "the Unix room", or what was left of it.
> > >> I had been in the Unix Room in 1978, and even met Dennis, so this
> > >> prospect was quite a treat.
> > >>
> > >> We funded Charles Forsyth to write the amd64 compilers for Plan 9,
> > >> which if you used early Go you ran into (6c 6a 6l); we also funded the
> > >> amd64 port of Plan 9 (a.k.a. k10) as well as the port to Blue Gene.
> > >> That amd64 port is still out and about. You can find the Blue Gene
> > >> kernel on github.
> > >>
> > >> I had lots of fun spending time in the Unix room while working with
> > >> the late Jim McKie, and others. I saw the tail end of the traditions.
> > >> They had cookie day once a week, if memory serves, on Thursday at 3. I
> > >> got to see the backwards-running clock, Ken's chess trophies, his
> > >> pilot's license, pictures of Peter everywhere, a "Reagan's view of the
> > >> world" map, the American Legion award for Telstar (which was rescued
> > >> from a dumpster!), and so on. The "Unix room" was more than one room,
> > >> all built on a raised floor, as I assume it was former old school
> > >> machine room space. If memory serves, it filled the entire width of
> > >> the end of the top floor of the building it was in (4th floor?) --
> > >> maybe 50 ft x 50 ft -- maybe a bit more. There was a room with desks,
> > >> and a similar-sized room with servers, and a smaller room containing a
> > >> lab-style sink, a very professional cappucinno machine, decades of old
> > >> proceedings, and a sofa. I fixed the heavy-duty coffee grinder one
> > >> year; for some reason the Italian company that produced it had seen
> > >> fit to switch BOTH hot and neutral, and the fix was to only switch
> > >> hot, as the neutral switch had failed; I guess in the EU, with 220v,
> > >> things are done differently.
> > >>
> > >> It was fun being there. A few years later the whole room, and all its
> > >> history, was trashed, and replaced with what Jim called a "middle
> > >> management wxx dream" (Jim was never at a loss for words); Jim found
> > >> some yellow Police crime scene tape and placed it in front of the
> > >> doors to the new space. It was redubbed "the innovation space" or some
> > >> such, and looked kind of like an ikea showroom. Much was lost. I tried
> > >> to find a way to save the contents of the room; I had this dream of
> > >> recreating it at Google, much as John Wanamaker's office was preserved
> > >> in Philadelphia for so many decades, but I was too late. I have no
> > >> idea where the contents are now. Maybe next to the Ark.
> > >>
> > >> One day in 2008 or so jmk took me for a tour of the buildings, and we
> > >> at one point ended up high in the top floor of what I think was
> > >> Building One (since torn down?), in what used to be Lab Supply. Nobody
> > >> was there, and not much supply was there either. Finally somebody
> > >> wandered in, and Jim asked where everyone was. "Oh, they closed lab
> > >> supply, maybe 4 years ago?"
> > >>
> > >> Bell Labs had seen hard times since the Lucent split, and it was clear
> > >> it had not quite recovered, and Lab Supply was just one sign of it. I
> > >> think the saddest thing was seeing the visitor center, which I first
> > >> saw in 1976. In 1976, it was the seat of the Bell System Empire, and
> > >> it was huge. There was a map of the US with a light lit for every
> > >> switching office in the Bell Labs system. There was all kinds of Bell
> > >> Labs history in the visitor center museum.
> > >>
> > >> The museum had shrunk to a much smaller area, and felt like a closet.
> > >> The original transistor was still there in 2010, but little else.The
> > >> library was, similarly, changed: it was dark and empty, I was told.
> > >> Money was saved. At that time, Bell Labs felt large, strangely quiet,
> > >> and emptied of people. It made me think of post-sack Rome, ca. 600,
> > >> when its population was estimated to be 500. I have not been back
> > >> since 2011 so maybe things are very different. It would be nice if so.
> > >>
> > >> As part of this tour, Jim gave me 3 depraz mice. I took one, gutted
> > >> it, (sorry!), and filled its guts with a USB mouse innards, and gave
> > >> it back to Jim. He then had a Depraz USB mouse. jmk's mouse did not
> > >> have any lead in it, as John's did, however. The second I gave to
> > >> someone at Google who had worked at the labs back in the day. The
> > >> third mouse I gave to John, and he made it live again, which is cool.
> > >>
> > >> In spite of their reputation, I found Depraz mice hard to use. I have
> > >> gone through all kinds of mice, and am on an evoluent, and as far as
> > >> Depraz go, I guess "you had to be there". I don't recall if jmk used
> > >> his "usb depraz" or it ended up on a shelf. Sadly, I can no longer ask
> > >> him.
