[9fans] plan9.bell-labs.com down

[9fans] plan9.bell-labs.com down

[Adriano Verardo]

Maintenance ?

adriano

Re: [9fans] plan9.bell-labs.com down

[Balwinder S Dheeman]

On 07/16/2009 10:15 PM, Adriano Verardo wrote:
> Maintenance ?

Don't you think that a channel #plan9 on irc.freenode.net could have
been better alternative to ask and, or report such things.

--
Balwinder S "bdheeman" Dheeman        Registered Linux User: #229709
Anu'z Linux@HOME (Unix Shoppe)        Machines: #168573, 170593, 259192
Chandigarh, UT, 160062, India         Plan9, T2, Arch/Debian/FreeBSD/XP
Home: http://werc.homelinux.net/      Visit: http://counter.li.org/

Re: [9fans] plan9.bell-labs.com down

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:38:32 +0200
Adriano Verardo <a.verardo@tecmav.com> wrote:

> Maintenance ?
>
> adriano
>

No, just the normal pattern of behaviour for that site. :/


--
Ethan Grammatikidis

Those who are slower at parsing information must
necessarily be faster at problem-solving.

Re: [9fans] plan9.bell-labs.com down

[hiro]

Some people don't use irc.
It's working here.

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Balwinder S
Dheeman<bsd.SANSPAM@cto.homelinux.net> wrote:
> On 07/16/2009 10:15 PM, Adriano Verardo wrote:
>> Maintenance ?
>
> Don't you think that a channel #plan9 on irc.freenode.net could have
> been better alternative to ask and, or report such things.
>
> --
> Balwinder S "bdheeman" Dheeman        Registered Linux User: #229709
> Anu'z Linux@HOME (Unix Shoppe)        Machines: #168573, 170593, 259192
> Chandigarh, UT, 160062, India         Plan9, T2, Arch/Debian/FreeBSD/XP
> Home: http://werc.homelinux.net/      Visit: http://counter.li.org/
>
>

Re: [9fans] plan9.bell-labs.com down

[Anthony Sorace]

a few things:

1) note that when the web site is down, sources may still be up
(someone in IRC made this mistake). i run an automated availability
check of sources every 10 minutes and didn't see an outage.

2) Ethan, i'm not sure if you realize it or not, but your comment is
entirely unhelpful and serves only to foster animosity all around.
please stop.

3) nobody involved with running plan9.bell-labs.com spends any time on
#plan9, so "reporting" it there is ineffective and serves only to fuel
some of the less stable elements there. afaik, the correct reporting
method is a *polite* mail to either this list (Adriano's original mail
seemed fine), 9trouble@plan9, or webmaster@plan9 (the address given at
the bottom of the page).

anthony

Re: [9fans] plan9.bell-labs.com down

[J.R. Mauro]

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Anthony Sorace<anothy@gmail.com> wrote:
> a few things:
>
> 1) note that when the web site is down, sources may still be up
> (someone in IRC made this mistake). i run an automated availability
> check of sources every 10 minutes and didn't see an outage.
>
> 2) Ethan, i'm not sure if you realize it or not, but your comment is
> entirely unhelpful and serves only to foster animosity all around.
> please stop.

Seriously, we're lucky to have sources /at all/. Instead of
complaining, maybe the most concerned people should volunteer their
time to help maintain sources, or put up mirrors of their own.

>
> 3) nobody involved with running plan9.bell-labs.com spends any time on
> #plan9, so "reporting" it there is ineffective and serves only to fuel
> some of the less stable elements there. afaik, the correct reporting
> method is a *polite* mail to either this list (Adriano's original mail
> seemed fine), 9trouble@plan9, or webmaster@plan9 (the address given at
> the bottom of the page).
>
> anthony
>
>

Re: [9fans] plan9.bell-labs.com down

[ron minnich]

apropos of this, 9grid.net is back.

Thanks to the guys at LBL for hosting this machine.

ron

Re: [9fans] plan9.bell-labs.com down

[Uriel]

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Anthony Sorace<anothy@gmail.com> wrote:
> a few things:
>
> 1) note that when the web site is down, sources may still be up
> (someone in IRC made this mistake). i run an automated availability
> check of sources every 10 minutes and didn't see an outage.

If you are thirsty in the middle of the desert, you might find this
comfortable pillow useful.

If people are trying to access the web site, sources being up is not
likely to be of much help to them.

> 2) Ethan, i'm not sure if you realize it or not, but your comment is
> entirely unhelpful and serves only to foster animosity all around.
> please stop.

God forbid anyone comment on the Emperor's conspicuous lack of garments.

