The Unix Heritage Society mailing list
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
* [TUHS] Happy birthday, PDP-8!
@ 2017-03-27  0:31 Noel Chiappa
  2017-03-27  0:37 ` Arthur Krewat
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Noel Chiappa @ 2017-03-27  0:31 UTC (permalink / raw)


    > From: Dave Horsfall

    > And as for subroutine calls on the -8, let's not go there...  As I dimly
    > recall, it planted the return address into the first word of the called
    > routine and jumped to the second instruction; to return, you did an
    > indirect jump to the first word.

That do be correct.

That style of subroutine call goes back a _long_ way. IIRC, Whirlwind used
that kind of linkage (alas, I've misplaced my copy of the Whirlwind
instruction manual, sigh - a real tresure).

ISTVR there was something about the way Whirlwind did it that made it clear
how it came to be the way it was - IIRC, the last instruction in the
subroutine was normally a 'jump to literal' (i.e. a constant, in the
instruction), and the Whirlwind 'jump to subroutine' stored the return address
in a register; there was a special instruction (normally the first one in any
subroutine) that stored the low-order N bits of that register in the literal
field of the last instruction: i.e. self-modifying code.

The PDP-6 (of which the PDP-10 was a clone) was on the border of that period;
it had both types of subroutine linkage (store the return in the destination,
and jump to dest+1; and also push the return on the stack).

	Noel


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Happy birthday, PDP-8!
  2017-03-27  0:31 [TUHS] Happy birthday, PDP-8! Noel Chiappa
@ 2017-03-27  0:37 ` Arthur Krewat
  2017-03-27 12:05 ` Tim Bradshaw
  2017-03-27 13:45 ` [TUHS] Subroutine calling conventions - was " Toby Thain
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Arthur Krewat @ 2017-03-27  0:37 UTC (permalink / raw)


Um. More like a natural progression.

Like 8086->80186->80286->80386->80486->...

On 3/26/2017 8:31 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> The PDP-6 (of which the PDP-10 was a clone)



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Happy birthday, PDP-8!
  2017-03-27  0:31 [TUHS] Happy birthday, PDP-8! Noel Chiappa
  2017-03-27  0:37 ` Arthur Krewat
@ 2017-03-27 12:05 ` Tim Bradshaw
  2017-03-27 13:35   ` Tony Finch
  2017-03-27 21:37   ` Terry Smith
  2017-03-27 13:45 ` [TUHS] Subroutine calling conventions - was " Toby Thain
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Tim Bradshaw @ 2017-03-27 12:05 UTC (permalink / raw)


On 27 Mar 2017, at 01:31, Noel Chiappa <jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
> 
> 
> That style of subroutine call goes back a _long_ way. IIRC, Whirlwind used
> that kind of linkage (alas, I've misplaced my copy of the Whirlwind
> instruction manual, sigh - a real tresure).

This is how subroutines worked on EDSAC.  It might go back further than this, but it can't go back much further.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Happy birthday, PDP-8!
  2017-03-27 12:05 ` Tim Bradshaw
@ 2017-03-27 13:35   ` Tony Finch
  2017-03-27 21:37   ` Terry Smith
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Tony Finch @ 2017-03-27 13:35 UTC (permalink / raw)


Tim Bradshaw <tfb at tfeb.org> wrote:
>
> This is how subroutines worked on EDSAC.  It might go back further than
> this, but it can't go back much further.

I found this rather good survey of early subroutine linkage:
https://people.cs.clemson.edu/~mark/subroutines.html

Turing designed a stack-based linkage for the ACE, a few years before
Wheeler invented the EDSAC subroutine linkage.

Tony.
-- 
f.anthony.n.finch  <dot at dotat.at>  http://dotat.at/  -  I xn--zr8h punycode
Irish Sea: East, veering south later, 4 or 5. Smooth or slight, occasionally
moderate later in south. Showers later. Good.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Subroutine calling conventions - was Re:  Happy birthday, PDP-8!
  2017-03-27  0:31 [TUHS] Happy birthday, PDP-8! Noel Chiappa
  2017-03-27  0:37 ` Arthur Krewat
  2017-03-27 12:05 ` Tim Bradshaw
@ 2017-03-27 13:45 ` Toby Thain
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Toby Thain @ 2017-03-27 13:45 UTC (permalink / raw)


On 2017-03-26 8:31 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>     > From: Dave Horsfall
>
>     > And as for subroutine calls on the -8, let's not go there...  As I dimly
>     > recall, it planted the return address into the first word of the called
>     > routine and jumped to the second instruction; to return, you did an
>     > indirect jump to the first word.
>
> That do be correct.
>
> That style of subroutine call goes back a _long_ way. IIRC, Whirlwind used
> that kind of linkage (alas, I've misplaced my copy of the Whirlwind
> instruction manual, sigh - a real tresure).

This link arrived in my twitter feed this morning.
https://people.cs.clemson.edu/~mark/subroutines.html

--T

>
> ISTVR there was something about the way Whirlwind did it that made it clear
> how it came to be the way it was - IIRC, the last instruction in the
> subroutine was normally a 'jump to literal' (i.e. a constant, in the
> instruction), and the Whirlwind 'jump to subroutine' stored the return address
> in a register; there was a special instruction (normally the first one in any
> subroutine) that stored the low-order N bits of that register in the literal
> field of the last instruction: i.e. self-modifying code.
>
> The PDP-6 (of which the PDP-10 was a clone) was on the border of that period;
> it had both types of subroutine linkage (store the return in the destination,
> and jump to dest+1; and also push the return on the stack).
>
> 	Noel
>



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Happy birthday, PDP-8!
  2017-03-27 12:05 ` Tim Bradshaw
  2017-03-27 13:35   ` Tony Finch
@ 2017-03-27 21:37   ` Terry Smith
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Terry Smith @ 2017-03-27 21:37 UTC (permalink / raw)


We had a PDP 8E and an 8I at Humber College back in the day. I used to 
play chess against Chekmo2 on it on paper tape.


On 2017-03-27 08:05 AM, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
> On 27 Mar 2017, at 01:31, Noel Chiappa <jnc at mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
>>
>> That style of subroutine call goes back a _long_ way. IIRC, Whirlwind used
>> that kind of linkage (alas, I've misplaced my copy of the Whirlwind
>> instruction manual, sigh - a real tresure).
> This is how subroutines worked on EDSAC.  It might go back further than this, but it can't go back much further..
>



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2017-03-27 21:37 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2017-03-27  0:31 [TUHS] Happy birthday, PDP-8! Noel Chiappa
2017-03-27  0:37 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-03-27 12:05 ` Tim Bradshaw
2017-03-27 13:35   ` Tony Finch
2017-03-27 21:37   ` Terry Smith
2017-03-27 13:45 ` [TUHS] Subroutine calling conventions - was " Toby Thain

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).