Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[Richard Miller]

No offence at all - clarification was offered because I don't want to be
credited with more than I've actually done.  9pi was a conservative (changing
as little as possible) port.  The usbdwc driver was born out of necessity,
and probably a deadend because most usb host hardware follows one of the
standard (uhci, ohci, ehci) patterns.

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[cherry]

On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 1:24 AM,  <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote:
>> This kernel has an in-kernel bzfs including binaries like sam, acme
>> and the compiler (so it is a little big in size).
>
> This is valiant (not dissimilar in intent from miller's 9pi) and
> useful, but in my opinion you'll get a lot more support from people
> who like me are willing to build the system from scratch.
Of course. Thank you :)

>
> There are three issues that strike me here: 1.  if I understand the
> 9front-loader, you have built something that resembles it;
I am not sure, probably not. Not familiar with 9front's loader. In my
case, the kernel image is ELF which the bootloader recognizes. The
boot process all come from /sys/src/9/boot from the Labs.

> 2.  if you
> did, it would be nice to converge your version and theirs (I remember
> you did a lot of work building the bzroot that 9front (and 9pi) may
> want to adopt
Yes, I did build the bzroot. My intention was to boot the machine even
before the ethernet or disk driver was done. It turned out to be very
helpful for me to write the driver and fix issues at that early stage.
Now it used as a "live" image for people to start with, before
building everything. Maybe turn it into a installation image in the
future.

It basically resembles the Labs' pc live/installation image, 9pcflop.
I just don't need to do the tricks for putting everything into a
floppy.

> 3.  more specifically, your understanding of how a
> boot image is build could benefit the way 9pi is constructed as well.
>
> The above is from discussions we have had and not yet validated by
> careful investigation of the actual release sources.  In any case, I
> believe that all plan 9 distributions have an opportunity with 9pi and
> 9ln to consider a commonly maintained installation process.  Maybe all
> it takes is more documentation, but more likely just a little more
> effort.
Yes, any advice is welcomed.

Thanks,
- cherry

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[cherry]

On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 1:28 AM,  <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote:
>> Not yet. I am trying to get the hard drive up on the Yeeloong. Haven't
>> looked at wifi. And USB will be the hard part for me... Hopefully it
>> will be all supported.
>
> I need to ask: VGA?  I'll come back to that when you respond.
The laptop screen works well. Did you mean the VGA port connecting an
external monitor? It also works for me. The resolution remains at
1024x600, so it only occupies the upper part of a 4:3 monitor. Linux
that comes with the machine does a similar thing. I haven't done
anything for adjusting the resolution (don't know whether it is
possible even). What problem did you have with the display?

>
> USB you should probably adopt from 9pi rather than the Bell Labs
> distribution (there seems no avoiding the need to have 9pi, 9atom and
> 9front at one's fingertips, which is another important issue right
> now).  Miller has done a lot of good work in that direction (and
> Bluetooth, too).
Thanks. Even the usb seem to be different, I did learn a lot from 9pi kernel.

>
> ATA ought to be a walk in the park, but Erik Quanstrom would be the
> authority (outside of Bell Labs) on that.
The hard drive seem to work, by just enabling sd in the configuration
file (uncommenting sd in dev, and sdata in misc) and using generic ide
driver of 2E. With ext2srv I can read/write linux partition. I didn't
do much test though, nor looked into any detail. The disk seem to vary
even the machines are all 8089A. Mine is a 2GB SSD, I guess yours not,
so I am not sure it will apply on your machine. Experiments are
welcomed (be sure to back up ahead).

- cherry

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[lucio]

> Some confusion I think - 9pi image is Bell Labs distribution built with kernel
> /sys/src/9/bcm and arm binaries, not from any separate source tree.
>
I do tend to shoot from the hip, I sincerely hope there were no
unintended casualties as a result :-)

That said, the build process for the installation image has baffled me
for years, mostly because I never felt that making proper sense of it
would be a rewarding task.  When Cherry succeeded (not for the first
time) where I had only skimmed the surface, I felt he was onto a good
thing.  And I could not help thinking that he and you were on a
parallel path and it made sense to find the common ground.  My hope is
that at the end of that path there will be a version of the process
that is better documented and can be used more widely.

