[9fans] Google Summer of code 2009

[9fans] Google Summer of code 2009

[hugo rivera]

I heard that there will be a GSoC this year, are there any plans to
get plan 9 as a mentoring organization?

--
Saludos

Hugo

Re: [9fans] Google Summer of code 2009

[Dave Eckhardt]

> I heard that there will be a GSoC this year, are there
> any plans to get plan 9 as a mentoring organization?

There has been some discussion about this among the people who
put together last year's application.

For whatever mixture of factors, we ended up "below the line"
last year.  This year more groups are expected to apply, and
Google has indicated they plan to support fewer groups and
fewer students this year as compared to last year.  Each of
those trends seems likely to push us further "below the line"
if we submit a similar application again this year.

For that reason, the thinking is that this summer we should
pursue alternative courses of action.  Examples might include
organizing some bug-fixing weekends or install fests, improving
performance and usability of Plan 9 in various VM's (since this
is probably the safest way to ensure that a new user's install
works the *first* time)...

Next year maybe we'll be different, and maybe GSoC will be
different.

Dave Eckhardt

Re: [9fans] Google Summer of code 2009

[hugo rivera]

uh, sorry to hear that.
Well, maybe next year...
Saludos

2009/3/6, Dave Eckhardt <davide+p9@cs.cmu.edu>:
> > I heard that there will be a GSoC this year, are there
>  > any plans to get plan 9 as a mentoring organization?
>
>
> There has been some discussion about this among the people who
>  put together last year's application.
>
>  For whatever mixture of factors, we ended up "below the line"
>  last year.  This year more groups are expected to apply, and
>  Google has indicated they plan to support fewer groups and
>  fewer students this year as compared to last year.  Each of
>  those trends seems likely to push us further "below the line"
>  if we submit a similar application again this year.
>
>  For that reason, the thinking is that this summer we should
>  pursue alternative courses of action.  Examples might include
>  organizing some bug-fixing weekends or install fests, improving
>  performance and usability of Plan 9 in various VM's (since this
>  is probably the safest way to ensure that a new user's install
>  works the *first* time)...
>
>  Next year maybe we'll be different, and maybe GSoC will be
>  different.
>
>
>  Dave Eckhardt
>
>


--
Hugo

Re: [9fans] Google Summer of code 2009

[Uriel]

Uhu? Who 'decided' this? And where was this 'discussed'? Certainly not
in any of the Plan 9 GSoC lists.

It is total nonsense not to apply based on pure speculation, and you
can be certain there will be an application, whatever it will be
accepted or not, who knows, and what evidence there is that things
will be any better a year from now?

Hackathons, and other 'events' have been proposed in the past, and
nobody has shown any interest in them other than to ridicule the
concept.

Five, four, and three years ago people were saying the same nonsense,
and nobody ever did anything, until somebody got feed up and applied,
some things went very wrong, but other useful stuff came out of it.

I have yet to see anything useful come from the attitude reigning in
other parts of the 'community' though, maybe ten years from now the
new 64 bit kernel will be released...

uriel

P.S.: Also note that as far as I know Glendix and suckless.org will be
applying, Inferno DS might, and Inferno OS should certainly apply too,
but I'm not counting on it.



On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 6:31 PM, hugo rivera <uair00@gmail.com> wrote:
> uh, sorry to hear that.
> Well, maybe next year...
> Saludos
>
> 2009/3/6, Dave Eckhardt <davide+p9@cs.cmu.edu>:
>> > I heard that there will be a GSoC this year, are there
>>  > any plans to get plan 9 as a mentoring organization?
>>
>>
>> There has been some discussion about this among the people who
>>  put together last year's application.
>>
>>  For whatever mixture of factors, we ended up "below the line"
>>  last year.  This year more groups are expected to apply, and
>>  Google has indicated they plan to support fewer groups and
>>  fewer students this year as compared to last year.  Each of
>>  those trends seems likely to push us further "below the line"
>>  if we submit a similar application again this year.
>>
>>  For that reason, the thinking is that this summer we should
>>  pursue alternative courses of action.  Examples might include
>>  organizing some bug-fixing weekends or install fests, improving
>>  performance and usability of Plan 9 in various VM's (since this
>>  is probably the safest way to ensure that a new user's install
>>  works the *first* time)...
>>
>>  Next year maybe we'll be different, and maybe GSoC will be
>>  different.
>>
>>
>>  Dave Eckhardt
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Hugo
>
>

Re: [9fans] Google Summer of code 2009

[Anthony Sorace]

uriel, remain calm. he said the discussion was among the people who
ran last year's application. that's fine: they can have whatever
conversations they like, wherever they like. if they've decided their
time is better spent elsewhere, that's their decision.

on the specific actions suggest, too, i'm all for them. it sounds like
they're thinking about some very directed actions that could get good
results. and those sorts of actions also, in my estimation, match with
the sorts of "community" considerations Google uses for evaluation.
there's certainly no conflict there.

for myself, i still think a GSoC application is worth the time, and I
still intend to do one.

Re: [9fans] Google Summer of code 2009

[Brian L. Stuart]

> For whatever mixture of factors, we ended up "below the line"
> last year.  This year more groups are expected to apply, and
> Google has indicated they plan to support fewer groups and
> fewer students this year as compared to last year.  Each of
> those trends seems likely to push us further "below the line"
> if we submit a similar application again this year.

