Re: [9fans] spreding the word

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[erik quanstrom]

> the whole streams idea is really educational. nonet was neat. having
> datakit code in there made the network transparency feel a bit more
> real (different world, i know).

streams also exist in unix.  i find it very educational that
plan 9 does well without streams.

queue quote from the little prince.

it would be intersting to introduce an ip-peer protocol,
if only for educational purposes.  xns would be usable
on regular ethernet equipment.  unfortuantely there
are many things that need to get done more.

- erik

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[erik quanstrom]

this seems dated to me #w, #H and #b no longer
exist and the install is now quite different.

- erik

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[Robert Raschke]

It's got a whole chapter on alef, and the UI is still in B/W.
Definitly for an older edition of Plan 9.

'Tis a shame there's absolutley no attribution to be found. I wonder
who wrote the book? Seems to be quite readable.

Robby

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[michael block]

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 11:01, Robert Raschke <rtrlists@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 'Tis a shame there's absolutley no attribution to be found. I wonder
> who wrote the book? Seems to be quite readable.

pdfinfo sheds some light on the subject:

Title:          P9.pdf
Author:         Wellhoefer
Creator:        PScript5.dll Version 5.2
Producer:       Acrobat Distiller 5.0 (Windows)
CreationDate:   Mon Aug 21 20:32:06 2006
ModDate:        Mon Aug 21 20:32:06 2006
Tagged:         no
Pages:          237
Encrypted:      no
Page size:      595 x 842 pts (A4)
File size:      1279189 bytes
Optimized:      yes
PDF version:    1.3

googling "wellhoefer plan 9" found this on wikipedia:

German book about Plan 9: Hans-Peter Bischof, Gunter Imeyer, Bernhard
Wellhöfer (born as Kühl), Axel-Tobias Schreiner: Das
Netzbetriebssystem Plan 9. 1999, ISBN 3-446-18881-9. The book is out
of print, but available for free at the print-on-demand service
provider Lulu.com.

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[john]

> On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 11:01, Robert Raschke <rtrlists@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> 'Tis a shame there's absolutley no attribution to be found. I wonder
>> who wrote the book? Seems to be quite readable.
>
> pdfinfo sheds some light on the subject:
>
> Title:          P9.pdf
> Author:         Wellhoefer
> Creator:        PScript5.dll Version 5.2
> Producer:       Acrobat Distiller 5.0 (Windows)
> CreationDate:   Mon Aug 21 20:32:06 2006
> ModDate:        Mon Aug 21 20:32:06 2006
> Tagged:         no
> Pages:          237
> Encrypted:      no
> Page size:      595 x 842 pts (A4)
> File size:      1279189 bytes
> Optimized:      yes
> PDF version:    1.3
>
> googling "wellhoefer plan 9" found this on wikipedia:
>
> German book about Plan 9: Hans-Peter Bischof, Gunter Imeyer, Bernhard
> Wellhöfer (born as Kühl), Axel-Tobias Schreiner: Das
> Netzbetriebssystem Plan 9. 1999, ISBN 3-446-18881-9. The book is out
> of print, but available for free at the print-on-demand service
> provider Lulu.com.

Yeah, looking at it I was thinking that the only Plan 9 book I know of
in German was co-authored by Axel Schreiner, who teaches at my school
:)

Now if only I could read German...

John Floren

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[hugo rivera]

2009/2/23, erik quanstrom <quanstro@coraid.com>:
> this seems dated to me #w, #H and #b no longer
>  exist and the install is now quite different.
>
>
>  - erik
>
>

The book seems rather old and somehow outdated, but I think (meaning
hope, since my german goes as far as knowing what a maulesel is) that
the main design ideas are there.
I really don't expect him to read it, but maybe he does, and he can
end up like me (hopefully better than me) lurking around 9fans to get
some knowledge out of it.

--

Hugo

[9fans] spreding the word

[hugo rivera]

Well,
I made an obvious mistake and sent the last email to the wrong address.
I apologize for that.

--
Saludos

Hugo

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[Christian Walther]

Hello Hugo,

2009/2/23 hugo rivera <uair00@gmail.com>:
> Well,
> I made an obvious mistake and sent the last email to the wrong address.
> I apologize for that.
>
Some mistakes can be usefull, at least for other people. ;-)
In my case I welcome your mistake, because I didn't know that a german
document covering Plan 9 exists. Plan 9 is fascinating, but
understanding the documents can be quite difficult. At least it was
for me as a non native speaker. This is why I keep on lurking around
on this list, gathering information mostly, instead of working with
Plan 9.
This document might be old and even outdated to some degree, but I
guess it's still worth reading.
It would be great to have the source of the book, maybe it would be
worth it to create a community based 2nd release. But I guess with all
the copyright issues involved this will be next to impossible.

Cheers
Christian Walther

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[erik quanstrom]

> It would be great to have the source of the book, maybe it would be
> worth it to create a community based 2nd release. But I guess with all
> the copyright issues involved this will be next to impossible.

i can't think of any advantages of 2e over 4e.  perhaps
others disagree.

if you're after the historical progression of how the
structure of the kernel evolved, the file server kernel
is much more interesting.

