[TUHS] Emulators

[TUHS] Emulators

[Sergey Lapin]

Hi all!!!

While educating people some unix stuff (at time, spare from work as 
admin), I have a need for making some simple UNIX-like  environment for 
people to try to type some simple commands. Now I need to make it possible 
to do it remotely. Are there any emulators, that are capable to run V5/6/7 
or (better) 4.2BSD, and accessible by telnet or something like that?
Additional thing I need is vi, any emulator that is capable of
running vi could make me happy!!! 

Emulation is needed because of unlimited virtualization possibility, 
unlimited variation of configurations, and, of course, zero time for 
recover after root errors. simh runs fast 60 instances on P233.

But now I need vi :(

Thanks a lot!

S.

[TUHS] Emulators

[José R. Valverde]

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On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:22:28 +0400 (MSD)
Sergey Lapin <slapin at drevlanka.ru> wrote:
> Hi all!!!
> 
> While educating people some unix stuff (at time, spare from work as 
> admin), I have a need for making some simple UNIX-like  environment for 
> people to try to type some simple commands. Now I need to make it possible 
> to do it remotely. Are there any emulators, that are capable to run V5/6/7 
> or (better) 4.2BSD, and accessible by telnet or something like that?
> Additional thing I need is vi, any emulator that is capable of
> running vi could make me happy!!! 
> 
I think you can do this with SIMH. Various scenarios come to mind:
UNIX v5/6/7
	AFAIK you don't have support for IP on these by default, hence

	- separate instances for each user: this requires multiplying
the UNIX disks for each user, hence requires more space. OTOH, starting
the system reduces to writing a script to start simh and calling it
from the login script

	- many users sharing the same instance: there's only one copy of
the system and everybody logs-in on it, saves space, but takes more work.
You can set up simh to attach a number of serial lines to telnet ports
and ask people to telnet to those ports. This is akin to coming into a
computer room and looking for a free terminal (only you can't see until
you try). This may be enhanced substituting the login script of a normal
account by a new one that tries the ports in turn looking for a free one
automatically.

4.x BSD, ULTRIX 3.1, 2.11bsd
	I've been able to run 4.3 from TUHS images without any problem.
I configured the network following the standard procedures and using a
valid IP, and it works as a standalone machines allowing incoming/outgoing
IP connections. No problem here.

> Emulation is needed because of unlimited virtualization possibility, 
> unlimited variation of configurations, and, of course, zero time for 
> recover after root errors. simh runs fast 60 instances on P233.
> 
> But now I need vi :(
> 

That's a toughie. VI is big and demands a lot from the system (on ancient
machines). You'll need to configure them with extra memory.. It does not
depend on the emulator itself, mind you, but on the operating system 
providing the required support libraries. 

There are small-footprint editors around, but most I found require curses
so you'd need to port curses back to these ancient systems.

There is a simplistic vi-clone called s whose source code appeared in "A 
Software Tools Sampler", by Web Miller. You can get the sources from his
site
	http://globin.cse.psu.edu/globin/html/software.html

The book says it worked on 4.x BSD. I was back-porting it to V7 just
before holidays but found some problems and left it until I find more
spare time to work on it.

If you can get it to work or find another one that works, let us know, I
for one would welcome it.

				j
-- 
	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!

			    José R. Valverde

	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

[TUHS] Emulators

[Tim Newsham]

> > to do it remotely. Are there any emulators, that are capable to run V5/6/7
> > or (better) 4.2BSD, and accessible by telnet or something like that?

As was pointed out, you dont get tcp/ip with v5/6/7.
4.2BSD does not run on the simh hardware, although you can
get quasijarus (4.3BSD) to run.

> > Additional thing I need is vi, any emulator that is capable of
> > running vi could make me happy!!!

You can run vi in quasijarus.

> 	- many users sharing the same instance: there's only one copy of
> the system and everybody logs-in on it, saves space, but takes more work.

You can't do this with v5/v6/v7 (at least with the pdp-11) since they
dont support the multi-serial card that simh emulates.  You only
get the console (which you can access over telnet if you configure
it so).

I don't remember if you can use the interdata32 port with multiple
ttys.

You can do this in quasijarus just fine, or even just run telnetd
on the emulated system itself.

Tim N.

