[9fans] What's missing?

[9fans] What's missing?

[baldwin]

> This just means we have to write more and more usable applications for plan9.

Yes.  Anothy, what are the apps you find a need to use on Unix?

As for me, the only one is Netscape (ugh).  Our latest Charon
on Inferno does a good enough job for most sites that Netscape
is actually my backup browser.  But it would be nice to not
have to use Netscape at all.  Even so, my Netscape is actually
running on a Solaris box far away; over DSL running VNC is just
fine; over dialup it gets the job done, with some impatience.

Re: [9fans] What's missing?

[David Rubin]

baldwin@vitanuova.com wrote:
>
> > This just means we have to write more and more usable applications for plan9.
>
> Yes.  Anothy, what are the apps you find a need to use on Unix?
>
> As for me, the only one is Netscape (ugh).  Our latest Charon
> on Inferno does a good enough job for most sites that Netscape
> is actually my backup browser.  But it would be nice to not
> have to use Netscape at all.  Even so, my Netscape is actually
> running on a Solaris box far away; over DSL running VNC is just
> fine; over dialup it gets the job done, with some impatience.

Has anyone looked at other browsers like opera? Konquerer, I think, is based on
Mozilla, so I guess it wouldn't be a good candidate for a porting, but maybe
there are some good non-Netscape browsers that can be ported easily.

But is it that difficult to add the missing functionality to Charon which makes
discussions about porting or supporting other browsers relevant?

	david

--
If 91 were prime, it would be a counterexample to your conjecture.
    -- Bruce Wheeler

[9fans] Browsers again - was What's missing?

[matt]

Hello David,

Tuesday, April 24, 2001, 4:07:49 PM, you wrote:

DR> Has anyone looked at other browsers like opera? Konquerer, I think, is based on
DR> Mozilla, so I guess it wouldn't be a good candidate for a porting, but maybe
DR> there are some good non-Netscape browsers that can be ported easily.

DR> But is it that difficult to add the missing functionality to Charon which makes
DR> discussions about porting or supporting other browsers relevant?

well there are a number of browsers that I know of (see below)
If it was that easy to write one, this list would be much longer.
If the world stopped at "HTML Renderer" life would be much easier.
Instead we have DynamicHTML, XHTML, CSS level2, SSL, java applets,
javascript support, Macromedia Flash, MathML, SVG & plugin support
(maybe).

If I was to take on the project (some chance! though I'd love it) i'd
start from Amaya. No frames but I think plan9's window model could
cope by opening each frame in a new canvas.

the plan9 model would need to be retrofitted (some sort of caching
proxy that gets mounted, a dom FS etc.)

Any you may know I like the look of XMLTerm http://xmlterm.com/
Despite it being on Mozilla

So here's the list I threw together. If only Lucent coudl throw
30 million dollars at it like MS did we'd be laughing.

matt


Amaya http://www.w3.org/amaya
"Amaya is a browser/authoring tool that allows you to publish
documents on the Web."
"HTML 4.01, XHTML 1.0, XHTML Basic, HTTP/1.1, MathML 2.0, many CSS 2
features, and limited SVG support. "
It's the w3 reference browser. Written in C and is built upon the w3
libwww code.
It's a nice browser but if the HTML isn't well formed it can barf.

Opera : www.opera.com
"Opera - the fastest browser on earth!"
not open source but who knows what Lucent can persuade!

Konqueror : www.konqueror.org
"Konqueror is the successor of kfm, the file manager and web browser
in KDE 1.x"
Not built on Mozilla I think but definately tied into KDE. It needs QT
and kdelib to compile.
Nice browser but a nightmare to port no doubt.

Gnome - www.gnome.org have a browser widget coming as part of the Gnome desktop. I'm
speculating but it'll be tied to Bonobo.