Unless I misunderstand a lot (more), this is a desirable objective, if
not a trivial one to attain.  I don't think there is much harm me
raising the issue, nor in being corrected if I am mistaken.

> USB kernel driver for the pi was written specially for the usbdwc host
> adapter in the bcm2835 SoC, not relevant anywhere else unless some other
> vendor adopts the same usb core (which I fervently hope never happens).

I'll defend my position by stating that sometimes differences teach us
more then similarities.  A weak defence, I know.  But your work with
USB has moved Plan 9 forward a lot and I think it ought to be studied
and respected.

Thanks for all the clarifications, I sincerely hope you did not find
cause to be offended in what I wrote, it was definitely not intended
to offend anyone.

Lucio.

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[Richard Miller]

Lucio said:

> USB you should probably adopt from 9pi rather than the Bell Labs
> distribution

Some confusion I think - 9pi image is Bell Labs distribution built with kernel
/sys/src/9/bcm and arm binaries, not from any separate source tree.

USB kernel driver for the pi was written specially for the usbdwc host
adapter in the bcm2835 SoC, not relevant anywhere else unless some other
vendor adopts the same usb core (which I fervently hope never happens).

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[lucio]

> Not yet. I am trying to get the hard drive up on the Yeeloong. Haven't
> looked at wifi. And USB will be the hard part for me... Hopefully it
> will be all supported.

I need to ask: VGA?  I'll come back to that when you respond.

USB you should probably adopt from 9pi rather than the Bell Labs
distribution (there seems no avoiding the need to have 9pi, 9atom and
9front at one's fingertips, which is another important issue right
now).  Miller has done a lot of good work in that direction (and
Bluetooth, too).

ATA ought to be a walk in the park, but Erik Quanstrom would be the
authority (outside of Bell Labs) on that.

Lucio.

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[lucio]

> This kernel has an in-kernel bzfs including binaries like sam, acme
> and the compiler (so it is a little big in size).

This is valiant (not dissimilar in intent from miller's 9pi) and
useful, but in my opinion you'll get a lot more support from people
who like me are willing to build the system from scratch.

There are three issues that strike me here: 1.  if I understand the
9front-loader, you have built something that resembles it; 2.  if you
did, it would be nice to converge your version and theirs (I remember
you did a lot of work building the bzroot that 9front (and 9pi) may
want to adopt and 3.  more specifically, your understanding of how a
boot image is build could benefit the way 9pi is constructed as well.

The above is from discussions we have had and not yet validated by
careful investigation of the actual release sources.  In any case, I
believe that all plan 9 distributions have an opportunity with 9pi and
9ln to consider a commonly maintained installation process.  Maybe all
it takes is more documentation, but more likely just a little more
effort.

Lucio.

PS: Once again: you did good and I'd like to congratulate you.  I set
out to do this many years ago and you beat me by miles!

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[Shane Morris]

Thank you, that would be most suitable for the time being.

Now to find on to purchase.

Sent from my iPad

> On 17 Aug 2014, at 6:58 am, cherry <lunaria21@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 6:13 AM, Shane Morris <edgecomberts@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Just a quick one - I assume all devices on the Yeeloong (ie, wifi) are
>> functional?
> Not yet. I am trying to get the hard drive up on the Yeeloong. Haven't
> looked at wifi. And USB will be the hard part for me... Hopefully it
> will be all supported.
> 
>> If so, this would make a nice little terminal...
> Now it can be a terminal with (cabled) ethernet.
> 
> - cherry
> 

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[cherry]

On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 6:13 AM, Shane Morris <edgecomberts@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just a quick one - I assume all devices on the Yeeloong (ie, wifi) are
> functional?
Not yet. I am trying to get the hard drive up on the Yeeloong. Haven't
looked at wifi. And USB will be the hard part for me... Hopefully it
will be all supported.

