[9fans] managing windows in rio

[9fans] managing windows in rio

[lejatorn]

Hi all,

to cut it short: how do you guys do it?

Since I am not to the point where I run almost everything in the same
acme window, I need quite a few windows when I'm on p9 or in rio from
p9p. And I am having trouble finding and raising to focus the one I need
when there are more than, say, five of them on a res of 1280x800.

Sqweek pointed me to winwatch which seems rather neat, but there is no
such thing in p9p as far as I know, and no keyboard shortcut to cycle
through the various windows (except in cinap's hacked rio ;) ).
So I assume there must be a way to work efficiently through the
windows and I'm curious to know what are everyone habits and tricks for
that.

Thanks,
Mathieu.

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Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[andrey mirtchovski]

a non-plan9 solution: run rio with -virtuals num and have a few
different desktops, switching between them with the middle button.

i typically run 'rio -virtuals 4'

andrey

On Feb 7, 2008 10:22 AM,  <lejatorn@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> to cut it short: how do you guys do it?
>
> Since I am not to the point where I run almost everything in the same
> acme window, I need quite a few windows when I'm on p9 or in rio from
> p9p. And I am having trouble finding and raising to focus the one I need
> when there are more than, say, five of them on a res of 1280x800.
>
> Sqweek pointed me to winwatch which seems rather neat, but there is no
> such thing in p9p as far as I know, and no keyboard shortcut to cycle
> through the various windows (except in cinap's hacked rio ;) ).
> So I assume there must be a way to work efficiently through the
> windows and I'm curious to know what are everyone habits and tricks for
> that.
>
> Thanks,
> Mathieu.
>
> --
> GPG key on subkeys.pgp.net:
>
> KeyID:  | Fingerprint:
> 683DE5F3 | 4324 5818 39AA 9545 95C6 09AF B0A4 DFEA 683D E5F3
> --
>

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[lejatorn]

Ah thx, way easier like that!

On Thu, Feb 07, 2008 at 10:25:57AM -0700, andrey mirtchovski wrote:
> a non-plan9 solution: run rio with -virtuals num and have a few
> different desktops, switching between them with the middle button.
>
> i typically run 'rio -virtuals 4'
>
> andrey
>
> On Feb 7, 2008 10:22 AM,  <lejatorn@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > to cut it short: how do you guys do it?
> >
> > Since I am not to the point where I run almost everything in the same
> > acme window, I need quite a few windows when I'm on p9 or in rio from
> > p9p. And I am having trouble finding and raising to focus the one I need
> > when there are more than, say, five of them on a res of 1280x800.
> >
> > Sqweek pointed me to winwatch which seems rather neat, but there is no
> > such thing in p9p as far as I know, and no keyboard shortcut to cycle
> > through the various windows (except in cinap's hacked rio ;) ).
> > So I assume there must be a way to work efficiently through the
> > windows and I'm curious to know what are everyone habits and tricks for
> > that.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mathieu.
> >
> > --
> > GPG key on subkeys.pgp.net:
> >
> > KeyID:  | Fingerprint:
> > 683DE5F3 | 4324 5818 39AA 9545 95C6 09AF B0A4 DFEA 683D E5F3
> > --
> >

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Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[Lluís Batlle]

I use exactly the same virtuals. I really like the scrollwheel virtual
switching.
I also still use '-term xterm'.

But I wish I had a riofs, in order to write some scripts playing with
the windows, or using 'xbindkeys' for doing some wm tasks.

2008/2/7, andrey mirtchovski <mirtchovski@gmail.com>:
> a non-plan9 solution: run rio with -virtuals num and have a few
> different desktops, switching between them with the middle button.
>
> i typically run 'rio -virtuals 4'
>
> andrey
>
> On Feb 7, 2008 10:22 AM,  <lejatorn@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > to cut it short: how do you guys do it?
> >
> > Since I am not to the point where I run almost everything in the same
> > acme window, I need quite a few windows when I'm on p9 or in rio from
> > p9p. And I am having trouble finding and raising to focus the one I need
> > when there are more than, say, five of them on a res of 1280x800.
> >
> > Sqweek pointed me to winwatch which seems rather neat, but there is no
> > such thing in p9p as far as I know, and no keyboard shortcut to cycle
> > through the various windows (except in cinap's hacked rio ;) ).
> > So I assume there must be a way to work efficiently through the
> > windows and I'm curious to know what are everyone habits and tricks for
> > that.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mathieu.
> >
> > --
> > GPG key on subkeys.pgp.net:
> >
> > KeyID:  | Fingerprint:
> > 683DE5F3 | 4324 5818 39AA 9545 95C6 09AF B0A4 DFEA 683D E5F3
> > --
> >
>

