* [9fans] The 9grid. @ 2003-08-15 20:47 ron minnich 2003-08-15 21:00 ` matt ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2003-08-15 20:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans We don't have a Grid yet, but we do have a web page; what more do you need? see www.9grid.net. We're going to try to build this thing up starting pretty much now. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 20:47 [9fans] The 9grid ron minnich @ 2003-08-15 21:00 ` matt 2003-08-15 21:04 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-15 21:06 ` ron minnich 2003-08-15 21:11 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 2003-08-16 0:29 ` rob pike, esq. 2 siblings, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: matt @ 2003-08-15 21:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans ron minnich wrote: >We don't have a Grid yet, but we do have a web page; what more do you >need? > a $10,000 logo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:00 ` matt @ 2003-08-15 21:04 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-15 21:37 ` matt 2003-08-16 0:32 ` Wes Kussmaul 2003-08-15 21:06 ` ron minnich 1 sibling, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: boyd, rounin @ 2003-08-15 21:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > a $10,000 logo i heard the lucent 'wine stain' cost $1M ... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:04 ` boyd, rounin @ 2003-08-15 21:37 ` matt 2003-08-15 21:44 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-16 0:32 ` Wes Kussmaul 1 sibling, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: matt @ 2003-08-15 21:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans boyd, rounin wrote: >>a $10,000 logo >> >> > >i heard the lucent 'wine stain' cost $1M ... > perhaps it was drawn by Ali Al-Johani http://theregister.co.uk/content/5/32304.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:37 ` matt @ 2003-08-15 21:44 ` boyd, rounin 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: boyd, rounin @ 2003-08-15 21:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans the alstrom 'wine stain' is quite similar. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:04 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-15 21:37 ` matt @ 2003-08-16 0:32 ` Wes Kussmaul 1 sibling, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Wes Kussmaul @ 2003-08-16 0:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > > a $10,000 logo > > i heard the lucent 'wine stain' cost $1M ... Years ago NBC had to abandon a brand new logo that consisted of a stylized capital N. They had just paid $750,000 for it when it was discovered that Nebraska Public Television had adopted a virtually identical one months earlier. That one had been done by a staffer in his spare time. Wes Kussmaul ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:00 ` matt 2003-08-15 21:04 ` boyd, rounin @ 2003-08-15 21:06 ` ron minnich 2003-08-15 21:34 ` David Presotto 2003-08-15 21:49 ` Jack Johnson 1 sibling, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2003-08-15 21:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, matt wrote: > a $10,000 logo is that all? Let me check my wallet ... nope, we're going to have to go with our usual cheap crappy logos. Too bad! ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:06 ` ron minnich @ 2003-08-15 21:34 ` David Presotto 2003-08-15 21:52 ` ron minnich 2003-08-15 22:37 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2003-08-15 21:49 ` Jack Johnson 1 sibling, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: David Presotto @ 2003-08-15 21:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 48 bytes --] How about a picture of the Northeast power grid? [-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2540 bytes --] From: ron minnich <rminnich@lanl.gov> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The 9grid. Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 15:06:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0308151506100.6506-100000@maxroach.lanl.gov> On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, matt wrote: > a $10,000 logo is that all? Let me check my wallet ... nope, we're going to have to go with our usual cheap crappy logos. Too bad! ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:34 ` David Presotto @ 2003-08-15 21:52 ` ron minnich 2003-08-15 22:37 ` Skip Tavakkolian 1 sibling, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2003-08-15 21:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, David Presotto wrote: > How about a picture of the Northeast power grid? damn, it only needs one color! Good one! ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:34 ` David Presotto 2003-08-15 21:52 ` ron minnich @ 2003-08-15 22:37 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2003-08-16 17:17 ` andrey mirtchovski 1 sibling, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2003-08-15 22:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > How about a picture of the Northeast power grid? Good one; although probably more applicable to a .NET grid. NOAA before and after satellite pictures should be inspiring. How about this: remember those child games where you connect the dots to make a picture? the dots could be the outline of glenda. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 22:37 ` Skip Tavakkolian @ 2003-08-16 17:17 ` andrey mirtchovski 2003-08-16 18:24 ` Skip Tavakkolian 0 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2003-08-16 17:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > Good one; although probably more applicable to a .NET grid. > NOAA before and after satellite pictures should be inspiring. > now available: http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/nightlights/blackout081403-20hrsbefore-text.jpg http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/nightlights/blackout081503-7hrsafter-text.jpg ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-16 17:17 ` andrey mirtchovski @ 2003-08-16 18:24 ` Skip Tavakkolian 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2003-08-16 18:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >> Good one; although probably more applicable to a .NET grid. >> NOAA before and after satellite pictures should be inspiring. >> > > now available: > > http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/nightlights/blackout081403-20hrsbefore-text.jpg > http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/nightlights/blackout081503-7hrsafter-text.jpg