Re: [9fans] insularity

[Dave Lukes <davel@anvil.com>]

> oh for f***'s sake!

Careful: you're next:-).

> ok, so david tolpin has been a bit verbose, (and we're naturally
> suspicious that his deep involvement with XML implies a fundamental
> lack of taste)

Not the deep involvement:
I and at least one or 2 other people on this list have used XML,
but don't evangelise about it 'cos we know it's barfious.

>  but when it comes down to it, he's has actually dived
> in there and done stuff.

Cool, which means he's halfway there.

> most newcomers to plan 9 don't get further than booting the damn
> thing.

Which means that some people don't want to talk to them,
which is fine too!


> i think people that have been involved in this stuff for a long time
> forget the distance between plan 9 and other systems.

No, I continually thank my non-existent deity for that distance.

>   yes, most stuff
> is documented (often by implication), but having someone to talk to
> that knows about the system makes all the difference.

Yes, but expecting them to answer _all_ your questions is not useful.

>   i think all
> david's questions have been perfectly acceptable, and i wouldn't have
> thought twice about answering them had they been asked by someone
> across the room.

Fine.  We differ.

> this system *needs* people with some energy to spare, otherwise it'll
> continue to decline the way it has been since the great scattering from
> bell labs.

I don't see the benefit in involving people who don't "get it":
we'll end up with linux again.

Also, if plan9 dies, then maybe it will be down to bad luck,
or maybe it deserves to, because it ain't good enough.
If that is the case, then, in another few years,
some bright spark in a room somewhere will say,
"I know, let's write our own ..." and history will repeat itself.

>   if this is the way we treat someone who appears to have
> some energy and inclination, then i've no hope at all.

We treat everyone the same around here ...

>   i'm ashamed to
> be part of this group.

Then don't be.

I admit to being ashamed of my own brutality at times,
but the alternative (spoonfeeding people)
is far, far worse.

> > If you can't get over this initial conceptual hump,
> > then fuck off back to CrapOS and leave us alone.

> *cringe*

I stand by it:
if you're not willing to do the brainwork to understand the system,
don't use it.  It ain't Windows.

	Dave.