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[john]

> I use exactly the same virtuals. I really like the scrollwheel virtual
> switching.
> I also still use '-term xterm'.
>
> But I wish I had a riofs, in order to write some scripts playing with
> the windows, or using 'xbindkeys' for doing some wm tasks.
>
> 2008/2/7, andrey mirtchovski <mirtchovski@gmail.com>:
>> a non-plan9 solution: run rio with -virtuals num and have a few
>> different desktops, switching between them with the middle button.
>>
>> i typically run 'rio -virtuals 4'
>>
>> andrey
>>
>> On Feb 7, 2008 10:22 AM,  <lejatorn@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > to cut it short: how do you guys do it?
>> >
>> > Since I am not to the point where I run almost everything in the same
>> > acme window, I need quite a few windows when I'm on p9 or in rio from
>> > p9p. And I am having trouble finding and raising to focus the one I need
>> > when there are more than, say, five of them on a res of 1280x800.
>> >
>> > Sqweek pointed me to winwatch which seems rather neat, but there is no
>> > such thing in p9p as far as I know, and no keyboard shortcut to cycle
>> > through the various windows (except in cinap's hacked rio ;) ).
>> > So I assume there must be a way to work efficiently through the
>> > windows and I'm curious to know what are everyone habits and tricks for
>> > that.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Mathieu.
>> >

I've quit using p9p rio... to use multiple desktops well, you need a scroll
wheel, but using a scroll wheel for midclick is terrible. Now, I use a real
3 button mouse and stumpwm on Linux.
Anyway, back to Plan 9... I always have two drawterm windows open to different
systems. One is for mail, IRC, and different crap, and the other is for work.
The work one has the most windows open; I tend to keep a big acme right in the
center and a bunch (about 6) terminal windows open around it. The important
thing is to keep enough of a window visible that I can bring it forward easily.

That said, I work at 1920x1200 so this may not be as effective on lower
resolutions. I have had organization problems on my Thinkpad @ 1024x768.


John

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[Steve Simon]

> I've quit using p9p rio... to use multiple desktops well, you need a scroll
> wheel, but using a scroll wheel for midclick is terrible. Now, I use a real
> 3 button mouse and stumpwm on Linux.

this _might_ appeal, but it might not.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-ThinkPlus-Optical-3-Button-ScrollPoint/dp/B00007DTC6

-Steve

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[john]

>> I've quit using p9p rio... to use multiple desktops well, you need a scroll
>> wheel, but using a scroll wheel for midclick is terrible. Now, I use a real
>> 3 button mouse and stumpwm on Linux.
>
> this _might_ appeal, but it might not.
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-ThinkPlus-Optical-3-Button-ScrollPoint/dp/B00007DTC6
>
> -Steve

We have some Lenovo 3-button/scrollpoint type mice here... the problem is that
since the scroller isn't really a wheel, more of a nub you push, it's difficult
to move only one desktop; as with the Mighty Mouse, it tends to skip through
several desktops.
I'm sticking to my Logitech 3-button PS/2 mouse for now; that's the mouse I
always suggest to new Plan 9 users. I have about 5 of them.

John

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[Axel Belinfante]

> > I've quit using p9p rio... to use multiple desktops well, you need a scroll
> > wheel, but using a scroll wheel for midclick is terrible. Now, I use a real
> > 3 button mouse and stumpwm on Linux.
>
> this _might_ appeal, but it might not.
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-ThinkPlus-Optical-3-Button-ScrollPoint/dp/B00007DTC6

I'm using the 31P7405 that matches picture (expect for brand name :-) of
(found a few unexpectedly inexpensive on ebay)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-ThinkPlus-Optical-3-Button-ScrollPoint/dp/B00009VFIV/


before that one I've been using three button mice for years.
the middle button of the scrollpoint mouse is much farther away than
on the mice I used before, so occasionally I hit the scrollpoint
(blue thingy) while clicking the middle button.
neverthless, I never expected I would like the scroll point so much.


regarding p9p rio - some years ago I tried hacking it to
keep transient windows on top of their main windows
(by suggestion from Russ) but I messed up the code,
my changes were too complex, and it would occasionally break.
I thought that I should first read the icccm documents
and retry, but of course never got to it.
since then I started using osx and acme-sac instead of p9p,
so chances are slim I'll return to hacking p9p rio...


