9fans - fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: blstuart@bellsouth.net
To: 9fans@9fans.net
Subject: Re: [9fans] Changelogs & Patches?
Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 15:44:59 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <0f120489807d451fadb7c7768fef6dbe@bellsouth.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20081226185254.GA1176@polynum.com>

> On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 01:20:17PM -0500, erik quanstrom wrote:
>> appropriately, this being a plan 9 list and all, i find code
>> written from the bottom up easier to read.
>
> Depending on the task (on the aim of the software), one happens to split
> from top to bottom, and to review and amend from bottom to top.
> There is a navigation between the two.
>
> Bottom to top is more easier because you are building more complicate
> stuff from basic stuff.

Some time back, I was trying to understand how to teach the
reality of composing software.  (Yes, I do think of it as a creative
activity very similar to composing music.)  The top-down and
bottom-up ideas abound and make sense, but they never seemed
to capture the reality.  Then one day, after introspecting on the
way I write code, I realized it's not one or the other; it's outside-in.
I don't know what little tools I need to build until I have some
sense of the big picture, but I can't really establish the exact
boundaries between major elements until I've worked out the
cleanest way to build the lower-level bits.  So I iterative work
back and forth between big picture and building blocks until
they meet in the middle.

As an aside, that's also when I realized what had always bugged
me about the classic approach to team programming.  The
interfaces between major parts really comes last, but in assigning
work to team members, you have to force it to come first.
And of course, from that perpsective, it makes perfect sense
why the best examples of programming are ones where the
first versions are created by only 1 or 2 people and why the
monstrosities created by large teams of "professional software
engineers" are so often massive collections of mechanisms
that don't work well together.

BLS




  reply	other threads:[~2008-12-26 21:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 91+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-12-22 15:27 Venkatesh Srinivas
2008-12-22 15:29 ` erik quanstrom
2008-12-22 16:41 ` Charles Forsyth
2008-12-25  6:34   ` Roman Shaposhnik
2008-12-25  6:40     ` erik quanstrom
2008-12-26  4:28       ` Roman Shaposhnik
2008-12-26  4:45         ` lucio
2008-12-26  4:57         ` Anthony Sorace
2008-12-26  6:19           ` blstuart
2008-12-27  8:00           ` Roman Shaposhnik
2008-12-27 11:56             ` erik quanstrom
2008-12-30  0:31               ` Roman Shaposhnik
2008-12-30  0:57                 ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-05  5:19                   ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2009-01-05  5:28                     ` erik quanstrom
2008-12-22 17:03 ` Devon H. O'Dell
2008-12-23  4:31   ` Uriel
2008-12-23  4:46 ` Nathaniel W Filardo
2008-12-25  6:50   ` Roman Shaposhnik
2008-12-25 14:37     ` erik quanstrom
2008-12-26 13:27       ` Charles Forsyth
2008-12-26 13:33         ` Charles Forsyth
2008-12-26 14:27         ` tlaronde
2008-12-26 17:25           ` blstuart
2008-12-26 18:14             ` tlaronde
2008-12-26 18:20               ` erik quanstrom
2008-12-26 18:52                 ` tlaronde
2008-12-26 21:44                   ` blstuart [this message]
2008-12-26 22:04                     ` Eris Discordia
2008-12-26 22:30                       ` erik quanstrom
2008-12-26 23:00                         ` blstuart
2008-12-27  6:04                         ` Eris Discordia
2008-12-27 10:36                           ` tlaronde
2008-12-27 16:27                             ` Eris Discordia
2008-12-29 23:54         ` Roman Shaposhnik
2008-12-30  0:13           ` hiro
2008-12-30  1:07           ` erik quanstrom
2008-12-30  1:48           ` Charles Forsyth
2008-12-30 13:18             ` Uriel
2008-12-30 15:06               ` C H Forsyth
2008-12-30 17:31                 ` Uriel
2008-12-31  1:58                   ` Noah Evans
2009-01-03 22:03           ` sqweek
2009-01-05  5:05             ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2009-01-05  5:12               ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-06  5:06                 ` Roman Shaposhnik
2009-01-06 13:55                   ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-05  5:24               ` andrey mirtchovski
2009-01-06  5:49                 ` Roman Shaposhnik
2009-01-06 14:22                   ` andrey mirtchovski
2009-01-06 16:19                     ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-06 23:23                       ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2009-01-06 23:44                         ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-08  0:36                           ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2009-01-08  1:11                             ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-20  6:20                               ` Roman Shaposhnik
2009-01-20 14:19                                 ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-20 22:30                                   ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2009-01-20 23:36                                     ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-21  1:43                                       ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2009-01-21  2:02                                         ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-26  6:28                                           ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2009-01-26 13:42                                             ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-26 16:15                                               ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2009-01-26 16:39                                                 ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-27  4:45                                                   ` Roman Shaposhnik
2009-01-21 19:02                                         ` Uriel
2009-01-21 19:53                                           ` Steve Simon
2009-01-24  3:15                                             ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2009-01-24  3:36                                               ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-26  6:21                                                 ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2009-01-26 13:53                                                   ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-26 16:21                                                     ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2009-01-26 17:37                                                       ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-27  4:51                                                         ` Roman Shaposhnik
2009-01-27  5:44                                                           ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-21 20:01                                           ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-24  3:19                                           ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2009-01-24  3:25                                             ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-20  6:48                     ` Roman Shaposhnik
2009-01-20 14:13                       ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-20 16:19                         ` Steve Simon
2009-01-20 23:52                       ` andrey mirtchovski
2009-01-21  4:49                         ` Dave Eckhardt
2009-01-21  6:38                         ` Steve Simon
2009-01-21 14:02                           ` erik quanstrom
2009-01-26  6:16                         ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2009-01-26 16:22                           ` Russ Cox
2009-01-26 19:42                             ` Roman V. Shaposhnik
2009-01-26 20:11                               ` Steve Simon
2008-12-27  7:40       ` Roman Shaposhnik

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=0f120489807d451fadb7c7768fef6dbe@bellsouth.net \
    --to=blstuart@bellsouth.net \
    --cc=9fans@9fans.net \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).