Re: [9fans] the futility of #plan9 on irc

["Devon H. O'Dell" <dodell@offmyserver.com>]

Jack Johnson wrote:
> On 5/24/05, Dan Cross <cross@math.psu.edu> wrote:
> 
>>Because the data isn't accumulated over time, the damage
>>done by the bad data remains done.  The correction is never applied.
> 
> 
> So, this begs the question, do people using IRC understand this?  If
> so, then the newbie swears, tries again with a new crowd, or tries
> 9fans and waits.  If not, then they assume the software is broken or
> that it will not do what it asks and they give up.

No, they do not. When I first started in there, I was given absolute 
hell and did not understand what everyone's problem was. I've come to 
appreciate that some of that attitude is qualified by being a Plan 9 
user/developer/enthusiast as I have taken some of the mental stances myself.

But I still notice that far too many people (potential developers 
included!) have been scared away by the overzealous ideals and twisted 
advocacy of some individuals.

This has caused me to `indefinitely' leave the channel. At least until I 
noticed it getting better. During this time, I started #Plan-9, which 
was pretty successful at getting people who really wanted to talk about 
Plan 9 to do so in a kind fashion. It still exists, though the 
conversation has moved en masse back to #Plan9.

Surprisingly, it did. I still notice some of the behaviors, but they are 
in general getting better. Unfortunately, I have not been around for the 
last set of quotes that sparked this thread. Normally, I check uriel on 
his statements.

> If I were really concerned about the quality of information on IRC, I
> would donate an hour a week to straightening out the locals or just
> roll an infobot that references the wiki and the mailing list archives
> and let the locals qualify the result with their own $0.02 (though
> possibly not USD).

There are a lot of great minds in #Plan9. Infrequently, I see Ron, 
Andrey and Russ. Other than that, there's usually Vester, Boyd, Steve 
Simon, Tim Newsham, Eric van Hensbergen and myself. I'm probably leaving 
lots of people out; this is simply to give people an idea.

In general, the discussion is good when I'm discussing, simply because 
interesting development / usage issues are being discussed. I tend to 
leave when it gets too hairy. Which is why it's oddly good discussion 
when I'm there ;). (Don't mean to glorify myself one bit).

> Otherwise, I would assume the visitors were looking for easy
> information and that they realize they might not walk away with
> answers.
> 
> -Jack

This is always something to watch out for on IRC, and unfortunately many 
IRC newbies do not understand this.

I'd say it's generally a good place. But you have to know who to watch 
for. Generally that's straightforward, but it can get messy sometimes.

In any case, I think this thread is somewhat moot. IRC is known for its 
crap; I think it just hits us hard because it's such a niche OS (at the 
moment, at least). The best thing to do (in my experience) is say `BS, 
<user>' and drop it. /ignore also works wonders for most clients.

I might petition Freenode to make a ##Plan9 channel per its ridiculous 
`this is not an official project channel' guidelines, but it might help 
users who are new to Freenode (who have read the page / MOTD) to 
understand that it's not an official channel.

Kind regards,

Devon H. O'Dell