Axel.

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[Eris Discordia]

On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 17:22:46 -0000, <lejatorn@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> to cut it short: how do you guys do it?
>
> Since I am not to the point where I run almost everything in the same
> acme window, I need quite a few windows when I'm on p9 or in rio from
> p9p. And I am having trouble finding and raising to focus the one I need
> when there are more than, say, five of them on a res of 1280x800.
>
> Sqweek pointed me to winwatch which seems rather neat, but there is no
> such thing in p9p as far as I know, and no keyboard shortcut to cycle
> through the various windows (except in cinap's hacked rio ;) ).
> So I assume there must be a way to work efficiently through the
> windows and I'm curious to know what are everyone habits and tricks for
> that.
>
> Thanks,
> Mathieu.
>

I have had similar questions about ways to streamline my Plan 9 experience
since like... a week ago (that is when I began using it).

Plan 9 interfaces I have seen (rio itself, the window to rc, acme) are too
mousy, and I used to (and still do) curse Windows (and adore *BSD) for
just that reason. The line editor, ed, on the other hand makes good use of
the keyboard, but I really preferred the vi (vim, actually) way; I know,
vi was originally built around ed.

Here are (some of) my questions:

Is there some way (other than messing with the code)...

1. to change the focus except by mouse?
2. to change acme's chording behavior?
3. to change acme's focus model from point-to-type to click-to-type?
4. to recall commands typed in an rc session without resorting to the
middle mouse button (snarf+paste)?
5. to make rc auto-scroll for programs that output many pages of text, e.
g. a du on a deep directory tree, and to not block them after a single
page?
6. to make rc auto-complete with the [tab] key, instead of the [ins] key?
7. to make rc auto-complete commands and not only file/directory names?
8. to make the [del] key delete the character at the caret as it does in
many other environments?
9. to search a manual page while reading it, and not by piping it through
grep?

Are there...

1. any (configurable or otherwise) keyboard shortcuts in acme/rio?
2. alternatives to mouse navigation and, particularly, text selection in
acme?
3. ways to quit acid without deleting its window or hitting [ctrl]+[d]
twice, which ends up deleting the window and all the scrollback buffer
with it (I could not find a quit() function in the manual page)?

Notes on the Plan 9 way of interfacing (the user side of it, of course)
are also welcome. Perhaps there are better/faster ways to do things that I
am not aware of.

Thanks for your taking the time to read through.

--
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Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[Martin Neubauer]

* Eris Discordia (eris.discordia@gmail.com) wrote:
> I have had similar questions about ways to streamline my Plan 9 experience
> since like... a week ago (that is when I began using it).
>
> Plan 9 interfaces I have seen (rio itself, the window to rc, acme) are too
> mousy, and I used to (and still do) curse Windows (and adore *BSD) for
> just that reason. The line editor, ed, on the other hand makes good use of
> the keyboard, but I really preferred the vi (vim, actually) way; I know,
> vi was originally built around ed.

Well, the general attitude around here is that mouse interfaces aren't
necessarily bad (and the Plan 9 ones are particularly effeicient once you
get a grip on them). Also, the main applications (rio, acme, sam...) not
configurable except by hacking the code is a design feature to encourage
consistent behaviour across sites. That way I can sit down at about any Plan
9 machine and don't have to guess how the environment behaves.

I'll still tackle a few of you specific questions:

> 1. to change the focus except by mouse?
> 2. to change acme's chording behavior?
See above; chording is especially carefully crafted. It's probably more
gratifying in  the long run to just learn the standard chording methods.

> 3. to change acme's focus model from point-to-type to click-to-type?
That's a tricky one. It would certainly be possible to change the focus
behaviour, but that would cripple acme to a more conventional user
interface. One of the things that make working with acme so pleasant is the
fact that you don't have to click too much. Also, it could lead to
inconsistencies (for example right click on a file name to open it: should
the focus move to the new editing window because you'll likely want to edit
the file content or should it stay on the drectory view (or whereever you
have been) because you clicked there?) This might be a trivial case that
could be easily decided on, but you'd inadvertently get less obvious corner
cases.