> > >>
> > >> I'll be interested to see what John thinks of the Depraz.
> > >>
> > >> ron
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 9:52 AM John Floren <john@jfloren.net> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Ah, right. I opened the mouse because one of the encoders didn't
> seem
> > >> to be working (it worked fine again this morning, who knows...) and
> > >> discovered that there was something duct taped inside the plastic
> shell:
> > >> >
> > >> > http://jfloren.net/content/depraz/inside.jpg
> > >> >
> > >> > Peeling back the tape, I saw what I first took to be chunks of
> > >> flattened beer cans:
> > >> >
> > >> > http://jfloren.net/content/depraz/reveal.jpg
> > >> >
> > >> > A closer look showed that they were the wrappers which cover the
> corks
> > >> of wine bottles. Up into the 1980s, these were made out of lead, and
> by
> > >> flattening five of them, a previous owner of the mouse was able to add
> > >> quite a bit of extra weight to it:
> > >> >
> > >> > http://jfloren.net/content/depraz/wrapper.jpg
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > john
> > >> >
> > >> > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> > >> >
> > >> > On Friday, August 6th, 2021 at 9:34 AM, ron minnich <
> rminnich@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > john, don't forget to mention the beer can
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 9:29 AM John Floren john@jfloren.net
> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > I stuck an Arduino on it and with surprisingly little code I
> have
> > >> it acting like a 3-button USB mouse.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > The only problem is that the pointer doesn't move smoothly. It
> does
> > >> OK left-to-right, and can move down pretty well, but going up is a
> problem.
> > >> I think pushing the mouse forward tends to move the ball away from the
> > >> Y-axis wheel, and the old spring on the tensioner just doesn't have
> the
> > >> gumption to hold that heavy ball bearing in any more.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > john
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > On Wednesday, August 4th, 2021 at 9:12 PM, ron minnich
> > >> rminnich@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > > John, you can see that "stick a bird on it" -> "stick an
> arduino
> > >> on
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > it" -> "stick a pi on it" has gone as you once predicted :-)
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 8:59 PM John Floren john@jfloren.net
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > On Wednesday, August 4th, 2021 at 6:12 PM, Henry Bent
> > >> henry.r.bent@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > On Wed, 4 Aug 2021 at 20:52, John Floren john@jfloren.net
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > Having just been given a Depraz mouse, I thought it
> would
> > >> be fun to get it working on my modern computer. Since the DE9
> connector is
> > >> male rather than female as you usually see with serial mice, and
> given its
> > >> age, I speculate that it might have a custom protocol; in any rate,
> > >> plugging it into a USB-serial converter and and firing up picocom has
> given
> > >> me nothing.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > Does anyone have a copy of a manual for it, or more
> > >> information on how to interface with it? If I knew how it was wired
> and
> > >> what the protocol looked like, I expect I could make an adapter pretty
> > >> trivially using a microcontroller.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > This might be of some help?
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >>
> https://www.vcfed.org/forum/forum/technical-support/vintage-computer-hardware/74403-whitechapel-mg-1-depraz-mouse-grey-pinout#post904391
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > -Henry
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > This looks great, thank you!
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > john
> > >>
> > >
>

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  reply	other threads:[~2021-08-07  0:25 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 20+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-08-05  0:51 John Floren
2021-08-05  1:12 ` Henry Bent
2021-08-05  3:58   ` John Floren
2021-08-05  4:12     ` ron minnich
2021-08-05  4:14       ` Bakul Shah
2021-08-06 16:27       ` John Floren
2021-08-06 16:34         ` ron minnich
2021-08-06 16:52           ` John Floren
2021-08-06 18:33             ` ron minnich
2021-08-06 19:16               ` Andrew Hume
2021-08-06 19:47                 ` William Cheswick
     [not found]               ` <CAKzdPgzZvMUBjGuar9cygk2UCmzzEAXDoGjscKF1CcG_6XAV5A@mail.gmail.com>
2021-08-06 21:49                 ` John Floren
2021-08-06 21:54                   ` Rob Pike
2021-08-06 21:53                 ` Rob Pike
2021-08-06 23:33                   ` Phil White
2021-08-07  0:24                     ` Rob Pike [this message]
     [not found]                       ` <CAKzdPgyxM2xD3VKmsN2MXsobVCny5q0RHrqb14a7ObN91sWTaA@mail.g mail.com>
2021-08-07 12:13                         ` John Foust via TUHS
2021-08-05  2:10 ` Bakul Shah
2021-08-06 23:48 Norman Wilson
2021-08-06 23:57 ` John Cowan

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