After a little more thought, I was going to suggest the following for a logo, but I soon realized my mistake. http://www.thegrillstoreandmore.com/image/products/big-pics/20323.jpg ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:06 ` ron minnich 2003-08-15 21:34 ` David Presotto @ 2003-08-15 21:49 ` Jack Johnson 2003-08-15 21:56 ` ron minnich 1 sibling, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Jack Johnson @ 2003-08-15 21:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans ron minnich wrote: > On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, matt wrote: >>a $10,000 logo > is that all? Let me check my wallet ... nope, we're going to have to go > with our usual cheap crappy logos. Did you try a big, crappy hash over Glenda's image? Maybe Glenda cut up into a little jigsaw puzzle? (Not that I don't love Glenda, I'm just brainstorming crappy logos) Ooooh, better yet, replicate the logo from the movie 12 Monkeys: http://www.kinoweb.de/filme/TwelveMonkeys/icons/logo200.gif except with little Glendas and a big, fat 9. -Jack ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:49 ` Jack Johnson @ 2003-08-15 21:56 ` ron minnich 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2003-08-15 21:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, Jack Johnson wrote: > except with little Glendas and a big, fat 9. so far, this one and the northeast power grid are tied for first place. I almost did Glenda with the chainsaw, cutting up Globus, but decided we've already done enough gratuitous pissing off of people for a while. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 20:47 [9fans] The 9grid ron minnich 2003-08-15 21:00 ` matt @ 2003-08-15 21:11 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 2003-08-15 21:40 ` andrey mirtchovski 2003-08-15 21:52 ` ron minnich 2003-08-16 0:29 ` rob pike, esq. 2 siblings, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Chris Hollis-Locke @ 2003-08-15 21:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans What's your interpretation of "grid"? There appear to be many to choose from. It sounds like a computation grid. If so some immediate Qs come up: Do you have to compile your app for all possible CPU types? Are jobs submitted to a central dispatcher? If not, how do I find out the cpu resources available? What sort of load balancing exists? Does data get cached close to the computation nodes or do I as a lowly underpowered bandwidth challenged client have to distribute it to each of them? Chris. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:11 ` Chris Hollis-Locke @ 2003-08-15 21:40 ` andrey mirtchovski 2003-08-15 21:45 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-15 21:52 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 2003-08-15 21:52 ` ron minnich 1 sibling, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2003-08-15 21:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, Chris Hollis-Locke wrote: > What's your interpretation of "grid"? > There appear to be many to choose from. nobody can be told what 'the grid' is :) 9grid's main purpose will be to say 'ha! you see that? what you did with globus 5 years (and several tens of megabytes of code) ago could be done with Plan 9 in a couple of weeks and/or a few beers'. 9grid is the red pill for distributed computing. i'm kidding, of course :) the GRID definition that i like most is 'distributed computing across administration domains' -- i learned that during my involvement with WestGrid (www.westgrid.ca) -- and this is what 9grid may end up being. if we're lucky, it may end up as the posterchild for future grids and in a couple of years everybody and their aunt will be running Plan 9 on their nodes :) andrey ps: 'we' means 'plan 9 enthusiasts', so all of you reading this are included :) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:40 ` andrey mirtchovski @ 2003-08-15 21:45 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-18 8:56 ` Ralph Corderoy 2003-08-15 21:52 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 1 sibling, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: boyd, rounin @ 2003-08-15 21:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans this is turning into 'the matrix'. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:45 ` boyd, rounin @ 2003-08-18 8:56 ` Ralph Corderoy 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Ralph Corderoy @ 2003-08-18 8:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans crap ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:40 ` andrey mirtchovski 2003-08-15 21:45 ` boyd, rounin @ 2003-08-15 21:52 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 2003-08-15 22:15 ` ron minnich ` (2 more replies) 1 sibling, 3 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Chris Hollis-Locke @ 2003-08-15 21:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >the GRID definition that i like most is 'distributed computing across >administration domains' Ok, the various nodes of 9grid will come under different admin domains but isn't there a single overarching domain - that for authentication, and who is responsible for it? Also, I think you're wimping out by not using NAT and firewalls wherever possible! :) Chris. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:52 ` Chris Hollis-Locke @ 2003-08-15 22:15 ` ron minnich 2003-08-15 22:27 ` andrey mirtchovski 2003-08-16 16:24 ` Rob Ristroph 2 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2003-08-15 22:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, Chris Hollis-Locke wrote: > Ok, the various nodes of 9grid will come under different admin domains > but isn't there a single overarching domain - that for authentication, and > who is responsible for it? there should not be one. > Also, I think you're wimping out by not using NAT and firewalls wherever > possible! :) ?? ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:52 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 2003-08-15 22:15 ` ron minnich @ 2003-08-15 22:27 ` andrey mirtchovski 2003-08-15 22:34 ` ron minnich ` (3 more replies) 2003-08-16 16:24 ` Rob Ristroph 2 siblings, 4 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2003-08-15 22:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, Chris Hollis-Locke wrote: > Ok, the various nodes of 9grid will come under different admin domains > but isn't there a single overarching domain - that for authentication, and > who is responsible for it? > the way we see it now, there will be a single authentication server (resembling Globus' certificates, i.e. you trust the authentication server as you trust the certificate authority). by separate administrative domains i mean that the machines here at UofC will be administered by people at the UofC with regards to software, hardware and will still have our own authentication domain for our own stuff. there's no root and we will not give the hostowner password to anyone else :) at any rate, Plan 9 is able to accomodate much wider range of authentication mechanisms than globus, so don't be surprised if there isn't a centralised authentication domain at all. i'm sorry if it doesn't make much sense, but using paradigms from other types of grids just messes it up -- it's much easier to think of it in plan9 terms: there will be a few cpu servers across the world on which your jobs can run if you're a 9grid user. that's all :) as far as job submission, ron could be opposed to it, but running a 'centralized' cpu server, to which one's jobs go, is a good idea if you're limited to a cluster. probably in 9grid we'll have a script which mounts all available nodes' /proc and tells you which one is most idle, isn't that the Plan 9 way? process migration hasn't arrived in Plan 9 (yet) but when it does it probably wouldn't be too hard to accomodate (at least we know it'll be simple). caching and resource discovery are on the table, but i'm not sure i can talk about that right now... ('ls' sounds much simpler than 'LDAP' though, doesn't it? :) andrey ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 22:27 ` andrey mirtchovski @ 2003-08-15 22:34 ` ron minnich 2003-08-16 4:13 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-15 22:39 ` Chris Hollis-Locke ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2003-08-15 22:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans If you haven't figured it out by now, no, we don't know what the heck we're doing. But we know that getting from not knowing what the heck we're doing to having some idea what the heck we are doing is much easier on Plan 9. This thing is going to take shape over the next while, at which point we may sound less clueless. I'd like not to have a central anything, however. Quick, somebody, show me the central scheduler for plane seats, or the road in front of your house, or the water you just filled your glass with. Scheduling happens all around us, but it does not imply central control, or you would always hit a green light. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 22:34 ` ron minnich @ 2003-08-16 4:13 ` boyd, rounin 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: boyd, rounin @ 2003-08-16 4:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > If you haven't figured it out by now, no, we don't know what the heck > we're doing. sounds like a plan. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 22:27 ` andrey mirtchovski 2003-08-15 22:34 ` ron minnich @ 2003-08-15 22:39 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 2003-08-15 22:46 ` ron minnich 2003-08-16 8:07 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-16 13:49 ` boyd, rounin 3 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Chris Hollis-Locke @ 2003-08-15 22:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >('ls' sounds much simpler than 'LDAP' though, doesn't it? :) Indeed! We also use echo and cat in the VN Inferno grid offering that I've been working on. See http://www.vitanuova.com/grid the demos are set up using the inferno IE plugin at the mo, but all the stuff is accessible directly from Inferno, the plugin just makes it a bit more seamless for the sort of folks who only like to "click on something". Also the machine that's on the internet doesn't have a DNS entry (don't ask - just don't ask!) which causes a few problems. Chris. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 22:39 ` Chris Hollis-Locke @ 2003-08-15 22:46 ` ron minnich 2003-08-15 22:50 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 0 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2003-08-15 22:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, Chris Hollis-Locke wrote: > Indeed! We also use echo and cat in the VN Inferno grid offering that I've > been working on. seems like we ought to work together on some of this, as long as it doesn't hurt your business plan. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 22:46 ` ron minnich @ 2003-08-15 22:50 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Chris Hollis-Locke @ 2003-08-15 22:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans I would be delighted to discuss this stuff with others who are interested. Don't mistake me for an expert though. My eyes glaze over when I look at all the grid related guff^H^H^H^Hdocumentation. Maybe it's time to get some messages on that mailing list of yours. Cheers, Chris. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 22:27 ` andrey mirtchovski 2003-08-15 22:34 ` ron minnich 2003-08-15 22:39 ` Chris Hollis-Locke @ 2003-08-16 8:07 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-16 13:49 ` boyd, rounin 3 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: boyd, rounin @ 2003-08-16 8:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans I move to dissolve the corporation In a pool of margaritas ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 22:27 ` andrey mirtchovski ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2003-08-16 8:07 ` boyd, rounin @ 2003-08-16 13:49 ` boyd, rounin 3 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: boyd, rounin @ 2003-08-16 13:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > caching and resource discovery are on the table, but i'm not sure i can talk > about that right now... ('ls' sounds much simpler than 'LDAP' though, doesn't > it? :) distributed caching is nasty. SRC had a filesystem that tried to do that, but it looked like it would fall into some combinatoric nightmare. then there is the great story of the garbage collection one day on a full V-something filesystem -- hysterical ... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:52 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 2003-08-15 22:15 ` ron minnich 2003-08-15 22:27 ` andrey mirtchovski @ 2003-08-16 16:24 ` Rob Ristroph 2003-08-16 16:41 ` David Presotto 2 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Rob Ristroph @ 2003-08-16 16:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >>>>> "Chris" == Chris Hollis-Locke <chris@hollis-locke.com> writes: Chris> >> the GRID definition that i like most is 'distributed computing >> across administration domains' Chris> Chris> Ok, the various nodes of 9grid will come under different admin Chris> domains but isn't there a single overarching domain - that for Chris> authentication, and who is responsible for it? This is related to question I have. I have two computers with Plan 9 installed on them, on an IP only network that has no DNS. If I want to set up one as an authentication / cpu server, and the other as a disk server. ( A third Plan 9 computer, or drawterm on linux, will be used to acess them. ) Do I need to set up DNS just so I can specify the authdom variable in the appropriate scripts ? In other words, to run an authentication server do I need to have a DNS server running somewhere ? Or can I give authdom a list of IPs, or a subnet ? --Rob P.S. I am currently trying to solve my problem by running a DNS server on a linux machine, but that just turned into another problem, i.e., why doesn't it work. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-16 16:24 ` Rob Ristroph @ 2003-08-16 16:41 ` David Presotto 2003-08-16 21:14 ` Jim Choate ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: David Presotto @ 2003-08-16 16:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 834 bytes --] If the two machines have fixed addresses there's no reason to use dns at all. You should have a /lib/ndb/local that lists the network with the appropriate auth server and fs server. For example: ipnet=robsnet ip=199.199.9.0 ipgw=199.199.9.1 fs=199.199.9.2 auth=199.199.9.3 Or you can use symbolic names instead of the ip addresses: ipnet=robsnet ip=199.199.9.0 ipgw=199.199.9.1 fs=robsfs.rob.net auth=robsauth.rob.net ip=199.99.9.2 dom=robsfs.rob.net ip=199.99.9.3 dom=robsauth.rob.net and if you want them to boot off of a plan9 dhcp/bootp/tftp server ipnet=robsnet ip=199.199.9.0 ipgw=199.199.9.1 fs=robsfs.rob.net auth=robsauth.rob.net ip=199.99.9.2 dom=robsfs.rob.net ether=123456789012 bootf=/386/9pcfs ip=199.99.9.3 dom=robsauth.rob.net ether=123456789013 bootf=/386/9pccpu [-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 3224 bytes --] From: rgr@sdf.lonestar.org (Rob Ristroph) To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] The 9grid. Date: 16 Aug 2003 11:24:34 -0500 Message-ID: <87fzk1bmf1.fsf@rgristroph-austin.ath.cx> >>>>> "Chris" == Chris Hollis-Locke <chris@hollis-locke.com> writes: Chris> >> the GRID definition that i like most is 'distributed computing >> across administration domains' Chris> Chris> Ok, the various nodes of 9grid will come under different admin Chris> domains but isn't there a single overarching domain - that for Chris> authentication, and who is responsible for it? This is related to question I have. I have two computers with Plan 9 installed on them, on an IP only network that has no DNS. If I want to set up one as an authentication / cpu server, and the other as a disk server. ( A third Plan 9 computer, or drawterm on linux, will be used to acess them. ) Do I need to set up DNS just so I can specify the authdom variable in the appropriate scripts ? In other words, to run an authentication server do I need to have a DNS server running somewhere ? Or can I give authdom a list of IPs, or a subnet ? --Rob P.S. I am currently trying to solve my problem by running a DNS server on a linux machine, but that just turned into another problem, i.e., why doesn't it work. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-16 16:41 ` David Presotto @ 2003-08-16 21:14 ` Jim Choate 2003-08-16 21:39 ` [9fans] Node architecture? (Re: The 9grid) Jim Choate 2003-08-16 21:23 ` [9fans] Q: Drawterm Subscriptions? Jim Choate 2003-08-17 18:25 ` [9fans] The 9grid Rob Ristroph 2 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-08-16 21:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Sat, 16 Aug 2003, David Presotto wrote: > If the two machines have fixed addresses there's no reason to use > dns at all. > > You should have a /lib/ndb/local that lists the network with the > appropriate auth server and fs server. For example: > > ipnet=robsnet ip=199.199.9.0 > ipgw=199.199.9.1 > fs=199.199.9.2 > auth=199.199.9.3 > > Or you can use symbolic names instead of the ip addresses: > > ipnet=robsnet ip=199.199.9.0 > ipgw=199.199.9.1 > fs=robsfs.rob.net > auth=robsauth.rob.net > > ip=199.99.9.2 dom=robsfs.rob.net > ip=199.99.9.3 dom=robsauth.rob.net > > and if you want them to boot off of a plan9 dhcp/bootp/tftp server > > ipnet=robsnet ip=199.199.9.0 > ipgw=199.199.9.1 > fs=robsfs.rob.net > auth=robsauth.rob.net > > ip=199.99.9.2 dom=robsfs.rob.net > ether=123456789012 > bootf=/386/9pcfs > ip=199.99.9.3 dom=robsauth.rob.net > ether=123456789013 > bootf=/386/9pccpu Cool, care to discuss a more complicated graph? Rob's question is actually a sub-problem of the more global problem. Bootstrapping Austin into a workable entity. Consider: Site A open-forge.org Fractional T1 DNS (16 IP's) mail auth cpu file Site B ssz.com ISDN to Site A DNS (share IPs' w/ open-forge) mail auth cpu file Site C (no domain) DHCP auth cpu file Problem: We want each site to have a sinlge machine handle the authorization for that domain. It should also handle access by members of the 'h18' domain (which is virtual in the sense that it's not tied to any IP or domain). open-forge and ssz each run their own DNS (or share a single one, usually at open-forge). Site C however is dhcp with no permanent IP's. This is a problem for auth services I suspect, they need some sort of IP/name connection. Which is the reason that I suggested to Rob that he shold create a DNS domain of .rob and configure his machines. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* [9fans] Node architecture? (Re: The 9grid) 2003-08-16 21:14 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-08-16 21:39 ` Jim Choate 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-08-16 21:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans; +Cc: hangar18-general, hell Hi, The model that we're using at H18 for a "suggested node" is: laptop (Multiple OS, dedicated IP & DHCP, all apps work under DHCP, Ethernet, USB, Firewire, Wireless, etc.) network connections | firewall (Linux: DNS, mail, irc), no ip_forward) | +-------network sniffer/packet analyzer (Any OS/App) | +-------auth, cpu (Plan 9, not good choice for I/O) | +-------wireless AP (hub, DHCP srvr, firewall, nat) | +-------I/O, cpu (Plan 9, workstation) | +-------file (Plan 9) -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* [9fans] Q: Drawterm Subscriptions? 