>
> 3) nobody involved with running plan9.bell-labs.com spends any time on
> #plan9, so "reporting" it there is ineffective and serves only to fuel
> some of the less stable elements there. afaik, the correct reporting
> method is a *polite* mail to either this list (Adriano's original mail
> seemed fine), 9trouble@plan9, or webmaster@plan9 (the address given at
> the bottom of the page).

This address is a bit difficult to find when the page itself is made
of Unobtainium.

uriel

Re: [9fans] plan9.bell-labs.com down

[Uriel]

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:08 PM, J.R. Mauro<jrm8005@gmail.com> wrote:
> Seriously, we're lucky to have sources /at all/. Instead of
> complaining, maybe the most concerned people should volunteer their
> time to help maintain sources, or put up mirrors of their own.

Seriously, but I can't let this nonsense go unanswered once again.

We'd be even luckier if people like you would stop spewing such
obvious bullshit. We are not lucky to have an insanely unreliable
sources / website that simply discredits the project and confuses and
misleads prospective users and developers.

And stop the totally false condescending 'you should volunteer to
contribute' nonsense, because *many* people have offered their help,
and help is not welcome, so before repeating such crap, maybe you
could bother to at least point out how people are supposedly even able
to help.

There is a reason people have setup mirrors of various parts of the
site and sources ( http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/
http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/ http://9grid.es/index.html?item=mir and
many others) because they tried to help, and gave up and simply setup
their own thing (in some cases after years of exasperation and false
hopes that the situation would improve).

So, can we please move on, forget about plan9.bell-labs.com, and
simply pretend it doesn't exist? It will save people much wasted time,
frustrations and misunderstandings, and it will improve my health
considerably (but I suspect a few people would not mind if my health
got rid my annoying comments, some Lisp-heads have been celebrating
the demise of Erik Naggum...).

Thanks

uriel

Re: [9fans] plan9.bell-labs.com down

[John Floren]

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> And stop the totally false condescending 'you should volunteer to
> contribute' nonsense, because *many* people have offered their help,
> and help is not welcome, so before repeating such crap, maybe you
> could bother to at least point out how people are supposedly even able
> to help.

I seem to remember that you were offered the opportunity to take over
sources, since you can obviously run it much better. What happened to
that? I guess it's easier to bitch and be the rebel, rather than
becoming "the man" and actually being responsible for the proper
maintenance of the system.



John
--
"I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS
reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C,
Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba

Re: [9fans] plan9.bell-labs.com down

[David Leimbach]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 993 bytes --]

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 2:08 PM, J.R. Mauro <jrm8005@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Anthony Sorace<anothy@gmail.com> wrote:
> > a few things:
> >
> > 1) note that when the web site is down, sources may still be up
> > (someone in IRC made this mistake). i run an automated availability
> > check of sources every 10 minutes and didn't see an outage.
> >
> > 2) Ethan, i'm not sure if you realize it or not, but your comment is
> > entirely unhelpful and serves only to foster animosity all around.
> > please stop.
>
> Seriously, we're lucky to have sources /at all/. Instead of
> complaining, maybe the most concerned people should volunteer their
> time to help maintain sources, or put up mirrors of their own.


I for one am quite grateful for the sources machine.

My guess is if we didn't have it, we'd have to create a grid based
"contrib", and we'd probably have to have some kind of 9grid based registry
to find everyone's contributions.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1458 bytes --]

Re: [9fans] plan9.bell-labs.com down

[Uriel]

On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 12:55 AM, John Floren<slawmaster@gmail.com> wrote:
> I seem to remember that you were offered the opportunity to take over
> sources, since you can obviously run it much better.

What? When? Where?


> What happened to that?

Maybe you can tell me, as you seem to know much better than me what
has been offered (and by who?!?!).


> I guess it's easier to bitch and be the rebel, rather than
> becoming "the man" and actually being responsible for the proper
> maintenance of the system.

I take responsibility for the systems I have control over, which so
far nobody has had any complaints about (if somebody has any
complaints or suggestions, I would *love* to hear them and will do my
very best to address them), and I have put a considerable amount of
effort on, specially given that nobody has ever paid me anything to
work on Plan 9 or anything related to it, and I don't go around
screaming about how grateful and lucky the universe is that I'm
capable of running a damned stupid web server.

I very doubt I'm the right person to take care of plan9.bell-labs.com,
and doubt much more whatever whoever controls it would want me to take
it over, but if your claims by some cosmic miracle happen to be true,
I'd be happy to help out in any way I can.