Dillo http://dillo.sourceforge.net/
gtk based browser
Requires: XFree86-3.3.6_8, gettext-0.10.35, glib-1.2.10, gmake-3.79.1, gtk-1.2.10,
jpeg-6b, png-1.0.10


Grail - http://grail.sourceforge.net/
"Grail is an extensible Internet browser written entirely in the
interpreted object-oriented programming language Python. "
"It requires recent versions of Python and Tcl/Tk to run."
"Grail supports full HTML 2.0, including images, forms and imagemaps,
and many HTML 3.2 features"

Sun's Hot Java (tm) browser
http://java.sun.com/products/hotjava/
"Key features and improvements of HotJava Browser 3.0 include:
JavaScript (Full ECMA 1.4 standard support)
HTML rendering fidelity improvements, adding support for critical Netscape 4.0
and Internet Explorer 4.0 extensions to the W3C HTML 3.2 specification
Improved user interface, adding a more "modern" look and feel to the browser
Over 500 bug fixes and user requested enhancements"

mMosiac http://perso.enst.fr/~dauphin/mMosaic/
"mMosaic is a derivative work of NCSA XMosaic 2.7b4. You can use it as
a simple browser. Now it supports <TABLE> and other supplementary tags (like <CENTER>).
One level of <FRAME> is supported"

Mosiac itself http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/SDG/Software/XMosaic/
Requires: XFree86-3.3.6_8, jpeg-6b, open-motif-2.1.30_1, png-1.0.10, xpm-3.4k




--
Best regards,
 matt                            mailto:matt@proweb.co.uk

Re: [9fans] What's missing?

[David Rubin]

Mike Acar wrote:

> > Has anyone looked at other browsers like opera?
[snip]
> Opera's not open source, so you'd have to talk Opera Software into porting it.

Yeah, I overlooked that. How smart of them...

	david

--
If 91 were prime, it would be a counterexample to your conjecture.
    -- Bruce Wheeler

Re: [9fans] What's missing?

[Michael Collins]

I said to myself the other night.  "p9 needs nothing.  any of the 
crutches i need are on a box i can get to.."

HardeHar.

thanks.

sorry for the bw waste, but i love it.

PLAN9/Bandwidth

baldwin@vitanuova.com wrote:

>> This just means we have to write more and more usable applications for plan9.
> 
> 
> Yes.  Anothy, what are the apps you find a need to use on Unix?
> 
> As for me, the only one is Netscape (ugh).  Our latest Charon
> on Inferno does a good enough job for most sites that Netscape
> is actually my backup browser.  But it would be nice to not
> have to use Netscape at all.  Even so, my Netscape is actually
> running on a Solaris box far away; over DSL running VNC is just
> fine; over dialup it gets the job done, with some impatience.


-- 
Michael H. Collins              http://www.linuxlink.com
Admiral                         Penguinista Navy International
This ain't California           http://www.geekaustin.org
Speech Enabled Chat             http://phphreaks.net/bxspeak/
         *Ask me about Plan 9*

Re: [9fans] What's missing?

[Boyd Roberts]

> My primary issue with Charon ...

Charon is a joke.  it's awk meets bitblit.

Re: [9fans] What's missing?

[David LeBleu]

My primary issue with Charon is that it appears to be unsupportive of XML or XHTML.  Otherwise, I have had few other concerns.  Of course, there is so much to learn/understand about the features and differences between plan9 and Inferno I can hardly complain . . 

:-)



David A. LeBleu, Systems Analyst
TNRCC, State of Texas
512.239.3140 (phone)
512.239.0888 (fax)
dlebleu@tnrcc.state.tx.us


>>> baldwin@vitanuova.com 04/23/01 12:11PM >>>
> This just means we have to write more and more usable applications for plan9.

Yes.  Anothy, what are the apps you find a need to use on Unix?

As for me, the only one is Netscape (ugh).  Our latest Charon
on Inferno does a good enough job for most sites that Netscape
is actually my backup browser.  But it would be nice to not
have to use Netscape at all.  Even so, my Netscape is actually
running on a Solaris box far away; over DSL running VNC is just
fine; over dialup it gets the job done, with some impatience.

Re: [9fans] What's missing?

[anothy]

//p9 needs nothing.  any of the  crutches i need
//are on a box i can get to..
	-and a bit later-
//PLAN9/Bandwidth

yeah, i'd agree. the trouble is i'm missing the "Bandwidth"
part of that formula, so i'm interested in making Plan 9
pick up as much of the slack as possible.
-α.

Re: [9fans] What's missing?

[rob pike]

I tried to engage the Opera people and got almost exactly nowhere.

-rob