[pups] 2.11BSD networking on simh

[pups] 2.11BSD networking on simh

[Andru Luvisi]

I have gotten 2.11 installed on simh, I have it recognizing the simulated
ethernet card, and everything appears correct except the packets just
aren't getting in and out.  The simh documentation says that the DELQA
card is better than the DEQNA, but I was unable to get the DELQA (qt)
driver to recognize the card.  When I compiled the kernel to use the DEQNA
(qe) driver and set the card up in DEQNA mode, the emulated card and its
ethernet address were correctly detected.

I have configured 2.11BSD with:
  A valid IP address on the network the host is on.
  The same netmask, broadcast, and gateway as the host.

I am running the emulator as root.

I have attached the DEQNA to the appropriate ethernet card.  I can see the
ethernet card go into promiscuous mode when I start the emulator.

I have tested it with SANITY=ON and SANITY=OFF.

The docs say you won't be able to talk between the host and the emulated
machine, so my test for each configuration has been pinging the gateway,
which I know responds to pings since I can ping it from the host.

I have been over both the 2.11BSD docs and the simh docs several times and
as far as I can tell I am doing everything correctly.  I would appreciate
any hints that any of you can offer.

Thanks,
Andru

Quote Of The Moment:
  Appel's method avoids making a large number of small trampoline bounces
  by occasionally jumping off the Empire State Building.
                  -- Henry G. Baker, "Cheney on the M.T.A."

[pups] 2.11BSD networking on simh

[Gregg C Levine]

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Hello from Gregg C Levine
I've been trying to get that notion to work, since it was announced.
Can you post an explanation, regarding how you constructed your 2.11
setup? Was it built from disk dumps, or from one of the previously
built, and stored collections, on the Minnie, file server? Also, a
posting of the startup script would be nice, along with what you are
running this on. That way, we can possibly reproduce your problems for
ourselves. Especially since this is one of my personal projects. And
most importantly of all, what was the date on your simh download?
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
On
> Behalf Of Andru Luvisi
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 8:20 PM
> To: pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simh
> 
> I have gotten 2.11 installed on simh, I have it recognizing the
simulated
> ethernet card, and everything appears correct except the packets just
> aren't getting in and out.  The simh documentation says that the DELQA
> card is better than the DEQNA, but I was unable to get the DELQA (qt)
> driver to recognize the card.  When I compiled the kernel to use the
DEQNA
> (qe) driver and set the card up in DEQNA mode, the emulated card and
its
> ethernet address were correctly detected.
> 
> I have configured 2.11BSD with:
>   A valid IP address on the network the host is on.
>   The same netmask, broadcast, and gateway as the host.
> 
> I am running the emulator as root.
> 
> I have attached the DEQNA to the appropriate ethernet card.  I can see
the
> ethernet card go into promiscuous mode when I start the emulator.
> 
> I have tested it with SANITY=ON and SANITY=OFF.
> 
> The docs say you won't be able to talk between the host and the
emulated
> machine, so my test for each configuration has been pinging the
gateway,
> which I know responds to pings since I can ping it from the host.
> 
> I have been over both the 2.11BSD docs and the simh docs several times
and
> as far as I can tell I am doing everything correctly.  I would
appreciate
> any hints that any of you can offer.
> 
> Thanks,
> Andru
> 
> Quote Of The Moment:
>   Appel's method avoids making a large number of small trampoline
bounces
>   by occasionally jumping off the Empire State Building.
>                   -- Henry G. Baker, "Cheney on the M.T.A."
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

[pups] 2.11BSD networking on simh

[Andru Luvisi]

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> Hello from Gregg C Levine
> I've been trying to get that notion to work, since it was announced.
> Can you post an explanation, regarding how you constructed your 2.11
> setup? Was it built from disk dumps, or from one of the previously
> built, and stored collections, on the Minnie, file server?

I used the files from PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/ in the collection
and built a tape image using a short perl script which I attached as
"mktap.pl".  I got the file format from the comments in the "mtdump"
program from the "simtools.zip" archive (on simh.trailing-edge.com), and
how to put the files onto the tape from the HOWTO file in the 2.11BSD
directory.  From there I pretty much just followed the HOWTO.

The system is mostly functional.  fsck still complains about a file that
it creates.  I stuck it all in one 128 meg file system, so I'm thinking of
making another disk and file system just to stick the fsck temporary file
on during boot.

> Also, a
> posting of the startup script would be nice, along with what you are
> running this on. That way, we can possibly reproduce your problems for
> ourselves. Especially since this is one of my personal projects. And
> most importantly of all, what was the date on your simh download?

I'm running it on a Linux 2.2 box.  My ethernet card is a 3c905B in case
it matters.  I have attached my startup file as "simh".

I am using simhv210-1.zip, which as I write this is still the latest one
on the site.

Any ideas to try?  Hve you had any luck?

Andru
-- 
Andru Luvisi, Programmer/Analyst

Quote Of The Moment:
  Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from
  mediocre minds.
                  -- Albert Einstein
  
  They laughed at Einstein.  They laughed at the Wright Brothers.
  But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
                  -- Carl Sagan
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set tto 7b

set dz lines=8
set dz 7b
attach -am dz 4000

set ts enable
set rq enable

set RK disable
set HK disable
set TC disable
set TM disable

set xq type=deqna
set xq mac=00-50-56-01-01-01
set xq sanity=on
attach xq eth0

set cpu 3072k
attach rq root.dsk
boot rq

[pups] 2.11BSD networking on simh

[Andru Luvisi]

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Andru Luvisi wrote:
[snip]
> From there I pretty much just followed the HOWTO.
[snip]

I forgot to mention:  My other primary reference  was
PDP-11/Documentation/2.11bsd_setup.txt from the archive.

