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From: W B Hacker <wbh@conducive.org>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@cse.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [9fans] speaking of kenc
Date: Mon,  7 May 2007 12:29:54 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <463EAB42.5050504@conducive.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1178503045.12482.61.camel@linux.site>

Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-05-06 at 07:12 +0200, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote:
>>> assembler is there because it is needed. if you are writing or porting
>>> a compiler and you dont have an assembler you will end up writing one
>>> anyway.
>> Assembler is there because the designers _make_ it necessary. 
>  
>   I think I would agree with this point 100%. 
> 
> Thanks,
> Roman.
> 
> 

Designers work in binary gate-array state tables.

Not much choice until CPU go over to optical, and can *maybe* use UTF-8 directly 
as I/O in color frequency coding as well as simple on/off states.

Even then only at a hefty price.

Until then, asm's mnemonics are easier for humans to work with than octal, hex, 
or binary, and there isn't much to be done about that IF/AS/WHEN you absolutely, 
positively, *have to* get down to the lowest possible layer and find a 
binary-only animal at that layer.

Fortunately, that 'have to' is 'damn seldom' thanks to a wide variety of 
toolsets, and those who do it often are no more fussed about doing it than 
having a different brand of beer now and then.

Build a CPU that 'needs no assembler' and the first thing that happens is some 
contrarian will write one for it *anyway*. And/OR port forth to it.

And they will be used. But never 'forced'.

That because the second contrarian who arrives will port a 'C' compiler to it.

Any of these can be labelled ugly or inelegant - but they are the tools that get 
the job done faster than most other choices.

And time - wall clock, CPU, or hours of our lives - is not just money.

Time is the scarcest, and least 'renewable' resource any of us will ever have.

So we must adapt to what we have while we invent better machines.

When machines start to adapt to US, we should become very, very wary, 'coz they 
will have become smarter than we are, and they will also have become either 
certifiably insane to make the attempt or clever liars to fake it.

Can't trust either of those to keep a beer keg cold...

Choices, folks.  Choices!