> 4. to recall commands typed in an rc session without resorting to the
> middle mouse button (snarf+paste)?
Erik Quanstrom(?) has a modified rc with basic readline behaviour in his
contrib directory.

> 5. to make rc auto-scroll for programs that output many pages of text, e.
> g. a du on a deep directory tree, and to not block them after a single
> page?
Rc doesn't block (cf. p(1) ); rio windows do, though. Rio(1) explains how
you can handle this (and more).

> 6. to make rc auto-complete with the [tab] key, instead of the [ins] key?
> 7. to make rc auto-complete commands and not only file/directory names?
That, too, is a feature of rio, not rc. The effect is that auto-completion
isn't restricted to the shell, but there really isn't a sensible way to
decide whether to complete file names or commands. And it's actually quite
convenient to be able to juste type tab characters. You can use ctrl+f,
though.

> 8. to make the [del] key delete the character at the caret as it does in
> many other environments?
Del actually is the traditional interrupt key. I think Berkeley changed it
to ctrl+c, but in the Plan 9 lineage leading back to 1st ed Unix it's been
del all the time. Plus, you already have bs, and I'd conjecture that you are
mor likely to delete what you have already typed than what you are going to
type.

> 9. to search a manual page while reading it, and not by piping it through
> grep?
You could just open the man page in acme. The usual search options are
available then. Plus, you can then open related man pages with a single
click.

Hope I could help a bit,
	Martin

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[Anthony Sorace]

On Feb 8, 2008 4:47 AM, Eris Discordia <eris.discordia@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have had similar questions about ways to streamline my Plan 9 experience
> since like... a week ago (that is when I began using it).

For starters, I'd suggest that if you've been using it for a week,
you've not been using it long enough to properly internalize the
interface. It's designed to become transparent - to be used without
thinking about it - but that takes a little bit of time. Once you're
there, however, you'll likely be faster than with other interfaces.

That being said, there are answers to some of these questions which
may keep you happy. :-)

> 1. to change the focus except by mouse?

Probably not in the way you're thinking of, but yes. Rio exports a
file system interface which permits manipulation of windows. This is
useful for programatically changing the focus, but there isn't a set
of key bindings, which may be what you're thinking of.

> 2. to change acme's chording behavior?

No. But what would you like to change about it?

> 3. to change acme's focus model from point-to-type to click-to-type?

-b, the bartflag. Undocumented and, last i heard officially,
experimental. It worked well for me for the week or so i tried it.

> 4. to recall commands typed in an rc session without resorting to the
> middle mouse button (snarf+paste)?

I believe the scripts " and "" (good luck googling for that!) in
/n/sources/contrib/rsc may do what you want. Note how they do what
they do without adding any stupid terminal awareness to rc, or
shell-specific functionality to rio.

> 5. to make rc auto-scroll for programs that output many pages of text, e.
> g. a du on a deep directory tree, and to not block them after a single
> page?

rc does not scroll; rio scrolls. Read rio's man page.

> 6. to make rc auto-complete with the [tab] key, instead of the [ins] key?

I don't believe so, thank god. Having to fight to get a friggin' tab
when i want one is probably the "feature" of some modern unixes that
irritates me most (not counting lacking features like private
namespaces).

> 7. to make rc auto-complete commands and not only file/directory names?
> 8. to make the [del] key delete the character at the caret as it does in
> many other environments?

Not without mucking with the code.

> 9. to search a manual page while reading it, and not by piping it through
> grep?

Not in rio. What you're looking for is called "look"; i believe
there's been patches historically, and certainly enough people have
looked for it. I've taken to reading man pages in acme, where that's
easy, unless i'm just looking for a particular invocation.

> 1. any (configurable or otherwise) keyboard shortcuts in acme/rio?

No. Again, live with it for a bit. If you're still not convinced, google smacme.

> 2. alternatives to mouse navigation and, particularly, text selection in
> acme?

Again, acme exports a namespace which provides much of this
functionality, but there aren't a set of key bindings. The system is
designed to be used with a mouse.

> 3. ways to quit acid without deleting its window or hitting [ctrl]+[d]
> twice, which ends up deleting the window and all the scrollback buffer
> with it (I could not find a quit() function in the manual page)?

