[TUHS] v6: where is "man"?

[TUHS] v6: where is "man"?

[Johnny Billquist]

On 10/20/10 04:00, Tim Newsham<newsham at lava.net> wrote:

> I'm playing with unix v6 right now.  I don't see the "man"
> binary anywhere.. anyone know why?
>
> I have v6 installed from tape. The tape has images for three
> disks apparently, root, source and docs. The docs image has
> a man directory with the man pages in them. I don't see a
> man binary anywhere though, and I don't see the sources to
> man in the sources directory either.
>
> I checked the disk images available on the simh "kits" page.
> It has man pages in /mnt/man but no sources or binary.
> (by the way, this image is missing /usr/sys for some reason,
> which is why I am running an installation from tape).
>
> I also checked the
> PDP-11/Trees/V6 directory on TUHS and similarly dont see
> sources or binaries for man (though the man pages are present
> in /usr/man).
>
> There's even a /usr/man/man1/man.1, formatted online here:
> http://wwwlehre.dhbw-stuttgart.de/~helbig/os/v6/doc/I/man.html
>
> anyone know why the source and binary are missing from the
> distributions?

What "man" binary? You use cat... You have the man-pages, you have a 
program (or several) to type files... Why would you need yet another 
program to type files?

	Johnny

[TUHS] v6: where is "man"?

[Tim Newsham]

> What "man" binary? You use cat... You have the man-pages, you have a program 
> (or several) to type files... Why would you need yet another program to type 
> files?

"man man" does more than "cat /usr/doc/man/man1/man.1".
(try it!)
It locates pages by man page section and it formats the
data using nroff.  See the "man" script I attached in an
earlier email for details.

> 	Johnny

Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com

[TUHS] v6: where is "man"?

[Johnny Billquist]

On 10/21/10 03:06, Tim Newsham wrote:
>> What "man" binary? You use cat... You have the man-pages, you have a
>> program (or several) to type files... Why would you need yet another
>> program to type files?
>
> "man man" does more than "cat /usr/doc/man/man1/man.1".
> (try it!)

Yes, it does a "$(PAGER) /usr/doc/man/cat1/man.0" :-)

> It locates pages by man page section and it formats the
> data using nroff. See the "man" script I attached in an
> earlier email for details.

Depends on lots of factors and versions.

Maybe I should have added a smiley. My point was that originally you 
didn't have a man program. You had man-pages, and you looked at them any 
way you preferred. And that is what you observed, but didn't seem to 
grasp, when you looked at V6 (hence the question about where the 
man-program is).

Short answer then: there is none.

	Johnny

[TUHS] v6: where is "man"?

[Tim Newsham]

> Yes, it does a "$(PAGER) /usr/doc/man/cat1/man.0" :-)

I don't think thats accurate in v6 unix (or many other
early research unixen). The man pages arent preformatted
into .0 files afaik.

> Maybe I should have added a smiley. My point was that originally you didn't 
> have a man program. You had man-pages, and you looked at them any way you 
> preferred. And that is what you observed, but didn't seem to grasp, when you 
> looked at V6 (hence the question about where the man-program is).
>
> Short answer then: there is none.

I don't think that is accurate.

> 	Johnny

Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com

[TUHS] v6: where is "man"?

[Warner Losh]

In message: <20101020052532.GA5690 at minnie.tuhs.org>
            Warren Toomey <wkt at tuhs.org> writes:
: On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 03:16:37PM -1000, Tim Newsham wrote:
: > I'm playing with unix v6 right now.  I don't see the "man"
: > binary anywhere.. anyone know why?
: 
: The v6 man.1 manpage says "[man] is a shell command file",
: so there is no source code, just the shell script.
: Still, that doesn't explain why the script file missing.
: It's not on the Dennis_v6 tape, nor the Ken_Wellsch_v6
: tape in the archive. Intruiging!

That's very interesting indeed.  FreeBSD has gone "back to the future"
here and replaced the man program that called groff, et al, with a
shell script.  Given the complexity of the shell script, however, I
imagine it wouldn't work too well on v6. :)

Warner

[TUHS] v6: where is "man"?

[Tim Newsham]

> I just booted up the interdata version and... it doesn't have 'man'
> either...
>
> I get the impression from /usr/doc/man   that the man pages on the ID32 were
> setup with a 'make' command to format and print them all....
>
> I guess the man command didn't exist...????

