Re: [9fans] samuel

Re: [9fans] samuel

[Russ Cox]

I'm impressed.  We're in the middle of a religious war
over editors and neither emacs nor vi is involved.

As was pointed out earlier, it's trivial to use cscope-like
tools quite naturally with acme.  The same was not true
of sam when samuel got written; now that sam has
plumbing it might fit better, but it still pales in
comparison to acme.  For many acme users, the
cscope-like tool of choice is grep, especially
since cscope doesn't compile on Plan 9 (it's too tied
to curses [sic]).

If you really care, give acme+grep or acme+cscope
a try before you knock it -- acme's great strength
is how well it integrates external commands.

AFAICT, rob is the only person who has tried both
samuel and acme+grep and expressed an opinion.
Thus far, consensus among the informed seems to
be unanimous: acme+grep beats samuel.

Re: [9fans] samuel

[Thomas Bushnell, BSG]

rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com (Russ Cox) writes:

> I'm impressed.  We're in the middle of a religious war
> over editors and neither emacs nor vi is involved.

Emacs is not an editor, it's a comprehensive user interface
environment.  

That's why it gets such strong emotions: people who think it should
just be an editor, or who dislike the particular UI environment it
gives you, hate it.

People who compare it only against other editors and find it way
better also miss the point, because to be fair, it should be compared
against the whole suite of editor, debugger UI, news reader, mail
client, etc.

I prefer emacs over other user interfaces because

1) I need to move the mouse less
2) The same commands (nearly) work everywhere
3) My brain happens to be well wired for it.

But I once was a perfectly content vi user, and I can use it pretty
darn efficiently too.  I'm sure the same is true for nearly any sane
editor, and insane ones really just aren't in the running.  So I find
editor wars singularly boring.

Actually, the most important reason I don't use vi is that I use the
Dvorak keyboard, and the use of positional keys in vi (hjkl) is a pain
when you are using a different key layout.

Re: [9fans] samuel

[ozan s. yigit]

rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com (Russ Cox) wrote:

> 			For many acme users, the
> cscope-like tool of choice is grep, especially
> since cscope doesn't compile on Plan 9 (it's too tied
> to curses [sic]).

i have occasionally used a small toolkit named id [later gnufied and
forgotten as idutils; a non-gnu version cleaned up by mark moraes is
still around in ftp.cs.utoronto.ca] it requires an identifier database
be built forehand. even though it has many creaky parts, it did have
a few interesting features; numeric identifiers are searched in all
radixes:

	lid 235

0353           sys/src/cmd/dd.c sys/src/cmd/troff/hytab.c
0x00EB         sys/src/cmd/tcs/tcs.c
0xEB           sys/src/boot/pc/x16.h sys/src/9/boot/key.c

since the database contains proper identifiers, lid regular expressions
apply not to lines but to identifiers:

	lid '^xx'

xxxincoff      sys/src/cmd/troff/n3.c
xxxvers        sys/src/ape/cmd/make/ident.c
xxyy           sys/src/cmd/gs/src/gspaint.c

output is path adjusted relative to the id database:

	lid 'xx$'

errxx          ../ape/cmd/expr/expr.y

and so on.

id tools had the idea of having scanners for different languages, but
only C, assembler and text scanners were implemented.

oz
---
www.cs.yorku.ca/~oz      | don't count your chickens in glass houses
york u. computer science | until the cows come home. -- david vestal

[9fans] no longer samuel

[Quinn Dunkan]

> Actually, the most important reason I don't use vi is that I use the
> Dvorak keyboard, and the use of positional keys in vi (hjkl) is a pain
> when you are using a different key layout.

I use vi in dvorak and find the qwerty positions for hjkl pretty bizarre.
Not to mention unnatural.  Possibly even insane.


In other news, has Russ (or anyone) written a python wrapper for _plan9 to plug
it into os.py and make import site happy, among other things?  I've started but
I don't want to duplicate work.

... or maybe it was in the tarball but I missed it.  Then I'd feel dumb.

Re: [9fans] no longer samuel

[Thomas Bushnell, BSG]

quinn@groat.ugcs.caltech.edu (Quinn Dunkan) writes:

> > Actually, the most important reason I don't use vi is that I use the
> > Dvorak keyboard, and the use of positional keys in vi (hjkl) is a pain
> > when you are using a different key layout.
> 
> I use vi in dvorak and find the qwerty positions for hjkl pretty bizarre.
> Not to mention unnatural.  Possibly even insane.

Hrm, maybe I've never tried hard enough.  Do you use arrow keys to
navigate, or do you just hit the dvorak hjkl and it doesn't bother you
at all? 

Since I switched to dvorak, I haven't been able to enjoy a single game
of hack/rogue, which is a lack far more important to me than what
editor I use...so if you have any real suggestions about vi in dvorak,
I'm interested, because I could profitably torque that into hack. :)

[9fans] Where can I find USB mouse support?

[Gene Garbutt]

I have searched the archives and it appears USB mouse support was an active
area of work around October of 2001. Was that work ever released, and if it
was, where can I find it?

Thanks,
-gwg

RE: [9fans] Where can I find USB mouse support?

[Pat Hacker]

Hi Gene,

Did you ever get a response to this question on USB support.  I too am
looking for USB support for keyboard and mouse.
Thanks
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Garbutt [mailto:9fans@cse.psu.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 9:25 AM
Subject: [9fans] Where can I find USB mouse support?


I have searched the archives and it appears USB mouse support was an active
area of work around October of 2001. Was that work ever released, and if it
was, where can I find it?

Thanks,
-gwg

RE: [9fans] Where can I find USB mouse support?

[Pat Hacker]

Rats. sorry for that.

RE: [9fans] Where can I find USB mouse support?

[Gene Garbutt]

No. I am still looking, though. If you find anything, I would appreciate a
pointer...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu [mailto:9fans-admin@cse.psu.edu]On Behalf
> Of Pat Hacker
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 10:33 AM
> To: Gene Garbutt
> Subject: RE: [9fans] Where can I find USB mouse support?
>
>
> Hi Gene,
>
> Did you ever get a response to this question on USB support.  I too am
> looking for USB support for keyboard and mouse.
> Thanks
> Pat
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene Garbutt [mailto:9fans@cse.psu.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 9:25 AM
> Subject: [9fans] Where can I find USB mouse support?
>
>
> I have searched the archives and it appears USB mouse support was
> an active
> area of work around October of 2001. Was that work ever released,
> and if it
> was, where can I find it?
>
> Thanks,
> -gwg
>
>
>