Andru
-- 
Andru Luvisi, Programmer/Analyst

Quote Of The Moment:
  When some people discover the truth, they just can't understand why
  everybody isn't eager to hear it.

[pups] 2.11BSD networking on simh

[Andru Luvisi]

I finally tracked it down with strace.  The send() function was
complaining about not being connected.

By changing it to a sendto and providing some hard coded data I was able
to make it work.  Obviously this is not the "correct" solution, but it
illustrates the problem.

Here's the patch:

--- sim_ether.c.org     Mon Dec  2 12:43:49 2002
+++ sim_ether.c Mon Dec  2 13:51:47 2002
@@ -406,7 +406,9 @@

 int pcap_sendpacket(pcap_t* handle, u_char* msg, int len)
 {
-  return (send(pcap_fileno(handle), msg, len, 0) == len)?0:-1;
+  struct sockaddr_pkt spkt = { AF_INET, "eth0", -1 };
+  return (sendto(pcap_fileno(handle), msg, len, 0,
+                 (struct sockaddr *)&spkt, sizeof(spkt)) == len)?0:-1;
 }

 int PacketGetAdapterNames(char* buffer, int* size)

[pups] 2.11BSD networking on simh

[Andru Luvisi]

On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
> Hi -
>
> > From: Andru Luvisi <luvisi at andru.sonoma.edu>
> > I have gotten 2.11 installed on simh, I have it recognizing the simulated
> > ethernet card, and everything appears correct except the packets just
> > aren't getting in and out.  The simh documentation says that the DELQA
> > card is better than the DEQNA, but I was unable to get the DELQA (qt)
> > driver to recognize the card.  When I compiled the kernel to use the DEQNA
>
> 	There are TWO variants of the DELQA as I recall.   One was referred
> 	to as the "turbo" verion (I think it was called the DELQA-YM) and
> 	the if_qt driver was developed and tested specifically for, and only
> 	for, that variant.   The normal DELQA and DEQNA should use the if_qe
> 	driver.

The qe driver does appear to recognize the DELQA.  Same results as with
the DEQNA.  It sees it, recognizes the ethernet address I configured it
with, and the network configuration all seems to work, but once it's all
up I can't get anywhere.

> > I have configured 2.11BSD with:
> >   A valid IP address on the network the host is on.
> >   The same netmask, broadcast, and gateway as the host.
>
> > I am running the emulator as root.
> >
> > The docs say you won't be able to talk between the host and the emulated
>
> 	Hmmm, that seems strange.   Using P11 I talk between the host (the
> 	machine running the emulator program) and the "PDP11" all the time.
>
> 	Ah, it has to do with ARP handling I suspect.  I know that with P11
> 	it's IP only and thus ARP packets do not traverse the emulated ethernet
> 	card.   If that is the case with simh as well then on the PDP11 side
> 	you might have to do what I did and install arp entries for everything
> 	on the local lan with which the PDP11 is going to communicate.   That
> 	way the 11 already knows the 'mac' address and does not need ARP (which
> 	doesn't work thru the emulated ethernet) at all.

I couldn't say.  I just tried setting the arp information for the gateway
in 2.11BSD, but to no avail.

> > machine, so my test for each configuration has been pinging the gateway,
> > which I know responds to pings since I can ping it from the host.
>
> 	Ah, but on the host did you publish an ARP entry so that the host
> 	will arp for the PDP11?   I think that is required.

I just tried it, also to no avail.

> 	I would tinker around with installing published/proxy arp entries and
> 	seeing what happens.

tcpdump isn't showing me any packets coming from or to the IP or ethernet
address of the emulated PDP-11.

Andru
-- 
Andru Luvisi, Programmer/Analyst


Quote Of The Moment:
  "Taking the envelope and pencil in his otherwise empty hands, the
  medium feels it, stares into space, grunts, foams at the mouth, and
  otherwise becomes very psychic."
  	- Theodore Annemann

[pups] 2.11BSD networking on simh

[Steven M. Schultz]

Hi -

> From: Andru Luvisi <luvisi at andru.sonoma.edu>
> I have gotten 2.11 installed on simh, I have it recognizing the simulated
> ethernet card, and everything appears correct except the packets just
> aren't getting in and out.  The simh documentation says that the DELQA
> card is better than the DEQNA, but I was unable to get the DELQA (qt)
> driver to recognize the card.  When I compiled the kernel to use the DEQNA

	There are TWO variants of the DELQA as I recall.   One was referred
	to as the "turbo" verion (I think it was called the DELQA-YM) and
	the if_qt driver was developed and tested specifically for, and only
	for, that variant.   The normal DELQA and DEQNA should use the if_qe
	driver.

> I have configured 2.11BSD with:
>   A valid IP address on the network the host is on.
>   The same netmask, broadcast, and gateway as the host.

> I am running the emulator as root.
> 
> The docs say you won't be able to talk between the host and the emulated

	Hmmm, that seems strange.   Using P11 I talk between the host (the
	machine running the emulator program) and the "PDP11" all the time.

	Ah, it has to do with ARP handling I suspect.  I know that with P11
	it's IP only and thus ARP packets do not traverse the emulated ethernet
	card.   If that is the case with simh as well then on the PDP11 side
	you might have to do what I did and install arp entries for everything
	on the local lan with which the PDP11 is going to communicate.   That
	way the 11 already knows the 'mac' address and does not need ARP (which
	doesn't work thru the emulated ethernet) at all.

> machine, so my test for each configuration has been pinging the gateway,
> which I know responds to pings since I can ping it from the host.

	Ah, but on the host did you publish an ARP entry so that the host
	will arp for the PDP11?   I think that is required.    

	I would tinker around with installing published/proxy arp entries and
	seeing what happens.

	Cheers,
	Steven Schultz
	sms at 2bsd.com