Why is there a man page for it?

By the way, I found a /usr/bin/man command in
PDP-11/Distributions/other/Tim_Shoppa_v6
in the unix_v6.rl02 image.  Oddly, it uses "cd" instead
of "chdir" and doesnt run in the normal v6 shell!
(cut and pasted in the attached file).
It also uses "set" which isnt supported in v6.
Although, it does look like a pre-v7 shell script
by the control flow constructs and lack of variables.
(compare to /bin/man in V7, which is a new style shell
script which wont run in V6).

There's also a /usr/ucb/man binary present.  I haven't
tried it in stock v6.

Its pretty easy to boot the Tim_Shoppa_v6 image,
just un-gzip it and use:

   set cpu 11/23
   set tto 7b
   attach rl0 unix_v6.rl02
   boot rl0

in simh.  At the boot prompt enter "unix".

Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com
-------------- next part --------------
cd /usr/doc/man
if $1x = x goto nope
        set b = 1
if ! -r man$1 goto sect1
        set b = $1
        shift
: sect1
        if -r /mnt/webb/doc/$1.$b goto man
        if -r man$b/$1.$b goto oldman
        if -r /etc/help/$1 goto ok
        if $b != 1 goto notcmd
        if -r /bin/$1 -o -r /usr/bin/$1 goto iscmd
        echo $1 "is not a command"
        goto loop
: iscmd
: notcmd
        echo "Sorry, manual page" $1 "is not available."
        goto loop
: man
        chdir /mnt/webb/doc
        fmt -term --u $1.$b
        goto loop
: oldman
        chdir man$b
        nroff -mm $1.$b ^ iul
        goto loop
: oldman0
        chdir man$b
        nroff -mm $1 ^ iul
        goto loop
: ok
help $1 </dev/tty
goto loop
: nope
echo "usage: man [section] name"
echo "The following manual pages exist (in form name.section)"
f /mnt/webb/doc
exit
: loop
shift
cd /usr/doc/man
if $1x != x goto sect1
exit

[TUHS] v6: where is "man"?

[Jason Stevens]

I just booted up the interdata version and... it doesn't have 'man'
either...

I get the impression from /usr/doc/man   that the man pages on the ID32 were
setup with a 'make' command to format and print them all....

I guess the man command didn't exist...????

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Warren Toomey <wkt at tuhs.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 03:16:37PM -1000, Tim Newsham wrote:
> > I'm playing with unix v6 right now.  I don't see the "man"
> > binary anywhere.. anyone know why?
>
> The v6 man.1 manpage says "[man] is a shell command file",
> so there is no source code, just the shell script.
> Still, that doesn't explain why the script file missing.
> It's not on the Dennis_v6 tape, nor the Ken_Wellsch_v6
> tape in the archive. Intruiging!
>
> Cheers,
>         Warren
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
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[TUHS] v6: where is "man"?

[Warren Toomey]

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 03:16:37PM -1000, Tim Newsham wrote:
> I'm playing with unix v6 right now.  I don't see the "man"
> binary anywhere.. anyone know why?

The v6 man.1 manpage says "[man] is a shell command file",
so there is no source code, just the shell script.
Still, that doesn't explain why the script file missing.
It's not on the Dennis_v6 tape, nor the Ken_Wellsch_v6
tape in the archive. Intruiging!

Cheers,
	Warren

[TUHS] v6: where is "man"?

[Tim Newsham]

I'm playing with unix v6 right now.  I don't see the "man"
binary anywhere.. anyone know why?

I have v6 installed from tape. The tape has images for three
disks apparently, root, source and docs. The docs image has
a man directory with the man pages in them. I don't see a
man binary anywhere though, and I don't see the sources to
man in the sources directory either.

I checked the disk images available on the simh "kits" page.
It has man pages in /mnt/man but no sources or binary.
(by the way, this image is missing /usr/sys for some reason,
which is why I am running an installation from tape).

I also checked the
PDP-11/Trees/V6 directory on TUHS and similarly dont see
sources or binaries for man (though the man pages are present
in /usr/man).

There's even a /usr/man/man1/man.1, formatted online here:
http://wwwlehre.dhbw-stuttgart.de/~helbig/os/v6/doc/I/man.html

anyone know why the source and binary are missing from the
distributions?

Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com