> If so, this would make a nice little terminal...
Now it can be a terminal with (cabled) ethernet.

- cherry

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[cherry]

On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 12:03 PM,  <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote:
>> I just got a Loongson 2F machine (Yeeloong 8089A laptop) (MIPS LE), so
>> I extended my previous Loongson 2E port (32 bit) to run on it.
>
> Got it running, it's simply MAGIC!
I am very happy to hear this. Thanks very much for your encouragement.

I also uploaded a kernel image to the download page of the bitbucket repo.
https://bitbucket.org/cherry9/plan9-loongson/downloads/9ln2flive
This kernel has an in-kernel bzfs including binaries like sam, acme
and the compiler (so it is a little big in size). So it can boot by
itself, but also possible to connect a file server. Now you don't need
it. Anyone who is interested could try this for start.

- cherry

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[cherry]

On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 2:30 PM, David du Colombier <0intro@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Indeed I have a question about unifying the 2E and 2F kernels.
>> Currently 2F is separated so that it is convenient for me to
>> experiment new code for 2F hardwares without worrying breaking 2E.
>> Eventually it might be better to unify them. I think it is possible to
>> share the C code, with specific hardware enabled/disabled in
>> configuration file. Mainly the differences are some #define'd or enum
>> constants in mem.h and io.h, including IRQ and some addresses. What
>> would be the best way to do it?
>
> Maybe you could define them as variables in the port section
> of the configuration files. I think this is particularly
> relevant for things like screen resolution.
>
> For example:
>
> port
>         int width = 1024;
>         int height = 600;

Thanks for all suggestions. I have unified clock.c and screen.c for
both machines in this way.

>
> You could also define something like ln2e and ln2f variables
> and make some code depending on these conditions. The best
> would be to detect the cpu revision automatically. Is it
> possible in your case?

Yes, it is possible. The cpu revision are different on the two. I may
try this once I get more hardwares working.

>
> Perhaps others have better ideas.
>
>> Would it be possible to upstream this port to distribution? Minux
>> strongly encouraged me to do so.
>
> You may want to contact Jim McKie and explain your work and
> motivations to get it merged into the Plan 9 distribution.
>
Thank you for the information.

> --
> David du Colombier
>

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[lucio]

> I just got a Loongson 2F machine (Yeeloong 8089A laptop) (MIPS LE), so
> I extended my previous Loongson 2E port (32 bit) to run on it.

Got it running, it's simply MAGIC!

I wish I could thank you suitably.

Lucio.

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[Shane Morris]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1411 bytes --]

Just a quick one - I assume all devices on the Yeeloong (ie, wifi) are
functional? If so, this would make a nice little terminal...


On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 4:54 PM, <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote:

> > Would it be possible to upstream this port to distribution? Minux
> > strongly encouraged me to do so.
>
> David's advice is very sensible, I'm sure Bell Labs will be interested
> in your work.
>
> That said, it is quite a mouthful, so it may need a bit of digesting.
> Here, I think Erik QUantrom (9atom) and the 9front people may be less
> reluctant to host your efforts in their distributions.
>
> Myself, I don't have a clean enough Plan 9 distribution of any nature
> that will compile your release out of the box, probably through no
> fault of your own.  I also have some unorthodox ideas of how I would
> go about merging the distributions, but anyone in their right mind
> would wait for me to deliver before contemplating the options.
>
> I'll need your help and knowledge to get everything to work on my
> Yeeloong laptop, but at this point I'm still trying to find a stable
> foundation from which to start.  As soon as I have made some progress,
> I'll be in touch.
>
> In the meantime, it may be useful to find out who, besides the two of
> us, owns a Yeeloong or any other Lemote kit to experiment with.  Oh,
> Stallman doesn't really count.
>
> Lucio.
>
>
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1824 bytes --]

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[lucio]

> Would it be possible to upstream this port to distribution? Minux
> strongly encouraged me to do so.