Bill



  reply	other threads:[~2007-05-07  4:29 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 149+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-04-27  3:08 erik quanstrom
2007-04-27  3:44 ` David Leimbach
2007-04-27  4:56   ` Bruce Ellis
2007-04-27  6:21     ` Skip Tavakkolian
2007-04-27  4:54 ` Joel C. Salomon
2007-04-27  4:58   ` Bruce Ellis
2007-04-27 11:00   ` Charles Forsyth
2007-04-27 13:49     ` David Leimbach
2007-04-27 16:23       ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2007-04-29  2:02         ` erik quanstrom
2007-04-29  2:55           ` Tim Wiess
2007-04-29  6:42             ` Uriel
2007-04-29 20:47           ` Charles Forsyth
2007-04-30  8:29           ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2007-04-30 13:08             ` Uriel
2007-05-01  0:22             ` erik quanstrom
2007-05-01 14:45               ` Jon Snader
2007-05-01 14:56                 ` Devon H. O'Dell
2007-05-01 15:12                   ` erik quanstrom
2007-05-01 15:29                     ` Devon H. O'Dell
2007-05-01 21:32                   ` Jon Snader
2007-05-02  0:04                   ` Derek Fawcus
2007-05-02  8:44                     ` Charles Forsyth
2007-05-01 15:51                 ` Anthony Sorace
2007-05-02  8:32                   ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2007-05-02  9:00                     ` Steve Simon
2007-05-03  1:32                       ` David Arnold
2007-05-03  3:39                         ` Adrian Tritschler
2007-05-03  3:57                           ` Paul Lalonde
2007-05-03  4:11                             ` Federico Benavento
2007-05-03 13:34                               ` Anthony Sorace
2007-05-03 22:04                               ` LiteStar numnums
2007-05-04  1:45                               ` Roman Shaposhnick
2007-05-04  1:51                                 ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2007-05-04  2:00                                 ` erik quanstrom
2007-05-04  2:08                                   ` Roman Shaposhnick
2007-05-04  2:12                                     ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2007-05-04  2:20                                       ` Roman Shaposhnick
2007-05-04  2:35                                         ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2007-05-04  6:53                                           ` Bruce Ellis
2007-05-05  4:49                                             ` Roman Shaposhnick
2007-05-05  5:11                                           ` Roman Shaposhnick
2007-05-05  5:14                                             ` Bruce Ellis
2007-05-05 18:52                                               ` erik quanstrom
2007-05-05 19:13                                                 ` lucio
2007-05-05 23:09                                                   ` Bruce Ellis
2007-05-06  1:24                                                     ` Rogelio Serrano
2007-05-06  4:08                                                   ` erik quanstrom
2007-05-06  4:53                                                     ` W B Hacker
2007-05-06  5:01                                                     ` lucio
2007-05-06  5:01                                                     ` Rogelio Serrano
2007-05-06  5:07                                                       ` Rogelio Serrano
2007-05-06  5:15                                                         ` lucio
2007-05-06  5:37                                                           ` Bruce Ellis
2007-05-06  6:30                                                           ` Rogelio Serrano
2007-05-06  6:46                                                             ` lucio
2007-05-06  6:49                                                             ` lucio
2007-05-06  7:35                                                               ` Rogelio Serrano
2007-05-06  6:51                                                             ` W B Hacker
2007-05-06 10:25                                                               ` Rogelio Serrano
2007-05-06  6:04                                                         ` Skip Tavakkolian
2007-05-06  7:24                                                           ` lucio
2007-05-06 11:47                                                             ` Bruce Ellis
2007-05-07  1:55                                                           ` Roman Shaposhnik
2007-05-06  5:12                                                       ` lucio
2007-05-06 13:18                                                         ` Richard Miller
2007-05-06 20:23                                                           ` Roman Shaposhnik
2007-05-07  1:57                                                         ` Roman Shaposhnik
2007-05-07  4:29                                                           ` W B Hacker [this message]
2007-05-07 15:08                                                             ` Tim Wiess
2007-05-06  5:15                                                       ` W B Hacker
2007-05-06  7:43                                                         ` Rogelio Serrano
2007-05-06  8:02                                                           ` W B Hacker
2007-05-06  8:12                                                             ` Rogelio Serrano
2007-05-06  9:00                                                               ` W B Hacker
2007-05-06  8:03                                                           ` lucio
2007-05-06  8:42                                                             ` Rogelio Serrano
2007-05-06 10:20                                                               ` matt
2007-05-06 10:29                                                                 ` Rogelio Serrano
2007-05-06  9:09                                                             ` W B Hacker
2007-05-06  5:10                                                     ` W B Hacker
2007-05-06  5:32                                                       ` lucio
2007-05-06  6:18                                                         ` Rogelio Serrano
2007-05-06  6:30                                                           ` W B Hacker
2007-05-06  6:21                                                         ` W B Hacker
2007-05-07  1:47                                                     ` Roman Shaposhnik
2007-05-06  1:13                                               ` Rogelio Serrano
2007-05-06  3:31                                                 ` W B Hacker
2007-05-06  4:10                                                 ` erik quanstrom
2007-05-06  4:55                                                   ` Rogelio Serrano
2007-05-06  5:10                                                     ` lucio
2007-05-06  6:05                                                       ` W B Hacker
2007-05-06  8:45                                                         ` matt
2007-05-06  6:45                                                       ` Rogelio Serrano
2007-05-06  6:52                                                         ` lucio
2007-05-06  7:09                                                           ` W B Hacker
2007-05-06  7:34                                                             ` Rogelio Serrano
2007-05-06  7:49                                                               ` W B Hacker
2007-05-06  7:54                                                               ` lucio
2007-05-06  8:35                                                                 ` Rogelio Serrano
2007-05-06  7:40                                                             ` lucio
2007-05-06  8:59                                                               ` W B Hacker
2007-05-06  7:03                                                         ` W B Hacker
2007-05-06  5:21                                                 ` Bruce Ellis
2007-05-06  7:01                                                   ` Rogelio Serrano
2007-05-05  5:30                                             ` lucio
2007-05-04  2:16                                     ` erik quanstrom
2007-05-04  9:24                                       ` C H Forsyth
2007-05-04 11:18                                         ` erik quanstrom
2007-05-04 16:19                                         ` Paul Lalonde
2007-05-04 21:58                                           ` Dave Eckhardt
2007-05-04 22:27                                             ` Paul Lalonde
2007-05-04  8:46                                 ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2007-05-05  4:47                                   ` Roman Shaposhnick
2007-05-02  8:33                 ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2007-05-02 11:25                   ` Jon Snader
2007-05-02  8:33               ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2007-05-02 11:30                 ` erik quanstrom
2007-04-27 16:21     ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2007-04-27 11:12   ` Charles Forsyth
2007-04-27 11:46   ` erik quanstrom
2007-04-27 14:21     ` Joel C. Salomon
2007-04-27 14:26       ` erik quanstrom
2007-04-27 14:41         ` Rob Pike
2007-04-27 14:55         ` Joel C. Salomon
2007-04-27 15:24           ` erik quanstrom
2007-04-27 15:53           ` C H Forsyth
2007-04-28  9:09   ` ron minnich
2007-04-28  9:17     ` Lucio De Re
2007-04-28 13:48       ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2007-04-28 13:57         ` Lucio De Re
2007-04-28 14:15         ` LiteStar numnums
2007-04-28 21:21         ` Roman Shaposhnik
2007-04-28 21:54           ` ron minnich
2007-04-28 22:33             ` Steve Simon
2007-04-28 15:45     ` Charles Forsyth
2007-04-28 17:58       ` Rodrigo Miranda
2007-04-28 20:12         ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2007-04-28 21:10           ` Roman Shaposhnik
2007-04-28 18:15       ` Lluís Batlle i Rossell
2007-04-29  2:39       ` Joel C. Salomon
2007-04-29 12:41         ` erik quanstrom
2007-04-29 16:00           ` Joel C. Salomon
2007-04-28 21:24     ` Roman Shaposhnik
2007-05-06 12:36 erik quanstrom
2007-05-06 15:18 ` lucio
2007-05-06 16:23   ` W B Hacker
2007-05-06 17:53     ` Benn Newman
2007-05-06 17:56       ` Francisco J Ballesteros

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