2003-08-16 16:41 ` David Presotto 2003-08-16 21:14 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-08-16 21:23 ` Jim Choate 2003-08-16 21:27 ` Andrew 2003-08-17 18:25 ` [9fans] The 9grid Rob Ristroph 2 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-08-16 21:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans; +Cc: hangar18-general, hell Hi, I'm wondering what the level of interest would be for drawterm accounts for sale to the general public. Open Forge is thinking of offering such a service if there were some interest. It would be -something- like $10/month or $100/yr. If so, please contact me directly. Thanks. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: Drawterm Subscriptions? 2003-08-16 21:23 ` [9fans] Q: Drawterm Subscriptions? Jim Choate @ 2003-08-16 21:27 ` Andrew 2003-08-16 21:40 ` Jim Choate ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Andrew @ 2003-08-16 21:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans or i could give you one for free... On Sat, Aug 16, 2003 at 04:23:16PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm wondering what the level of interest would be for drawterm accounts > for sale to the general public. Open Forge is thinking of offering such > a service if there were some interest. It would be -something- like > $10/month or $100/yr. > > If so, please contact me directly. > > Thanks. > > > -- > ____________________________________________________________________ > > We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I > are going to spend the rest of our lives. > > Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" > > ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org > www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: Drawterm Subscriptions? 2003-08-16 21:27 ` Andrew @ 2003-08-16 21:40 ` Jim Choate 2003-08-16 21:43 ` Andrew 2003-08-16 22:58 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-17 7:08 ` Joseph Holsten 2 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-08-16 21:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Sat, 16 Aug 2003, Andrew wrote: > > or i could give you one for free... Cool, what URL should I put on the H18 webpage? -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: Drawterm Subscriptions? 2003-08-16 21:40 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-08-16 21:43 ` Andrew 2003-08-17 12:22 ` Jim Choate 0 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Andrew @ 2003-08-16 21:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Sat, Aug 16, 2003 at 04:40:24PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > On Sat, 16 Aug 2003, Andrew wrote: > > > > > or i could give you one for free... > > Cool, what URL should I put on the H18 webpage? just put my email up there for now, i dont have time to design a webpage atm ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: Drawterm Subscriptions? 2003-08-16 21:43 ` Andrew @ 2003-08-17 12:22 ` Jim Choate 2003-08-17 14:59 ` Andrew 0 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-08-17 12:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans; +Cc: hangar18-general, hell Hi Andrew, On Sat, 16 Aug 2003, Andrew wrote: > On Sat, Aug 16, 2003 at 04:40:24PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > > > On Sat, 16 Aug 2003, Andrew wrote: > > > > > > > > or i could give you one for free... > > > > Cool, what URL should I put on the H18 webpage? > > just put my email up there for now, i dont have time to design a webpage > atm That's cool and I appreciate the effort, but it's a little more complicated than just slapping your email address on a web page. I assume that this means you will be an active node in H18? If so then I'll need a URL and we'll need to work out the authorization issues with regard to auth servers. That pretty much requires some sort of webpage on your end. And I've got to ask, if you don't have time to slap a simple web page together, where are you going to get the time to actually do the work required to manage a bunch of drawterm accounts? That definitely won't be configure and forget. If you're serious about this then you'll need to provide the following for H18: - a URL that details the conditions of a drawterm accounts (ie AUP). There also needs to be some maximum time limit on your responses (not just when you get around to it). - what's the size of your pipe and how many connections can you handle at one time? - a valid email address that will be read at least once a day, every day. - we'll need personal contact info so that H18 or Open Forge can contact you directly. - you'll need to join the node policy mailing list for H18. - we've got to work out tha authdom issues that we're currently working on. Those who helps will be listed as a contributor. Just a suggestion, but you may want to discuss the particulars directly with me rather than over the list. But, either is acceptable to me. Thanks again for piping up on this. I appreciate the effort. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: Drawterm Subscriptions? 2003-08-17 12:22 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-08-17 14:59 ` Andrew 2003-08-17 17:02 ` Jim Choate 0 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Andrew @ 2003-08-17 14:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans okay, just to make things clear: I dont want a H18 account, nor will i bend over and get one so that i can advertising my plan9 cluster on your beloved site. Or "be an active node on H18." If its beyond you to place a simple item somewhere on your site saying "so and so has a small plan9 cluster of his own and is willing to give you a free drawterm account within the limits of his internet connection, please email him at nospam@foo.com for info." Answer to your question: Setting up 'drawterm accounts' isnt very difficult. It requires adding a user at the file server and adding a user at the auth server, then sending off the standard email explaining what is where. My plan9 system has been pretty low mainanence at this point anyways. Its been up and running for 52 days now, and considering the last power outage was 52 days ago... "definitly not configure and forget" My interest in plan9 is on an operating systems level, I like learning how it works, not providing a 'service' for people aside from allowing them to fulfill a similiar desire. It is extremely cheap for me to add accounts, so in my opinion, why not share the wealth. I am not a web designer, I am a student/programmer. Web design is probably