[9fans] Fifth Edition

[9fans] Fifth Edition

[Mark Tuson]

Hi,

I've just started playing with Plan 9 on a little machine I've fitted
up as a laboratory, alongside OpenBSD and v7x86.

Playing with it and reading the manual (which I printed off in its
entirety at my college's library), I notice that it hasn't been
updated for eight years or so. So I'm curious; is Plan 9, Fourth
Edition going to be the last? Or is there a Fifth Edition on its way
at some point?

Also, out of interest, is there a copy of Third Edition extant on the
web? It'd be nice to play with an older version on a VM, some time.

Thanks. Mark.

Re: [9fans] Fifth Edition

[Steve Simon]

> Playing with it and reading the manual (which I printed off in its
> entirety at my college's library), I notice that it hasn't been
> updated for eight years or so. So I'm curious; is Plan 9, Fourth
> Edition going to be the last? Or is there a Fifth Edition on its way
> at some point?


A common misconception. Editions refer to major overhalls of the system,
and to a lesser extent printed (i.e. paper) editions of the manual.

Plan9 is continuously updated, changes often happening several times a week.

You can update your installation to the latest provided on bell labs servers
by running the pull script in glenda's bin directory.

	/usr/glenda/bin/rc/pull

Note, the user who you perform pull as must be in group sys
to have the rights to overwrite "system" files.

-Steve

Re: [9fans] Fifth Edition

[Mark Tuson]

On Sep 20, 12:59 pm, st...@quintile.net (Steve Simon) wrote:
> > Playing with it and reading the manual (which I printed off in its
> > entirety at my college's library), I notice that it hasn't been
> > updated for eight years or so. So I'm curious; is Plan 9, Fourth
> > Edition going to be the last? Or is there a Fifth Edition on its way
> > at some point?
>
> A common misconception. Editions refer to major overhalls of the system,
> and to a lesser extent printed (i.e. paper) editions of the manual.
>
> Plan9 is continuously updated, changes often happening several times a week.
>
> You can update your installation to the latest provided on bell labs servers
> by running the pull script in glenda's bin directory.
>
>         /usr/glenda/bin/rc/pull
>
> Note, the user who you perform pull as must be in group sys
> to have the rights to overwrite "system" files.
>
> -Steve

I understand how that works, with the edition not changing, but still,
will there ever be a Fifth Edition?

I've tried pull (copied pull from Glenda's account to mine) but it
didn't work. Can't remember the exact error message, but it couldn't
find the files, apparently. Even after I'd spent ages figuring out how
to do networking. Is there a no way to update from a source other than
the 'net? Like download a repository and install it from there? I'm
perfectly happy updating over the 'net on my box, but it's a laptop
that isn't on the supported list, so I have to be prepared for the
network hardware not being fully supported, so if I can find a way to
get the files onto it, I hope I can to do it from a local source, if
need be.

How up-to-date is the image on the Plan 9 site? I heard about the
nightlies, but they don't seem to be around, so I'm assuming that the
ISO on the site is the newest version.

And are there any old versions of Plan 9 around that I could install
in, say, QEMU? I know Third Edition was out there, but it's gone - I'd
ask if anyone knows about First and Second, but that might not be
wise, considering First was internal only and Second was purchase
only. But still - ?

Re: [9fans] Fifth Edition

[Steve Simon]

the iso on the bell labs site is built nightly so if you have that you have the
up-to-date source.

I wouldn't expect there will be a fifth edition as most of the plan9 team from bell
labs now work at google. Having said this it might happen, it depends on the
priorities inside lucent-alcatel.

you call update from a mounted iso image if you have no network but
i cannot remember the exact runes, maybe the 9fans archives will help?

the third edition is not very interesting, it is very similar to the fourth
but has a different 9p protocol (and a few other things).

the seccond was purchased like a book for $270 (from memory), the cdroms do appear
(with license card one hopes) on ebay from time to time. I archived the
four distribution floppies of the binary only "demo" release for posterity.

the first edition was given to universities who expressed an interest,
like Unix was in its early days. the license for ed1 was restrictive so
these cdroms don't appear - some people might still have the single demo floppy
that Rob gave out in london but thats your only hope.