Maybe you can tell us what *you* have done to help Plan 9? Or is your
greatest contribution to act all obnoxious and condescending towards
people that despite their limited and flawed abilities have tried very
hard to do their best to make Plan 9 and related technologies
successful and keep them from dying in total irrelevancy? One of my
many flaws is that my memory is very bad, so maybe I'm forgetting what
you have done...

uriel

Re: [9fans] plan9.bell-labs.com down

[Uriel]

On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 1:23 AM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
> Maybe you can tell us what *you* have done to help Plan 9? Or is your
> greatest contribution to act all obnoxious and condescending towards
> people that despite their limited and flawed abilities have tried very
> hard to do their best to make Plan 9 and related technologies
> successful and keep them from dying in total irrelevancy? One of my
> many flaws is that my memory is very bad, so maybe I'm forgetting what
> you have done...
>
> uriel

Disregard this, my memory does totally suck, and I just have been
reminded by others of your considerable and respectable contributions,
forgive my unjustified obnoxious comment. And my apologies to 9fans
for this unwarranted attack.

uriel

Re: [9fans] plan9.bell-labs.com down

[Uriel]

On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 1:07 AM, David Leimbach<leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:
> I for one am quite grateful for the sources machine.
> My guess is if we didn't have it, we'd have to create a grid based
> "contrib", and we'd probably have to have some kind of 9grid based registry
> to find everyone's contributions.

I'm not sure how this would work out, perhaps something along the
lines of http://9gridchan.org

But in any case it would be an improvement over the current situation
where people that asks for a sources account spend months and months
twiddling their thumbs, thinking that for some horrible reason the
people that run sources hate them, and that it is pointless to try to
contribute to Plan 9 (various people have told me of their worries
that perhaps they were not 'qualified' to have a sources account and
that perhaps that was why their requests were being ignored, and I had
to explain to them that, hell, if I had a sources account, *anyone* no
matter how stupid or incompetent should be allowed to have one, not to
mean they were either stupid or incompetent, they were highly
qualified and motivated people that were interested in contributing
their work, and that were feeling directly shunned and unwelcome).

uriel

Re: [9fans] plan9.bell-labs.com down

[John Floren]

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 1:23 AM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
>> Maybe you can tell us what *you* have done to help Plan 9? Or is your
>> greatest contribution to act all obnoxious and condescending towards
>> people that despite their limited and flawed abilities have tried very
>> hard to do their best to make Plan 9 and related technologies
>> successful and keep them from dying in total irrelevancy? One of my
>> many flaws is that my memory is very bad, so maybe I'm forgetting what
>> you have done...
>>
>> uriel
>
> Disregard this, my memory does totally suck, and I just have been
> reminded by others of your considerable and respectable contributions,
> forgive my unjustified obnoxious comment. And my apologies to 9fans
> for this unwarranted attack.
>
> uriel
>

I appreciate this. In turn, I must acknowledge the nice work on werc,
which I've been meaning to take a shot at when I can get around to
installing Pegasus.


John
--
"I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS
reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C,
Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba

Re: [9fans] plan9.bell-labs.com down

[Uriel]

Werc is hardly a contribution worth mentioning (just a bunch of rc
script after all!), but some of us have put much blood, sweat and
tears in trying to make Plan 9 successful and save it from eternal
oblivion, and it is frustrating when people say 'you have no right to
complain', *everyone* has a right(even a duty!) to complain, and
complaints should be both welcome and heed if Plan 9 (or any project)
is to be successful.

Peace

uriel

P.S.: I got werc to work with a very simple 'magic' wrapper rc script
(I'm sure russ' cgi.c is a much better solution though, but wanted
something that would work with plain httpd out fo the box):

http://werc.cat-v.org/docs/web_server_setup/plan_9_httpd

On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 1:43 AM, John Floren<slawmaster@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 1:23 AM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [...]
>>> Maybe you can tell us what *you* have done to help Plan 9? Or is your
>>> greatest contribution to act all obnoxious and condescending towards
>>> people that despite their limited and flawed abilities have tried very
>>> hard to do their best to make Plan 9 and related technologies
>>> successful and keep them from dying in total irrelevancy? One of my
>>> many flaws is that my memory is very bad, so maybe I'm forgetting what
>>> you have done...
>>>
>>> uriel
>>
>> Disregard this, my memory does totally suck, and I just have been
>> reminded by others of your considerable and respectable contributions,
>> forgive my unjustified obnoxious comment. And my apologies to 9fans
>> for this unwarranted attack.
>>
>> uriel
>>
>
> I appreciate this. In turn, I must acknowledge the nice work on werc,
> which I've been meaning to take a shot at when I can get around to
> installing Pegasus.
>
>
> John
> --
> "I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS
> reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C,
> Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba
>
>