the furthest thing from my interests that still involves computers. Furthermore, as I have stated I do not have time or sufficient motivation at this time to make a website so people can put in what they want their account to be called, so it can email me and tell me when instead they could just email me. Perhaps when accounts start flowing in by the hundreds I will add a website, except at that point Im out of bandwidth anyways. Thanks Andrew ps anyone who wants an account: email me off list. (see, slapping my email on a website, very complicated) On Sun, Aug 17, 2003 at 07:22:04AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > Hi Andrew, > > > On Sat, 16 Aug 2003, Andrew wrote: > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2003 at 04:40:24PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 16 Aug 2003, Andrew wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > or i could give you one for free... > > > > > > Cool, what URL should I put on the H18 webpage? > > > > just put my email up there for now, i dont have time to design a webpage > > atm > > That's cool and I appreciate the effort, but it's a little more > complicated than just slapping your email address on a web page. > > I assume that this means you will be an active node in H18? If so then > I'll need a URL and we'll need to work out the authorization issues with > regard to auth servers. That pretty much requires some sort of webpage on > your end. > > And I've got to ask, if you don't have time to slap a simple web page > together, where are you going to get the time to actually do the work > required to manage a bunch of drawterm accounts? That definitely won't be > configure and forget. > > If you're serious about this then you'll need to provide the following > for H18: > > - a URL that details the conditions of a drawterm accounts (ie AUP). There > also needs to be some maximum time limit on your responses (not just > when you get around to it). > > - what's the size of your pipe and how many connections can you handle at > one time? > > - a valid email address that will be read at least once a day, every day. > > - we'll need personal contact info so that H18 or Open Forge can contact > you directly. > > - you'll need to join the node policy mailing list for H18. > > - we've got to work out tha authdom issues that we're currently working > on. Those who helps will be listed as a contributor. > > Just a suggestion, but you may want to discuss the particulars directly > with me rather than over the list. But, either is acceptable to me. > > Thanks again for piping up on this. I appreciate the effort. > > > -- > ____________________________________________________________________ > > We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I > are going to spend the rest of our lives. > > Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" > > ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org > www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: Drawterm Subscriptions? 2003-08-17 14:59 ` Andrew @ 2003-08-17 17:02 ` Jim Choate 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-08-17 17:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Andrew; +Cc: 9fans, hangar18-general Ok, thanks. I'll use this email the base. On Sun, 17 Aug 2003, Andrew wrote: > If its beyond you to place a simple item somewhere on > your site saying "so and so has a small plan9 cluster of his own and > is willing to give you a free drawterm account within the limits of his > internet connection, please email him at nospam@foo.com for info." Not at all. Making sure it's correct another thing entirely. I'd also like to be assured that when you drop the service at some point we find out about it in a timely manner. afrayedknot@thefrayedknot.armory.com it is. > I am not a web designer, I am a student/programmer. Web design is > probably the furthest thing from my interests that still involves > computers. I'm talking about something that can be put together in about 15 minutes. The reality is "He said..." isn't very convincing and without you at least putting up your own page to that effect... It's also usefull so that if you decide you're going to stop you can post something ahead of time. A basic blurb just seems considerate. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: Drawterm Subscriptions? 2003-08-16 21:27 ` Andrew 2003-08-16 21:40 ` Jim Choate @ 2003-08-16 22:58 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-17 3:04 ` matt 2003-08-17 7:08 ` Joseph Holsten 2 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: boyd, rounin @ 2003-08-16 22:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > On Sat, Aug 16, 2003 at 04:23:16PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I'm wondering what the level of interest would be for drawterm accounts > > for sale to the general public. Open Forge is thinking of offering such > > a service if there were some interest. It would be -something- like > > $10/month or $100/yr. drawterm accounts should be free. charging? what!?! hanger 18 should go do that -- hang themselves. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: Drawterm Subscriptions? 2003-08-16 22:58 ` boyd, rounin @ 2003-08-17 3:04 ` matt 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: matt @ 2003-08-17 3:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > > >>>. It would be -something- like >>>$10/month or $100/yr. >>> >>> > >drawterm accounts should be free. charging? what!?! > >hanger 18 should go do that -- hang themselves. > Beware geeks bearing gifts jk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: Drawterm Subscriptions? 2003-08-16 21:27 ` Andrew 2003-08-16 21:40 ` Jim Choate 2003-08-16 22:58 ` boyd, rounin @ 2003-08-17 7:08 ` Joseph Holsten 2003-08-17 8:52 ` Bruce Ellis 2 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Joseph Holsten @ 2003-08-17 7:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans I actually would be interested in a drawterm subscription. Although I would prefer the free one, i think you all should respect the concept of charging for a service. <rant> I love the "flame choate" crusade as much as anyone (hangar 18 excluded), this is one situation which isn't appropriate for that sort of thing. You wouldn't your isp for charging for access, now would you? However, his list isn't spamfans. In the same way that i expect to receive no penis/bust enlargement advertisements, nor do i wish to change my long distance provider, I don't expect to receive drawterm adverts. As this list exists for the improvement and support of plan9, only free offers should be presented here. If freedom (in both senses) of information wasn't important to us, we probably wouldn't be using plan9. </rant> Any responses to this email should be sent to gaph@swbell.net or a bit bucket. ----------- Nosce Te Ipsum ----------- Joseph A. P. Holsten gaph@swbell.net White Rabbit Computing 918.814.7879 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: Drawterm Subscriptions? 