I put some historic papers and distribution images (copyright permitting) on
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/steve/historic, and I believe uriel
has more on http://www.cat-v.org

-Steve

Re: [9fans] Fifth Edition

[Uriel]

On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> wrote:
> I put some historic papers and distribution images (copyright permitting) on
> http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/steve/historic, and I believe uriel
> has more on http://www.cat-v.org

All the historical papers I have collected over the years are available at:

http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/

and the 2nd Ed manual is online at:

http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9_2nd_ed/

If anyone has access to the 1st Ed manuals or distribution, I will be
happy to also add them to cat-v.org

Enjoy

uriel

Re: [9fans] Fifth Edition

[Mark Tuson]

On Sep 28, 1:30 am, st...@quintile.net (Steve Simon) wrote:
> the iso on the bell labs site is built nightly so if you have that you have the
> up-to-date source.
>
> I wouldn't expect there will be a fifth edition as most of the plan9 team from bell
> labs now work at google. Having said this it might happen, it depends on the
> priorities inside lucent-alcatel.
>
> you call update from a mounted iso image if you have no network but
> i cannot remember the exact runes, maybe the 9fans archives will help?
>
> the third edition is not very interesting, it is very similar to the fourth
> but has a different 9p protocol (and a few other things).
>
> the seccond was purchased like a book for $270 (from memory), the cdroms do appear
> (with license card one hopes) on ebay from time to time. I archived the
> four distribution floppies of the binary only "demo" release for posterity.
>
> the first edition was given to universities who expressed an interest,
> like Unix was in its early days. the license for ed1 was restrictive so
> these cdroms don't appear - some people might still have the single demo floppy
> that Rob gave out in london but thats your only hope.
>
> I put some historic papers and distribution images (copyright permitting) onhttp://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/steve/historic, and I believe uriel
> has more onhttp://www.cat-v.org
>
> -Steve

Steve, would you be willing to share copies of the demo discs? Which
architecture do they use? I just want to play with something ancient
as well as modern, then I'll feel like I have a better feel for the
system.

Thanks.

Re: [9fans] Fifth Edition

[Lucio De Re]

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:02:22AM +0000, Mark Tuson wrote:
>
> Steve, would you be willing to share copies of the demo discs? Which
> architecture do they use? I just want to play with something ancient
> as well as modern, then I'll feel like I have a better feel for the
> system.
>
I can't imagine any logical reason why this should be submitted as a
public message.

++L

Re: [9fans] Fifth Edition

[David Leimbach]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 752 bytes --]

On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 3:19 AM, Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:02:22AM +0000, Mark Tuson wrote:
> >
> > Steve, would you be willing to share copies of the demo discs? Which
> > architecture do they use? I just want to play with something ancient
> > as well as modern, then I'll feel like I have a better feel for the
> > system.
> >
> I can't imagine any logical reason why this should be submitted as a
> public message.
>
> ++L
>
> I can't imagine any logical reason why pointing that out should have been a
public message either.  Or why this message should have been a public
message pointing that out.

But alas there they are, archived for eternity, on the internet.

Shame really.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1144 bytes --]

Re: [9fans] Fifth Edition

[hiro]

Wenn hier nicht bald Ruhe ist werd ich euch alle an die ss verpfeifen,
auch was ihr da alles mit dem weissen Hasen im Keller heimlich
ansteckt! Das ist VERBOTEN und eine Schande fuer das Vaterland!

Re: [9fans] Fifth Edition

[Mark Tuson]

On Oct 19, 7:06 pm, 23h...@googlemail.com (hiro) wrote:
> If this is peace I will not soon all of you to blow the whistle on the ss,
> also why do you all secretly in the basement with the white rabbit
> contagious! It is FORBIDDEN and a shame for my country!

What the hell is this, bad poetry?

Re: [9fans] Fifth Edition

[Harri Haataja]

On 20 October 2010 11:44, Mark Tuson <markfptuson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 19, 7:06 pm, 23h...@googlemail.com (hiro) wrote:
>> If this is peace I will not soon all of you to blow the whistle on the ss,
>> also why do you all secretly in the basement with the white rabbit
>> contagious! It is FORBIDDEN and a shame for my country!
> What the hell is this, bad poetry?

