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* [9fans] A few questions about sam 
@ 2021-07-22 13:38 revcomninos
  2021-07-22 13:57 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: revcomninos @ 2021-07-22 13:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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I have a few questions about sam which have not thus far been answered for me as I am reading the documentation. I thought that instead of putting them in separate posts, I could just put them into one.  I hope this is acceptable. Please let me know if is not. 

 * The sam window is not always responsive to commands. Under what specific conditions is this the case?
 * Must every sam file end with a newline? I.e. even files with simple text? I sometimes get the "?newline expected" error, which I would like to avoid if possible.
 * Is there a way to repeat the last entered command in sam without having to snarf and paste? I know one can repeat the last search with //.
 * The sam tutorial speaks of sam being "downloaded". (*A tutorial for the sam language*.) I am not exactly sure what "downloaded" means in this context.
 * In ed the "e" command allows one to switch files. It replaces the current file with another. To add a file to the list in sam, one should use B not e. Is that correct? I.e. it would seem "e" is allowed but not sam's natural way of doing things?
 * Is there a way of saving the state of one's windows in sam?
I have used "Emacs" for the last 8 years, but must confess that *sam* is very special. 
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* Re: [9fans] A few questions about sam
  2021-07-22 13:38 [9fans] A few questions about sam revcomninos
@ 2021-07-22 13:57 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-07-22 14:59   ` revcomninos
  2021-07-22 19:10 ` mcz
  2021-07-22 19:24 ` Charles Forsyth
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir @ 2021-07-22 13:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

>  * Is there a way of saving the state of one's windows in sam?

For that (and many more sam goodness) I recommend checking out
http://runjimmyrunrunyoufuckerrun.com/rc/s


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* Re: [9fans] A few questions about sam
  2021-07-22 13:57 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2021-07-22 14:59   ` revcomninos
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: revcomninos @ 2021-07-22 14:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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That's awesome. Thanks so much Sigrid. 
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* Re: [9fans] A few questions about sam
  2021-07-22 13:38 [9fans] A few questions about sam revcomninos
  2021-07-22 13:57 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
@ 2021-07-22 19:10 ` mcz
  2021-07-22 19:18   ` Charles Forsyth
  2021-07-22 19:24 ` Charles Forsyth
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: mcz @ 2021-07-22 19:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

>  * Must every sam file end with a newline? I.e. even files with simple text?

No, I don't think sam cares.

> I sometimes get the "?newline expected" error,

In sam version I use, it's just a warning. The file is saved without newline at
the end, unless I add it there.

> which I would like to avoid if possible.

The best way to avoid the warning about the missing newline character is to add
the missing newline character.

Some programs (POSIX world, ANSI C) assume that every line ends with newline
character, so most editors add it for you if it's missing. Sam apparently 
thinks it's good to have it, but doesn't get in your way if you don't add it.

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* Re: [9fans] A few questions about sam
  2021-07-22 19:10 ` mcz
@ 2021-07-22 19:18   ` Charles Forsyth
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2021-07-22 19:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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>/tmp/x: ?warning: last char not newline

is a warning you get when you try to write a file that doesn't end with a
newline, the other message:

> I sometimes get the "?newline expected" error,

is provoked by a syntax error in a command in the sam (command) window. For
instance, try typing
   qx
(and a newline)
it expects nl after q

On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 8:14 PM mcz <emcze@ya.ru> wrote:

> >  * Must every sam file end with a newline? I.e. even files with simple
> text?
>
> No, I don't think sam cares.
>
> > I sometimes get the "?newline expected" error,
>
> In sam version I use, it's just a warning. The file is saved without
> newline at
> the end, unless I add it there.
>
> > which I would like to avoid if possible.
> 
> The best way to avoid the warning about the missing newline character is
> to add
> the missing newline character.
> 
> Some programs (POSIX world, ANSI C) assume that every line ends with
> newline
> character, so most editors add it for you if it's missing. Sam apparently
> thinks it's good to have it, but doesn't get in your way if you don't add
> it.

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* Re: [9fans] A few questions about sam
  2021-07-22 13:38 [9fans] A few questions about sam revcomninos
  2021-07-22 13:57 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
  2021-07-22 19:10 ` mcz
@ 2021-07-22 19:24 ` Charles Forsyth
  2021-07-22 20:18   ` revcomninos
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2021-07-22 19:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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>
>
>    - The sam tutorial speaks of sam being "downloaded". (*A tutorial for
>    the sam language*.) I am not exactly sure what "downloaded" means in
>    this context.
>
> sam originally ran on a terminal that had its own little operating system
and applications could be downloaded into each terminal window.
sam ran in two parts: sam on the host and samterm (downloaded) on the
terminal. they communicate using a unique protocol.
Here's a video about the original Blit terminal and how that works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emh22gT5e9k
(The original editor on the Blit was jim.)
sam is described in detail in a paper:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=https%3A%2F%2F9p.io%2Fsys%2Fdoc%2Fsam%2Fsam.pdf