As it turns out, I was in a presentation today given by the
key SOC people from Google.  The thing that really caught
my attention was that they made a point of saying that they
gave particular preference to projects/groups that would
put forward mentors that they could be confident would
have a successful project completion.  That's not to say
that they don't have confidence in the mentors from Plan9
and Inferno, but that does seems to be a lot of what goes
into the placement of that line.

As to how many groups and students, they didn't say anything
about that other than to show that each year the numbers had
increased.  They also said the money pool was planned to be
the same as last year.

BLS

Re: [9fans] Google Summer of code 2009

[maht]

    *
*

> organizing some bug-fixing weekends or install fests, improving
> performance and usability of Plan 9 in various VM's (since this
> is probably the safest way to ensure that a new user's install
> works the *first* time)...
>
I sent a Plan9 Qemu qcow to the osZoo people a while ago but never eben
got a reply.

I just checked again now and they've got a different submissions system

http://www.oszoo.org/wiki/index.php/FreeOsZoo:Submission_Guidelines

So time to re-do it, I'll do it when I get a minute, unless someone
beats me to it :)

Matt

Re: [9fans] Google Summer of code 2009

[Dave Eckhardt]

> As to how many groups and students, they didn't say anything
> about that other than to show that each year the numbers had
> increased.

Our prospects were evaluated with some care.  In particular,
Google has stated, publicly, in writing, that they expect to
fund ~10% fewer students and thus fewer organizations this year.

> http://code.google.com/opensource/gsoc/2009/faqs.html
>
> 4. How many mentoring organizations does Google expect to take
> part in the program?
>
> We worked with 40 organizations in 2005, over 100 in 2006,
> over 130 in 2007 and 175 in 2008.  We expect slightly fewer
> organizations to take part in 2009, as we've capped the number
> of student participants at 1,000.
>
> 5. How many students does Google expect to take part in the
> program?
>
> We funded approximately 400 student projects in 2005, 600 in
> 2006, 900 in 2007 and 1125 in 2008.  We'll be funding
> approximately 1,000 student projects in 2009.

Dave Eckhardt

Re: [9fans] Google Summer of code 2009

[erik quanstrom]

> I don't know about ACPI, but it struck me that Plan 9 was in a far
> batter position to deal with the foibles of USB than any other OS I
> am familiar with (IMO, PCI was similar, but the opportunity was
> missed), I'm pleased Nemo is able to provide help there.

what was missed with pci?  plan 9 doesn't do pcie extended
configuration space, but that's mostly a waste of 256mb.
what am i missing?

- erik

Re: [9fans] Google Summer of code 2009

[lucio]

> It's a mess. ACPI sucks. But it's what we have to work with.

I don't know about ACPI, but it struck me that Plan 9 was in a far
batter position to deal with the foibles of USB than any other OS I
am familiar with (IMO, PCI was similar, but the opportunity was
missed), I'm pleased Nemo is able to provide help there.

++L

Re: [9fans] Google Summer of code 2009

[erik quanstrom]

> > what's the pressure point here?
> >
>
> The number of mainboards that have incorrect PIR, MP, tables that are
> correct in ACPI. The fact that so many functions, for correct
> operation, need ACPI.
>
> It's a mess. ACPI sucks. But it's what we have to work with.

this is just my perspective on the matter, but i find the mp
tables often get fixed, and when they don't the results are
mostly annoying.  my core i7 motherboard, for example, doesn't
see it's ht processors.  i can live with that.  i still have 4.

(the biggest sticking point with the mp tables is the interrupts.
this can also be fixed by using msi interrupts.  i think that would
offer a bigger bang/buck factor.  the performance of 8259 or even
mp interrupts is pretty poor.)

on the other hand, nvidia graphics drive me bats.  it would
make a bigger difference to me to have good amd or intel
gma graphics support.

just my own perspective.  maybe i'm out of touch and have just
been lucky picking motherboards.

that's not to say acpi isn't a good thing to get done.  it's just that
personally i'd rank it lower than a few other things. ymmv.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Google Summer of code 2009

[ron minnich]

On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 3:59 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>> Acpi is also needed asap.
>
> what's the pressure point here?
>

The number of mainboards that have incorrect PIR, MP, tables that are
correct in ACPI. The fact that so many functions, for correct
operation, need ACPI.

It's a mess. ACPI sucks. But it's what we have to work with.

ron

Re: [9fans] Google Summer of code 2009

[erik quanstrom]

> Acpi is also needed asap.

what's the pressure point here?

- erik

Re: [9fans] Google Summer of code 2009

[Francisco J Ballesteros]

If anyone is looking for projects I am working on USB and it's for  
sure there will be many drivers that could be done once the controller  
drivers get finished, what shouldn't take much time now. I'm willing  
to help anyone willing  to work on such "projects".
Acpi is also needed asap.

Probably it's better to get working and forget about gsoc before doing  
something.
IMHO
El 06/03/2009, a las 21:27, anothy@gmail.com escribió:

> uriel, remain calm. he said the discussion was among the people who
> ran last year's application. that's fine: they can have whatever
> conversations they like, wherever they like. if they've decided their
> time is better spent elsewhere, that's their decision.
>
> on the specific actions suggest, too, i'm all for them. it sounds like
> they're thinking about some very directed actions that could get good
> results. and those sorts of actions also, in my estimation, match with
> the sorts of "community" considerations Google uses for evaluation.
> there's certainly no conflict there.
>
> for myself, i still think a GSoC application is worth the time, and I
> still intend to do one.
>
> [/mail/box/nemo/msgs/200903/35660]