[TUHS] Emulators

[Warren Toomey]

On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 03:22:28PM +0400, Sergey Lapin wrote:
> Emulation is needed because of unlimited virtualization possibility, 
> unlimited variation of configurations, and, of course, zero time for 
> recover after root errors. simh runs fast 60 instances on P233.
> But now I need vi :(

You can build my Apout emulator to run 2.11BSD binaries. Then write a
front-end .profile shell script to invoke/exec Apout at login time. The
nice thing with Apout is that there is zero CPU usage unless you are
actually running commands.

http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Emulators/Apout/

	Warren

[TUHS] Emulators

[Sergey Lapin]

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Tim Newsham wrote:

> > > to do it remotely. Are there any emulators, that are capable to run V5/6/7
> > > or (better) 4.2BSD, and accessible by telnet or something like that?
> 
> As was pointed out, you dont get tcp/ip with v5/6/7.
> 4.2BSD does not run on the simh hardware, although you can
> get quasijarus (4.3BSD) to run.
I've got Quasijarus up and running on simh and experimented a lot with it.
Got some fun with learn(1) program, while ex lessons are quite nasty at 
end :)

Well, but it is quite a resource hog comparing to V7.
So there are questions: is there vi for V7? I heard 1BSD, as set of 
patches/software for V7, contains one, but I might be wrong...
Also, as for simh and Quasijarus:
Is it possible to run simh using tap or other virtual interface to forward 
some 
ports to Quazijarus's services?
The machine, I'll host this stuff on will be on colocation and policy 
there is no MAC address changes and no promisceous mode interfaces and no 
additional ethernet cards...

If that will work, I'll go write socket redirector program (to get free 
consoles from one port using simh) :)

Also are there any ppp/slip software for V7 and 4.3BSD?
This way a problem could be solved other way around...

> 
> > > Additional thing I need is vi, any emulator that is capable of
> > > running vi could make me happy!!!
> 
> You can run vi in quasijarus.
The best could be have vi under V7 also.

> 
> > 	- many users sharing the same instance: there's only one copy of
> > the system and everybody logs-in on it, saves space, but takes more work.
> 
> You can't do this with v5/v6/v7 (at least with the pdp-11) since they
> dont support the multi-serial card that simh emulates.  You only
> get the console (which you can access over telnet if you configure
> it so).
Does V7 support several serial lines to put getty on? Does simh provide 
such a hardware for it?


> 
> I don't remember if you can use the interdata32 port with multiple
> ttys.
Will check that soon.

> 
> You can do this in quasijarus just fine, or even just run telnetd
> on the emulated system itself.
I can't have dedicated ethernet card for it :(

Thanks a lot!!!

S.

[TUHS] Emulators

[Tim Newsham]

> Is it possible to run simh using tap or other virtual interface to forward
> some
> ports to Quazijarus's services?
> The machine, I'll host this stuff on will be on colocation and policy
> there is no MAC address changes and no promisceous mode interfaces and no
> additional ethernet cards...

I'm betting the changes wouldn't be that hard.  /dev/tun is really
easy to use, and should only involve a few lines of change.

If you don't really need networking, but just want remote access,
you can set simh up to have multiple tty's that use listening
sockets on the local machine.  Then people can telnet in to the
machine, but will reach a tty instead of a telnetd/pty.  Of course
there would be no outgoing traffic allowed.

Tim N.

[TUHS] Emulators

[Kenneth Stailey]

--- Sergey Lapin <slapin at drevlanka.ru> wrote:

> Hi all!!!
> 
> While educating people some unix stuff (at time, spare from work as 
> admin), I have a need for making some simple UNIX-like  environment for 
> people to try to type some simple commands. Now I need to make it possible 
> to do it remotely. Are there any emulators, that are capable to run V5/6/7 
> or (better) 4.2BSD, and accessible by telnet or something like that?
> Additional thing I need is vi, any emulator that is capable of
> running vi could make me happy!!! 
> 
> Emulation is needed because of unlimited virtualization possibility, 
> unlimited variation of configurations, and, of course, zero time for 
> recover after root errors. simh runs fast 60 instances on P233.
> 
> But now I need vi :(
> 
> Thanks a lot!
> 
> S.

SIMH lets you put the console on a telnet session so a single user can access
any OS that does console I/O over the network.  Not as good as TCP/IP in the
OS.

Harti's p11 PDP-11 emulator is the very best for running 2.11BSD with TCP/IP

http://people.freebsd.org/~harti/

When the CPU is running the idle loop p11 suspends so no wasted CPU.

[TUHS] Emulators

[Warren Toomey]

On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 09:46:47AM -0700, Kenneth Stailey wrote:
> Harti's p11 PDP-11 emulator is the very best for running 2.11BSD with TCP/IP
> http://people.freebsd.org/~harti/
> When the CPU is running the idle loop p11 suspends so no wasted CPU.

Hmm, the same as Apout :-)
	Warren