Permalink
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T60b5c1929a63b077-Mf1461873910abb65e9700e7e>
>

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* Re: [9fans] A few questions about sam
  2021-07-22 19:24 ` Charles Forsyth
@ 2021-07-22 20:18   ` revcomninos
  2021-07-22 23:45     ` Silas McCroskey
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: revcomninos @ 2021-07-22 20:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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Thank you both for your responses. I am going to consider them more carefully and revert back. 
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* Re: [9fans] A few questions about sam
  2021-07-22 20:18   ` revcomninos
@ 2021-07-22 23:45     ` Silas McCroskey
  2021-07-23  4:47       ` revcomninos
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Silas McCroskey @ 2021-07-22 23:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> The sam window is not always responsive to commands. Under what specific conditions is this the case?

I can think of a few cases:

* You issued an I/O command (shell, read file, write file, etc.) and
it's still in progress (there will always be output you can wait for
in these cases, e.g. the second '!' for shell commands). There's no
way I know of to kill an issued command from within sam (e.g. del key
doesn't work); if you launched something that's infinite looping or
the like you'd have to find it via ps and send a signal/note.
* You're entering commands on something other than the last line
("history" is editable, as in normal plan 9 terminals, which can be
particularly confusing in sam, as there's no prompt).
* You've started a compound command spanning multiple lines (e.g. with
{ } braces) and haven't completed it yet.

> is there a way to repeat the last entered command in sam without having to snarf and paste? I know one can repeat the last search with //.

Not that I know of, sadly. Bare 's' to repeat is one of the things I
miss most about ed. Samterm's 'send' (send the highlighted text (or
the current snarf buffer) for execution) might be a slightly faster
idiom than snarf+paste+enter, though.

> In ed the "e" command allows one to switch files. It replaces the current file with another. To add a file to the list in sam, one should use B not e. Is that correct? I.e. it would seem "e" is allowed but not sam's natural way of doing things?

B and b are both useful for this, yes. The former will load a new file
if that path isn't already in the menu, the latter will only switch to
already-loaded files.

'b' can be combined with X to good effect, in spite of that clearly
not being an anticipated case:
X/pathregex/b

will print "?blank expected" but still switch to the file matching
pathregex, so you don't need to type (or copy+paste) the full path.

- Silas

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* Re: [9fans] A few questions about sam
  2021-07-22 23:45     ` Silas McCroskey
@ 2021-07-23  4:47       ` revcomninos
  2021-07-23  5:42         ` Silas McCroskey
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: revcomninos @ 2021-07-23  4:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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Thanks to all!

* As far as sam windows being unresponsive, of the reasons suggested, it seems that in my case I am not always entering commands on the last line. When this happens, the sam window does not respond to commands and gets stuck and I am only thereafter able to enter a command if I save the current file. This also sometimes happens after I hit "u". Not sure why.
* X/pathregex/b is a great tip. Thanks. 
* I did try using 'send' but it gives me a ?bad delimiter `e' error.
* Thank you for the clarification and resources Charles. I will go through the paper you recommended. Thanks too for helping me distinguish the newline errors. I had not noticed the difference between them.

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* Re: [9fans] A few questions about sam
  2021-07-23  4:47       ` revcomninos
@ 2021-07-23  5:42         ` Silas McCroskey
  2021-07-23  9:53           ` revcomninos
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Silas McCroskey @ 2021-07-23  5:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> * I did try using 'send' but it gives me a ?bad delimiter `e' error.
send is a command on the middle-click menu in samterm, not part of the
sam language.

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* Re: [9fans] A few questions about sam
  2021-07-23  5:42         ` Silas McCroskey
@ 2021-07-23  9:53           ` revcomninos
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: revcomninos @ 2021-07-23  9:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

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Oh, that's great! Missed that. 
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end of thread, other threads:[~2021-07-23  9:53 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-07-22 13:38 [9fans] A few questions about sam revcomninos
2021-07-22 13:57 ` Sigrid Solveig Haflínudóttir
2021-07-22 14:59   ` revcomninos
2021-07-22 19:10 ` mcz
2021-07-22 19:18   ` Charles Forsyth
2021-07-22 19:24 ` Charles Forsyth
2021-07-22 20:18   ` revcomninos
2021-07-22 23:45     ` Silas McCroskey
2021-07-23  4:47       ` revcomninos
2021-07-23  5:42         ` Silas McCroskey
2021-07-23  9:53           ` revcomninos

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