- erik

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[Venkatesh Srinivas]

>if you're after the historical progression of how the
>structure of the kernel evolved, the file server kernel
>is much more interesting.

Any bits in particular? Any reason why?

-- vs

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[erik quanstrom]

On Mon Feb 23 17:02:29 EST 2009, me@acm.jhu.edu wrote:
> >if you're after the historical progression of how the
> >structure of the kernel evolved, the file server kernel
> >is much more interesting.
>
> Any bits in particular? Any reason why?

port/proc.c is very interesting, as are pc/lock.c
and pc/trap.c.

they are all very interesting as they illustrate
the same concepts the pc kernel deals with, but
they are substatially simplier.  i fear i've complicated
things a bit.  hardware is more complicated these
days.

naturally, the fs kernel is less capable.  it lacks
dynamic memory, for example.  but the beauty
is that it doesn't need those things.  i think it's
an interesting study in tradeoffs.

einstein said "make everything as simple as
possible, but not simpler".  i think ken's take
is that if it's not simple enough, you're solving
the wrong problem.

- erik

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[Anthony Sorace]

erik wrote:
// i can't think of any advantages of 2e over 4e.  perhaps others disagree.

not "advantages", no, but there are bits and pieces that were
interesting ideas, even if they didn't pan out, that are overlooked.

the whole streams idea is really educational. nonet was neat. having
datakit code in there made the network transparency feel a bit more
real (different world, i know).

i often wish GraphicsMagick or ImageMagick were as easy to use as the fb tools.

oh, and since there's some people on this list at a company that makes
a map program: 2e's 'roads' was great. being able to specify a
particular road or roads and have only those displayed was super
useful. i'd love to see that in a certain map-like program.

still, you'd give up a lot to go back in time. better to identify any
bits worth the effort and bring them forward.

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[Anthony Sorace]

correction: i think nonet was out of the official distribution by 2e.
still neat.

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[cinap_lenrek]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 200 bytes --]

Yeah right... We all make mistakes... Not to think of hardware failures!
I'v just made a backup of that file for you in case you loose it ok? ;-)

You can feel mutch more secure now!

--
cinap

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2253 bytes --]

From: hugo rivera <uair00@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: [9fans] spreding the word
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:41:05 +0100
Message-ID: <138575260902230741t4672eacaw1f3f9f928638e0ab@mail.gmail.com>

Well,
I made an obvious mistake and sent the last email to the wrong address.
I apologize for that.

--
Saludos

Hugo

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[hugo rivera]

Great, thanks.

2009/2/24, cinap_lenrek@gmx.de <cinap_lenrek@gmx.de>:
> Yeah right... We all make mistakes... Not to think of hardware failures!
>  I'v just made a backup of that file for you in case you loose it ok? ;-)
>
>  You can feel mutch more secure now!
>
>
>  --
>  cinap
>
>
> ---------- Mensaje reenviado ----------
> From: hugo rivera <uair00@gmail.com>
> To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:41:05 +0100
> Subject: [9fans] spreding the word
> Well,
>  I made an obvious mistake and sent the last email to the wrong address.
>  I apologize for that.
>
>  --
>  Saludos
>
>  Hugo
>


--
Hugo

[9fans] spreding the word

[hugo rivera]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 330 bytes --]

Hi Maulesel,
I just ran into this book and I am sending it to you for two reasons:
1.- It's in german.
2.- It's about Plan 9.
I am almost certain that you are not interested, but one never knows;
maybe you become a plan 9 developer or something, then you can teach
me lots of things about plan 9 ;-)

--
Saludos

Hugo

[-- Attachment #2: P9_embedded_fonts.pdf --]
[-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 1279189 bytes --]

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[Wes Kussmaul]

hugo rivera wrote:
> Hi Maulesel,
> I just ran into this book and I am sending it to you for two reasons:
> 1.- It's in german.
> 2.- It's about Plan 9.

3. You sell hard drives to server operators for a living.

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[erik quanstrom]

On Mon Feb 23 12:20:19 EST 2009, wes@authentrus.com wrote:
> hugo rivera wrote:
> > Hi Maulesel,
> > I just ran into this book and I am sending it to you for two reasons:
> > 1.- It's in german.
> > 2.- It's about Plan 9.
>
> 3. You sell hard drives to server operators for a living.

relax.  it would take 583166 of these messages to
fill a tb drive.  tb drives go for about $100 these days.

- erik

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[Wes Kussmaul]

erik quanstrom wrote:
> On Mon Feb 23 12:20:19 EST 2009, wes@authentrus.com wrote:
>> hugo rivera wrote:
>>> Hi Maulesel,
>>> I just ran into this book and I am sending it to you for two reasons:
>>> 1.- It's in german.
>>> 2.- It's about Plan 9.
>> 3. You sell hard drives to server operators for a living.
>
> relax.  it would take 583166 of these messages to
> fill a tb drive.  tb drives go for about $100 these days.
>
> - erik

I forgot the smileys :-) :-)

Re: [9fans] spreding the word

[erik quanstrom]

> > relax.  it would take 583166 of these messages to
> > fill a tb drive.  tb drives go for about $100 these days.
> >
> > - erik
>
> I forgot the smileys :-) :-)

i guess we're even then.  i forgot my sense of humor today.

- erik