Sounds more like the semirandom generated/quoted garbage that spammers
use to probe email addresses.

-- 
I appear to be temporarily using gmail's horrible interface. I
apologise for any failure in my part in trying to make it do the right
thing with post formatting.

Re: [9fans] Fifth Edition

[Julius Schmidt]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 752 bytes --]

> On 20 October 2010 11:44, Mark Tuson <markfptuson@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 19, 7:06 pm, 23h...@googlemail.com (hiro) wrote:
>>> If this is peace I will not soon all of you to blow the whistle on the ss,
>>> also why do you all secretly in the basement with the white rabbit
>>> contagious! It is FORBIDDEN and a shame for my country!
>> What the hell is this, bad poetry?
>
> Sounds more like the semirandom generated/quoted garbage that spammers
> use to probe email addresses.
Of course google translation (or something worse) converts this
garbage.

If you don't be quiet, I'll tell the SS about you, especially what
you're doing to that white rabbit in the basement!
This is VERBOTEN [forbidden] and a shame for the homecountry!

Re: [9fans] Fifth Edition

[hiro]

> Of course google translation (or something worse) converts this
> garbage.

You mean automatically? That's evil.

Re: [9fans] Fifth Edition

[Jacob Todd]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 281 bytes --]

No, that's what google translate spits out when you enter your post that was
in german.
On Oct 20, 2010 3:41 PM, "hiro" <23hiro@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Of course google translation (or something worse) converts this
>> garbage.
>
> You mean automatically? That's evil.
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 443 bytes --]

Re: [9fans] Fifth Edition

[Steve Simon]

/n/sources/contrib/steve/historic/2nd-edition/pcdist/*

there is some other stuff on there about the early releases
which might be of interest. I have a copy of the 2nd edition cdrom,
but that is still under copywrite so I cannot give you a copy
unless you can supply me with a valid license serial number.
This was printed on the business reply card that came with the
original distribution pack from Harecourt Brace.

-Steve

Re: [9fans] Fifth Edition

[Mark Tuson]

On Oct 19, 11:22 am, lu...@proxima.alt.za (Lucio De Re) wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:02:22AM +0000, Mark Tuson wrote:
>
> > Steve, would you be willing to share copies of the demo discs? Which
> > architecture do they use? I just want to play with something ancient
> > as well as modern, then I'll feel like I have a better feel for the
> > system.
>
> I can't imagine any logical reason why this should be submitted as a
> public message.
>
> ++L

Yeah, whoops. I'd forgotten this was Usenet then, thought it was a
forum. Any road, it doesn't bother me if people know I'm after a copy.
I've not done anything wrong, so I've nothing to hide.

Re: [9fans] Fifth Edition

[jake]

> I've tried pull (copied pull from Glenda's account to mine) but it
> didn't work. Can't remember the exact error message, but it couldn't
> find the files, apparently. Even after I'd spent ages figuring out how
> to do networking. Is there a no way to update from a source other than
> the 'net? Like download a repository and install it from there? I'm
> perfectly happy updating over the 'net on my box, but it's a laptop
> that isn't on the supported list, so I have to be prepared for the
> network hardware not being fully supported, so if I can find a way to
> get the files onto it, I hope I can to do it from a local source, if
> need be.
>
I update my laptop by downloading and putting the newest iso on a flash
drive in linux, the reboot into plan 9. Next I mount the iso in
$home/contrib/contrib, then bind that to /n/sources and do
replica/pull -v /dist/replica/network. That has worked fine for me
for a couple of months.

> How up-to-date is the image on the Plan 9 site? I heard about the
> nightlies, but they don't seem to be around, so I'm assuming that the
> ISO on the site is the newest version.
>
I believe they're updated whenever sources is updated, so it might not
exactly be nightly, but they are updated frequently.

> And are there any old versions of Plan 9 around that I could install
> in, say, QEMU? I know Third Edition was out there, but it's gone - I'd
> ask if anyone knows about First and Second, but that might not be
> wise, considering First was internal only and Second was purchase
> only. But still - ?
>
You can install the fourth edition in qemu just fine.
http://www.9gridchan.org/9grid_node_img has some images that are built
for doing grid work, you might want to check those out.