I'm not certain what your issue here is, but a single ^D is enough to
quit acid for me, and it doesn't kill the background.

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[Federico G. Benavento]

> I have had similar questions about ways to streamline my Plan 9 experience
> since like... a week ago (that is when I began using it).
>
> Plan 9 interfaces I have seen (rio itself, the window to rc, acme) are too
> mousy, and I used to (and still do) curse Windows (and adore *BSD) for
> just that reason. The line editor, ed, on the other hand makes good use of
> the keyboard, but I really preferred the vi (vim, actually) way; I know,
> vi was originally built around ed.
>
we live in the 21th century

> Here are (some of) my questions:
>
> Is there some way (other than messing with the code)...
>

> 1. to change the focus except by mouse?
> 2. to change acme's chording behavior?
> 3. to change acme's focus model from point-to-type to click-to-type?

1, 2, 3: change the code

> 4. to recall commands typed in an rc session without resorting to the
> middle mouse button (snarf+paste)?

russ has to useful scripts " and "" one prints the last comand the other
executes it. what they do is grepping /dev/text

> 5. to make rc auto-scroll for programs that output many pages of text, e.
> g. a du on a deep directory tree, and to not block them after a single
> page?

middle click, "scroll"

> 6. to make rc auto-complete with the [tab] key, instead of the [ins] key?

why would you want that, get use to the system, this is a new world
don't go to Laos and expect everyone speak english.

> 7. to make rc auto-complete commands and not only file/directory names?

different OS & paradigm == different behavior

> 8. to make the [del] key delete the character at the caret as it does in
> many other environments?

<del> in rio interrupts the program being run

> 9. to search a manual page while reading it, and not by piping it through
> grep?
>

read man pages in acme and just use Look or right click in the word you
want to search

> Are there...
>
> 1. any (configurable or otherwise) keyboard shortcuts in acme/rio?

no

> 2. alternatives to mouse navigation and, particularly, text selection in
> acme?

no

> 3. ways to quit acid without deleting its window or hitting [ctrl]+[d]
> twice, which ends up deleting the window and all the scrollback buffer
> with it (I could not find a quit() function in the manual page)?
>
read its man page

> Notes on the Plan 9 way of interfacing (the user side of it, of course)
> are also welcome. Perhaps there are better/faster ways to do things that I
> am not aware of.


use the system, it's not supposed to feel like "home", it's a
different environment,
hence it has a different behavior. so try to be a bit open minded here

--
Federico G. Benavento

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[Anthony Sorace]

On Feb 8, 2008 6:58 AM, Federico G. Benavento <benavento@gmail.com> wrote:

> why would you want that, get use to the system, this is a new world
> don't go to Laos and expect everyone speak english.

i read that as "don't go to the Labs and expect everyone speak
english". i guess that could well be true, especially in some parts of
the Labs:
	http://www.bell-labs.com/org/bl-india/
I'm glad they replaced the old picture with the fallen-down street
sign out front.

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[erik quanstrom]

>> 4. to recall commands typed in an rc session without resorting to the
>> middle mouse button (snarf+paste)?
>
> russ has to useful scripts " and "" one prints the last comand the other
> executes it. what they do is grepping /dev/text
>
>> 5. to make rc auto-scroll for programs that output many pages of text, e.
>> g. a du on a deep directory tree, and to not block them after a single
>> page?
>
> middle click, "scroll"

one important difference that may be missed here is that unlike
linux, the shell is not responsible for either of these behaviors.
rio and acme are the two programs that link against libcomplete
thus, when running on the console, there is no completion
available.

there is a version of rc with research unix-style history.
/n/sources/contrib/quanstro/futharc.tgz.  it works by saving
parsed commands to a file designated by $history.  the
program history.c can be compiled as - and -p so that
"-p x" would print the last command x executed in any
window; "- x" would repeat that command.  "grep x $history"
would search history.

> 7. to make rc auto-complete commands and not only file/directory names?
>
> different OS & paradigm == different behavior

again, rc isn't doing the completion.  rio/acme don't
know what the commands might be.

this is why tab is not the completion key.  it would be
inconvient to be disallowed typing tab in any program
(save sam).

- erik

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[Eris Discordia]

Thanks for the replies. Seems like there is a lot to learn about the Plan
9 user interface before I can go on to more "serious" things.