David's advice is very sensible, I'm sure Bell Labs will be interested
in your work.

That said, it is quite a mouthful, so it may need a bit of digesting.
Here, I think Erik QUantrom (9atom) and the 9front people may be less
reluctant to host your efforts in their distributions.

Myself, I don't have a clean enough Plan 9 distribution of any nature
that will compile your release out of the box, probably through no
fault of your own.  I also have some unorthodox ideas of how I would
go about merging the distributions, but anyone in their right mind
would wait for me to deliver before contemplating the options.

I'll need your help and knowledge to get everything to work on my
Yeeloong laptop, but at this point I'm still trying to find a stable
foundation from which to start.  As soon as I have made some progress,
I'll be in touch.

In the meantime, it may be useful to find out who, besides the two of
us, owns a Yeeloong or any other Lemote kit to experiment with.  Oh,
Stallman doesn't really count.

Lucio.

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[David du Colombier]

> Indeed I have a question about unifying the 2E and 2F kernels.
> Currently 2F is separated so that it is convenient for me to
> experiment new code for 2F hardwares without worrying breaking 2E.
> Eventually it might be better to unify them. I think it is possible to
> share the C code, with specific hardware enabled/disabled in
> configuration file. Mainly the differences are some #define'd or enum
> constants in mem.h and io.h, including IRQ and some addresses. What
> would be the best way to do it?

Maybe you could define them as variables in the port section
of the configuration files. I think this is particularly
relevant for things like screen resolution.

For example:

port
	int width = 1024;
	int height = 600;

You could also define something like ln2e and ln2f variables
and make some code depending on these conditions. The best
would be to detect the cpu revision automatically. Is it
possible in your case?

Perhaps others have better ideas.

> Would it be possible to upstream this port to distribution? Minux
> strongly encouraged me to do so.

You may want to contact Jim McKie and explain your work and
motivations to get it merged into the Plan 9 distribution.

--
David du Colombier

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[cherry]

On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 3:23 AM, David du Colombier <0intro@gmail.com> wrote:
> Awesome job! Thanks.
>
> --
> David du Colombier
>
Thanks again!

Indeed I have a question about unifying the 2E and 2F kernels.
Currently 2F is separated so that it is convenient for me to
experiment new code for 2F hardwares without worrying breaking 2E.
Eventually it might be better to unify them. I think it is possible to
share the C code, with specific hardware enabled/disabled in
configuration file. Mainly the differences are some #define'd or enum
constants in mem.h and io.h, including IRQ and some addresses. What
would be the best way to do it?

Would it be possible to upstream this port to distribution? Minux
strongly encouraged me to do so.

Thanks,
- cherry

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[cherry]

On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 1:54 AM, Fausto Saporito
<fausto.saporito@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yep it's cool!
> I have one from Tekmote (supplier for all Europe).
> They have also a laptop with Loongson 3 (full MIPS64).
Thank all!
Yes, they do. Loongson 3A is multicore, which I would like to play
with. But it is too far expensive to me...

- cherry

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[David du Colombier]

Awesome job! Thanks.

--
David du Colombier

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[Fausto Saporito]

Yep it's cool!
I have one from Tekmote (supplier for all Europe).
They have also a laptop with Loongson 3 (full MIPS64).