2003-08-17 7:08 ` Joseph Holsten @ 2003-08-17 8:52 ` Bruce Ellis 2003-08-17 12:31 ` Jim Choate 0 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Bruce Ellis @ 2003-08-17 8:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans well if you pay for such a service you expect some level of service. what are the terms? maybe you can get a freebie if you help them setup the DNS? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Holsten" <gaph@swbell.net> To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [9fans] Q: Drawterm Subscriptions? > I actually would be interested in a drawterm subscription. Although I > would prefer the free one, i think you all should respect the concept > of charging for a service. > <rant> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Q: Drawterm Subscriptions? 2003-08-17 8:52 ` Bruce Ellis @ 2003-08-17 12:31 ` Jim Choate 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: Jim Choate @ 2003-08-17 12:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Sun, 17 Aug 2003, Bruce Ellis wrote: > well if you pay for such a service you expect some level of service. > what are the terms? That will depend on a lot of things. What do you think are fair terms? > maybe you can get a freebie if you help them > setup the DNS? Don't need help setting up DNS. What we could use some help with is the authdom issues. Outside of that I think we're well in hand. The only thing we can offer in return is credit in the How To. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ravage@ssz.com jchoate@open-forge.org www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-16 16:41 ` David Presotto 2003-08-16 21:14 ` Jim Choate 2003-08-16 21:23 ` [9fans] Q: Drawterm Subscriptions? Jim Choate @ 2003-08-17 18:25 ` Rob Ristroph 2003-08-17 18:26 ` boyd, rounin 2 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Rob Ristroph @ 2003-08-17 18:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >>>>> "David" == David Presotto <presotto@closedmind.org> writes: David> David> If the two machines have fixed addresses there's no reason to David> use dns at all. David> David> You should have a /lib/ndb/local that lists the network with David> the appropriate auth server and fs server. For example: David> David> ipnet=robsnet ip=199.199.9.0 David> ipgw=199.199.9.1 David> fs=199.199.9.2 David> auth=199.199.9.3 Here is what my /lib/ndb/local loks like right now: # # files comprising the database, use ad many as you like, see ndb(6) # database= file=/lib/ndb/local file=/lib/ndb/common ipnet=robsnet ip=192.168.0.0 ipgw=192.168.1.1 fs=192.168.1.17 auth=192.168.1.18 #auth=sources.cs.bell-labs.com authdom=outside.plan9.bell-labs.com authdom=robsnet I think the last line is not needed. When I then reboot the machine from the pcauth kernel, and then on a linux machine run this command: ./drawterm-linux -c 192.168.1.18 -a 192.168.1.18 I get the drawterm prompt in the drawterm window: user[none]: rgr password: but after I type my password, I get this message at the linux command line, and the drawterm seems to freeze up: ./drawterm-linux: cannot authenticate with p9 abort 4035 On the Plan 9 computer, the last few lines of /sys/log/auth look like this: 192.168.1.18 Aug 17 09:13:18 keyfs starting warning: 3f3f7f6e 3f3e2b9a 192.168.1.18 Aug 17 09:13:18 tr-ok rgr@rgr(192.168.1.1) -> rgr@rgr 192.168.1.18 Aug 17 09:13:18 tr-ok rgr@rgr(192.168.1.1) -> rgr@bootes Any suggestions as to what I should check next ? --Rob ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-17 18:25 ` [9fans] The 9grid Rob Ristroph @ 2003-08-17 18:26 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-17 18:34 ` andrey mirtchovski 0 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: boyd, rounin @ 2003-08-17 18:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > authdom=robsnet methinks you need a real domain name 'resolvable' with the dns. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-17 18:26 ` boyd, rounin @ 2003-08-17 18:34 ` andrey mirtchovski 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2003-08-17 18:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Sun, 17 Aug 2003, boyd, rounin wrote: > > authdom=robsnet > > methinks you need a real domain name 'resolvable' with the dns. > no, not really. it's just supplemental to the whole authentication process. for example the standard /lib/ndb/local in the distribution contains an entry for the update server: auth=sources.cs... authdom=outside.plan9.bell-labs.com the authdom in this case is unresolvable too (yet replica/pull works for everyone). we're using different authdoms to have a set of different auth servers for local and for 9grid accounts, though this isn't perfected yet. andrey ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:11 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 2003-08-15 21:40 ` andrey mirtchovski @ 2003-08-15 21:52 ` ron minnich 2003-08-15 22:08 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 1 sibling, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2003-08-15 21:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, Chris Hollis-Locke wrote: > What's your interpretation of "grid"? > There appear to be many to choose from. What we called 'distributed computing' in the 70s. Nothing important has changed: - Unix is still lousy for this type of thing - people still try to add on things to make it better - those things don't work - this cycle repeats about every 5 years so you have to rename the ideas every 5 years > Do you have to compile your app for all possible CPU types? only if you want to use all possible cpu types > Are jobs submitted to a central dispatcher? No, I hate those. It seems a central anything is counter to the idea of Plan 9 anyway. > If not, how do I find out the cpu resources available? beats me > What sort of load balancing exists? none > Does data get cached close to the computation nodes or do I as a > lowly underpowered bandwidth challenged client have to distribute > it to each of them? well, I'll let Andrey take that one. ron p.s. there is a 9grid mailling list, so if people get sick of this discussion on 9fans, just tell us and we'll take it outside. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 21:52 ` ron minnich @ 2003-08-15 22:08 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 2003-08-15 22:17 ` ron minnich 0 siblings, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: Chris Hollis-Locke @ 2003-08-15 22:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >ron >p.s. there is a 9grid mailling list, so if people get sick of this >discussion on 9fans, just tell us and we'll take it outside. Where's the list? Couldn't spot it on the web site, mind you I didn't look very hard. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 22:08 ` Chris Hollis-Locke @ 2003-08-15 22:17 ` ron minnich 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2003-08-15 22:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, Chris Hollis-Locke wrote: > Where's the list? Couldn't spot it on the web site, mind you I didn't > look very hard. http://www.9grid.net/contact/index.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-15 20:47 [9fans] The 9grid ron minnich 2003-08-15 21:00 ` matt 2003-08-15 21:11 ` Chris Hollis-Locke @ 2003-08-16 0:29 ` rob pike, esq. 2003-08-16 0:40 ` andrey mirtchovski 2003-08-16 15:25 ` ron minnich 2 siblings, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: rob pike, esq. @ 2003-08-16 0:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans strange use of 'sui generis' ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-16 0:29 ` rob pike, esq. @ 2003-08-16 0:40 ` andrey mirtchovski 2003-08-16 0:47 ` nehal 2003-08-16 15:27 ` ron minnich 2003-08-16 15:25 ` ron minnich 1 sibling, 2 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2003-08-16 0:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, rob pike, esq. wrote: > strange use of 'sui generis' > 'one of its kind', in the sense that nobody else is doing it right ;) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-16 0:40 ` andrey mirtchovski @ 2003-08-16 0:47 ` nehal 2003-08-16 15:27 ` ron minnich 2003-08-16 15:27 ` ron minnich 1 sibling, 1 reply; 56+ messages in thread From: nehal @ 2003-08-16 0:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans oh oh ron's been reading again (i thought i saw your car at the library).. nothing good can come from that... nehal > > On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, rob pike, esq. wrote: > > > strange use of 'sui generis' > > > > 'one of its kind', in the sense that nobody else is doing it right ;) > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-16 0:47 ` nehal @ 2003-08-16 15:27 ` ron minnich 0 siblings, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2003-08-16 15:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 nehal@ccs.lanl.gov wrote: > oh oh ron's been reading again (i thought > i saw your car at the library).. nothing > good can come from that... no it's my daughter's latin classes. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-16 0:40 ` andrey mirtchovski 2003-08-16 0:47 ` nehal @ 2003-08-16 15:27 ` ron minnich 1 sibling, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2003-08-16 15:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, rob pike, esq. wrote: > > > strange use of 'sui generis' > > > > 'one of its kind', in the sense that nobody else is doing it right ;) well, I thought that was what I meant, but I figured rob had uncovered my techie illiteracy, so it's gone. Andrey can always put it back. ron :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] The 9grid. 2003-08-16 0:29 ` rob pike, esq. 2003-08-16 0:40 ` andrey mirtchovski @ 2003-08-16 15:25 ` ron minnich 1 sibling, 0 replies; 56+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2003-08-16 15:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, rob pike, esq. wrote: > strange use of 'sui generis' damn, I need to fix that. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 56+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2003-08-18 8:56 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 56+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2003-08-15 20:47 [9fans] The 9grid ron minnich 2003-08-15 21:00 ` matt 2003-08-15 21:04 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-15 21:37 ` matt 2003-08-15 21:44 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-16 0:32 ` Wes Kussmaul 2003-08-15 21:06 ` ron minnich 2003-08-15 21:34 ` David Presotto 2003-08-15 21:52 ` ron minnich 2003-08-15 22:37 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2003-08-16 17:17 ` andrey mirtchovski 2003-08-16 18:24 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2003-08-15 21:49 ` Jack Johnson 2003-08-15 21:56 ` ron minnich 2003-08-15 21:11 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 2003-08-15 21:40 ` andrey mirtchovski 2003-08-15 21:45 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-18 8:56 ` Ralph Corderoy 2003-08-15 21:52 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 2003-08-15 22:15 ` ron minnich 2003-08-15 22:27 ` andrey mirtchovski 2003-08-15 22:34 ` ron minnich 2003-08-16 4:13 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-15 22:39 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 2003-08-15 22:46 ` ron minnich 2003-08-15 22:50 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 2003-08-16 8:07 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-16 13:49 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-16 16:24 ` Rob Ristroph 2003-08-16 16:41 ` David Presotto 2003-08-16 21:14 ` Jim Choate 2003-08-16 21:39 ` [9fans] Node architecture? (Re: The 9grid) Jim Choate 2003-08-16 21:23 ` [9fans] Q: Drawterm Subscriptions? Jim Choate 2003-08-16 21:27 ` Andrew 2003-08-16 21:40 ` Jim Choate 2003-08-16 21:43 ` Andrew 2003-08-17 12:22 ` Jim Choate 2003-08-17 14:59 ` Andrew 2003-08-17 17:02 ` Jim Choate 2003-08-16 22:58 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-17 3:04 ` matt 2003-08-17 7:08 ` Joseph Holsten 2003-08-17 8:52 ` Bruce Ellis 2003-08-17 12:31 ` Jim Choate 2003-08-17 18:25 ` [9fans] The 9grid Rob Ristroph 2003-08-17 18:26 ` boyd, rounin 2003-08-17 18:34 ` andrey mirtchovski 2003-08-15 21:52 ` ron minnich 2003-08-15 22:08 ` Chris Hollis-Locke 2003-08-15 22:17 ` ron minnich 2003-08-16 0:29 ` rob pike, esq. 2003-08-16 0:40 ` andrey mirtchovski 2003-08-16 0:47 ` nehal 2003-08-16 15:27 ` ron minnich 2003-08-16 15:27 ` ron minnich 2003-08-16 15:25 ` ron minnich
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