By the way, I always thought computer science/engineering experts, a group
I am not a member of, would rather have half a keyboard than two mice ;-)

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[erik quanstrom]

> By the way, I always thought computer science/engineering experts, a group
> I am not a member of, would rather have half a keyboard than two mice ;-)

i believe that's an accurate description of the first mouse.  the left hand
mouse had enough buttons to type.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_mouse#Early_mice

- erik

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[roger peppe]

On Feb 8, 2008 1:22 PM, Eris Discordia <eris.discordia@gmail.com> wrote:
> By the way, I always thought computer science/engineering experts, a group
> I am not a member of, would rather have half a keyboard than two mice ;-)

that's only because most such people have never encountered a decent mouse-based
interface, i believe.

mind you, acme's much better than rio in that respect. i always lose windows
in rio, and i haven't seen a decent solution yet.

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[Michael Andronov]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 916 bytes --]

Let us assume, that I am looking into some text information in ACME ( text
file, of xml file, etc.).

Is it a way to display line numbers along the text?
Is it a way to figure out particular line number?

(It may be useful during discussion on  the context of the file, for
example).

Thank for the attention to this question.
Michael.


On Feb 8, 2008 8:34 AM, roger peppe <rogpeppe@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 8, 2008 1:22 PM, Eris Discordia <eris.discordia@gmail.com> wrote:
> > By the way, I always thought computer science/engineering experts, a
> group
> > I am not a member of, would rather have half a keyboard than two mice
> ;-)
>
> that's only because most such people have never encountered a decent
> mouse-based
> interface, i believe.
>
> mind you, acme's much better than rio in that respect. i always lose
> windows
> in rio, and i haven't seen a decent solution yet.
>

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Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[roger peppe]

On Feb 8, 2008 2:26 PM, Michael Andronov <michael_andronov@sd-kyber.com> wrote:
> Is it a way to display line numbers along the text?

  Edit ,>grep -n '^'

or perhaps:

  Edit ,|grep -n '^'
and later:
  Edit ,x/^[0-9]+: /d

> Is it a way to figure out particular line number?

Edit =

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[john]

benavento@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> 5. to make rc auto-scroll for programs that output many pages of text, e.
>> g. a du on a deep directory tree, and to not block them after a single
>> page?
>
> middle click, "scroll"

Or, if you really want, start rio with the -s option; you can modify your
lib/profile to do that.

>
>> 6. to make rc auto-complete with the [tab] key, instead of the [ins] key?
>
> why would you want that, get use to the system, this is a new world
> don't go to Laos and expect everyone speak english.

All "please god must every newbie ask these same questions" hostility aside,
when you consider that Plan 9 rebinds Caps Lock to be Control, typing
^F for completion is actually pretty handy.

>> Are there...
>>
>> 1. any (configurable or otherwise) keyboard shortcuts in acme/rio?
>
> no

Actually, it has ^A and ^E to go to the start and the end of the current
line, respectively. The reason for 'smacme' is that Ron got annoyed without
keyboard shortcuts, saw that there were already the (undocumented?) ^E and
^A commands, and went ahead and added some more bits.


>> 3. ways to quit acid without deleting its window or hitting [ctrl]+[d]
>> twice, which ends up deleting the window and all the scrollback buffer
>> with it (I could not find a quit() function in the manual page)?
>>
> read its man page
>

Yes, the man page is always a good idea. Also... you only have to hit ^D
once. If you've been running a program within acme, it will then print
out a command you can send to rc to kill that program.


John

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[Uriel]

> 4. to recall commands typed in an rc session without resorting to the
> middle mouse button (snarf+paste)?

Aside from " and "" others have mentioned (which are *really useful*),
note that snarf+paste is the wrong idiom for this anyway, double click
at start/end of line + send (which if the last action was a 'send'
becomes a single click) is usually much better. Inside acme's win it
is even easier. And also, it is rare to Snarf with a menu when you can
mouse chord instead.