2014-08-15 6:41 GMT+02:00 Skip Tavakkolian <skip.tavakkolian@gmail.com>:
> thanks! this is cool.
>
> btw, the only supplier i can find is aliexpress. are there any others?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 7:07 PM, cherry <lunaria21@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello 9Fans,
>>
>> I just got a Loongson 2F machine (Yeeloong 8089A laptop) (MIPS LE), so
>> I extended my previous Loongson 2E port (32 bit) to run on it. Now
>> both machines can run Plan 9. Specific to 2F laptop, the keyboard,
>> mouse, screen and ethernet are supported. The hard drive is supported
>> only on 2E. USB does not work yet on either machine. And for the
>> userland of MIPS LE, all the commands built and seem to work okay,
>> including acme and page. If anybody interested, check it out at
>> https://bitbucket.org/cherry9/plan9-loongson
>> (lucio, is it the same machine as yours?)
>>
>> Currently the 2F kernel specific bits are kept in a separated
>> directory. It is quite similar to 2E but I haven't tried to unify both
>> kernels. Bind it before the 2E sources to use it.
>>
>> As a separated message, upon minux's request, I started to look into
>> 64 bit MIPS. Both 2E and 2F machines are 64 bit, though R4000-ish, not
>> standard MIPS64. Currently I build the compiler, 4c, based on the old
>> one from /n/sources/contrib/tim, now at
>> https://bitbucket.org/cherry9/4c
>>
>> With this compiler, the 64 bit kernel is in progress. For now, it
>> boots on my 2E machine, with serial console only. I haven't got time
>> to look into any device drivers. PCI space is 32 bit... Will do it
>> ASAP.
>>
>> Hope this message is useful.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -cherry
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[Skip Tavakkolian]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1564 bytes --]

thanks! this is cool.

btw, the only supplier i can find is aliexpress. are there any others?



On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 7:07 PM, cherry <lunaria21@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello 9Fans,
>
> I just got a Loongson 2F machine (Yeeloong 8089A laptop) (MIPS LE), so
> I extended my previous Loongson 2E port (32 bit) to run on it. Now
> both machines can run Plan 9. Specific to 2F laptop, the keyboard,
> mouse, screen and ethernet are supported. The hard drive is supported
> only on 2E. USB does not work yet on either machine. And for the
> userland of MIPS LE, all the commands built and seem to work okay,
> including acme and page. If anybody interested, check it out at
> https://bitbucket.org/cherry9/plan9-loongson
> (lucio, is it the same machine as yours?)
>
> Currently the 2F kernel specific bits are kept in a separated
> directory. It is quite similar to 2E but I haven't tried to unify both
> kernels. Bind it before the 2E sources to use it.
>
> As a separated message, upon minux's request, I started to look into
> 64 bit MIPS. Both 2E and 2F machines are 64 bit, though R4000-ish, not
> standard MIPS64. Currently I build the compiler, 4c, based on the old
> one from /n/sources/contrib/tim, now at
> https://bitbucket.org/cherry9/4c
>
> With this compiler, the 64 bit kernel is in progress. For now, it
> boots on my 2E machine, with serial console only. I haven't got time
> to look into any device drivers. PCI space is 32 bit... Will do it
> ASAP.
>
> Hope this message is useful.
>
> Thanks,
> -cherry
>
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2097 bytes --]

[9fans] Loongson port, and 64 bit MIPS

[cherry]

Hello 9Fans,

I just got a Loongson 2F machine (Yeeloong 8089A laptop) (MIPS LE), so
I extended my previous Loongson 2E port (32 bit) to run on it. Now
both machines can run Plan 9. Specific to 2F laptop, the keyboard,
mouse, screen and ethernet are supported. The hard drive is supported
only on 2E. USB does not work yet on either machine. And for the
userland of MIPS LE, all the commands built and seem to work okay,
including acme and page. If anybody interested, check it out at
https://bitbucket.org/cherry9/plan9-loongson
(lucio, is it the same machine as yours?)

Currently the 2F kernel specific bits are kept in a separated
directory. It is quite similar to 2E but I haven't tried to unify both
kernels. Bind it before the 2E sources to use it.

As a separated message, upon minux's request, I started to look into
64 bit MIPS. Both 2E and 2F machines are 64 bit, though R4000-ish, not
standard MIPS64. Currently I build the compiler, 4c, based on the old
one from /n/sources/contrib/tim, now at
https://bitbucket.org/cherry9/4c

With this compiler, the 64 bit kernel is in progress. For now, it
boots on my 2E machine, with serial console only. I haven't got time
to look into any device drivers. PCI space is 32 bit... Will do it
ASAP.

Hope this message is useful.

Thanks,
-cherry