uriel

> 5. to make rc auto-scroll for programs that output many pages of text, e.
> g. a du on a deep directory tree, and to not block them after a single
> page?
> 6. to make rc auto-complete with the [tab] key, instead of the [ins] key?
> 7. to make rc auto-complete commands and not only file/directory names?
> 8. to make the [del] key delete the character at the caret as it does in
> many other environments?
> 9. to search a manual page while reading it, and not by piping it through
> grep?
>
> Are there...
>
> 1. any (configurable or otherwise) keyboard shortcuts in acme/rio?
> 2. alternatives to mouse navigation and, particularly, text selection in
> acme?
> 3. ways to quit acid without deleting its window or hitting [ctrl]+[d]
> twice, which ends up deleting the window and all the scrollback buffer
> with it (I could not find a quit() function in the manual page)?
>
> Notes on the Plan 9 way of interfacing (the user side of it, of course)
> are also welcome. Perhaps there are better/faster ways to do things that I
> am not aware of.
>
> Thanks for your taking the time to read through.
>
> --
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[Russ Cox]

> I am looking into some text information in ACME
> Is it a way to display line numbers along the text?

no, but you can hop to a line number by typing :123 in the
tag and then right-clicking on it.

> Is it a way to figure out particular line number?

type 'Edit =' in the tag and then middle click it (no quotes).

russ

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[Russ Cox]

> Since I am not to the point where I run almost everything in the same
> acme window, I need quite a few windows when I'm on p9 or in rio from
> p9p. And I am having trouble finding and raising to focus the one I need
> when there are more than, say, five of them on a res of 1280x800.

i tend to keep everything in acme, with other windows
peeking out from behind.  i can usually arrange that
the windows i care about don't fully cover each other.

what i'd really like is some kind of expose thing.
i have also tried, at times, grabbing a control key
(like control-tab) to cycle the windows, but i've never
gotten it working satisfactorily (x causes all sorts of headache).
F11 has been working well for me.

in short i don't think there is a good solution yet.

russ

Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[Mathieu L.]

Hi all,

Another rio usage question:

I find it quite a tedious operation to point at the corner of a window
with the cursor so that I can resize/move it, especially on the laptop
when I'm stuck without a mouse.
I like the feature in wmii where one can hold meta key + button 1/3 to
resize/move a window, which works with a click pretty much anywhere on
the window.

So, is there such a key in rio, or a way to obtain a similar behaviour?
Or does anyone have a smarter way to resize windows?

Thanks,
Mathieu.

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Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[Christian Kellermann]

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* Mathieu L. <lejatorn@gmail.com> [080221 10:31]:
> Hi all,
> 
> Another rio usage question:
> 
> I find it quite a tedious operation to point at the corner of a window
> with the cursor so that I can resize/move it, especially on the laptop
> when I'm stuck without a mouse. 
> I like the feature in wmii where one can hold meta key + button 1/3 to
> resize/move a window, which works with a click pretty much anywhere on
> the window.
> 
> So, is there such a key in rio, or a way to obtain a similar behaviour?
> Or does anyone have a smarter way to resize windows?

If you use the resize entry in the rio menu, you can just draw the
new size of the window. No need to grab the edge at all...

Kind regards,

Christian

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Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[lejatorn]

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:24:05AM +0100, Christian Kellermann wrote:
> * Mathieu L. <lejatorn@gmail.com> [080221 10:31]:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Another rio usage question:
> >
> > I find it quite a tedious operation to point at the corner of a window
> > with the cursor so that I can resize/move it, especially on the laptop
> > when I'm stuck without a mouse.
> > I like the feature in wmii where one can hold meta key + button 1/3 to
> > resize/move a window, which works with a click pretty much anywhere on
> > the window.
> >
> > So, is there such a key in rio, or a way to obtain a similar behaviour?
> > Or does anyone have a smarter way to resize windows?
>
> If you use the resize entry in the rio menu, you can just draw the
> new size of the window. No need to grab the edge at all...

Damn. So simple. I should have just opened my eyes.
thx, and sorry for the noise.

Mathieu.

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Re: [9fans] managing windows in rio

[ron minnich]

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Mathieu L. <lejatorn@gmail.com> wrote:

>  I find it quite a tedious operation to point at the corner of a window
>  with the cursor so that I can resize/move it, especially on the laptop
>  when I'm stuck without a mouse.
>  I like the feature in wmii where one can hold meta key + button 1/3 to
>  resize/move a window, which works with a click pretty much anywhere on
>  the window.

try out reshape. It's a lifesaver.

Also, you have lots of interesting ideas. Hack on the code! Have fun!
Seriously.


rio is *tiny*. Go ahead and make changes to it. It's fun! And you
might get people to like your changes.

After all, smacme has, oh, 1.25 users at this point :-)

ron