[9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Robert Raschke]

Hi Everyone,

apologies in advance for the off topicness and potentially flame
inducing nature ...  maybe it would be best if all replies just went
to me directly and not the list.

I am working in a Windows only environment and am looking for some
kind of replacement for Acme or Sam to use in this environment.

I have tried the 9pm stuff (and the even older Sam for Windows), but
under XP Professional all the GUI programs hang.  I haven't managed to
get it to rebuild properly yet.

I have also tried qemu and VMWare.  The former locks up my machine,
regardless of guest OS. The latter (at least in V5) publishes lots of
crap on the host side (things like DHCP server, which means I am
currently on the bad books of the IT admin team).

Can anyone recommend an editor that does not insist on coloring my
text, has no bloody special modes for C or XML or ..., has decent
copy-n-paste (i.e., double click selects something reasonable, and not
everything between whitespace)?  I have tried gvim and eclipse,
neither of which was any good.

I am very close to resigning to fate and coming to grips with emacs.

Feeling deprived,
Robby

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Richard Bilson]

On 5/9/05, Robert Raschke <rrplan9@tombob.com> wrote:
> 
> I have tried the 9pm stuff (and the even older Sam for Windows), but
> under XP Professional all the GUI programs hang.  I haven't managed to
> get it to rebuild properly yet.

This isn't going to help Robby, but I'll point out, for the sake of
the archives, that the 9pm sam works for me on XP pro. I do have
problems with some of the other programs (rc, in particular).

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Jack Johnson]

On 5/9/05, Richard Bilson <rcbilson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/9/05, Robert Raschke <rrplan9@tombob.com> wrote:
> >
> > I have tried the 9pm stuff (and the even older Sam for Windows), but
> > under XP Professional all the GUI programs hang.  I haven't managed to
> > get it to rebuild properly yet.
> 
> This isn't going to help Robby, but I'll point out, for the sake of
> the archives, that the 9pm sam works for me on XP pro. I do have
> problems with some of the other programs (rc, in particular).

I use all of the above regularly on XP SP2 with no problems.

Could you post a bug-inducing rc script for me to test?

As for Robby, there's always acme under Inferno, if you don't mind the
extra layer.  I've also seen rumors of people getting plan9ports
working under Cygwin (I wonder if it works under U/WIN as well?) so
there may be other options yet.

-Jack

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Robert Raschke]

On 9 May 2005, Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/9/05, Richard Bilson <rcbilson@gmail.com> wrote:
>> This isn't going to help Robby, but I'll point out, for the sake of
>> the archives, that the 9pm sam works for me on XP pro. I do have
>> problems with some of the other programs (rc, in particular).
> 
> I use all of the above regularly on XP SP2 with no problems.
> 
> Could you post a bug-inducing rc script for me to test?
> 
> As for Robby, there's always acme under Inferno, if you don't mind the
> extra layer.  I've also seen rumors of people getting plan9ports
> working under Cygwin (I wonder if it works under U/WIN as well?) so
> there may be other options yet.

Well, on my setup XP Por SP2 on an HP nc8000 laptop, Sam starts up and
I can navigate fine with the mouse for a little while.  Sometimes it
goes into not responding state the second I touch the keybord, and
sometimes I can type for a while and when I attempt to use the mouse
again it dies.  It might be hardware related in some way?  Both
keyboard and mouse are USB.  (9pm works without a hitch on my really
old Dell laptop at home with W2K.)

Inferno is an interesting idea.  I haven't looked at that in about 3-4
years.  How good are the chances of me accessing Windows shares and/or
local disks from Inferno?  (At the moment I'm trying to find a way to
run Linux under Virtual PC, so multiple layers don't faze me.  VMWare
made me unpopular with the sysadmins, so hopefully MS tech might
not interfere so much with the network. Here's me hoping, eh?)

Thank you to Nigel Roles who pointed out TextPad to me, which seems to
be nicely unobtrusive after I've turned off all the highlighting and
tab munging.  This will keep me sane for a little while longer.

Robby

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Richard Bilson]

On 5/9/05, Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Could you post a bug-inducing rc script for me to test?

As I recall, attempting to use any sort of shell function fails. But I
haven't tested this since SP2, so you never know. I'll try it again
tonight, and send you an example if it still fails.

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Skip Tavakkolian]

> I use all of the above regularly on XP SP2 with no problems.

Almost the same here.  One exception is that, very occasionally, B'ing
a file to a running Sam causes it to hang.

Regarding the original question, if you have a Plan9 cpu on a local
network, dt2k may be the best route.

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Robert Raschke]

> Regarding the original question, if you have a Plan9 cpu on a local
> network, dt2k may be the best route.

I have had idle thoughts of attempting to try and get permission to
install my own hardware ...

It would only solve my problem for those times I'm actually docked in
at work though.  A kind of half way solution, I guess.  Now, a teensy
box that I could tape to the back of my laptop, capable of running
either P9 cpu or Linux, and connected via (?) ...  this is where my
dreaming stops at the moment.

Robby

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[rog]

> Now, a teensy box that I could tape to the back of my laptop, capable
> of running either P9 cpu or Linux, and connected via (?)  ...  this is
> where my dreaming stops at the moment.

i store a version of inferno on a little usb flash device that i keep
on my keyring.

on most windows computers, i can just plug it in the back, double
click, and up comes my usual environment.  initially it's a bit slow
running directly off the flash, but just fine once all the bits have
been obtained.

i can use this for a drawterm connection too.

i find this useful whereever there are only windows machines and i
want to check email, etc.  it saves carrying a laptop around -
particularly useful in net cafés when on holiday...

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[andrey mirtchovski]

> i store a version of inferno on a little usb flash device that i keep
> on my keyring.


you should put an 'inferno for the keyring' distribution on VN's site.
i'll download it for sure!

how about drawterm for inferno (i.e. native) to replace all the X/Win binaries?

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[rog]

> you should put an 'inferno for the keyring' distribution on VN's site.
> i'll download it for sure!

it's just a standard inferno distribution. (plus a .bat file
to start up the inferno wm automatically - one line)

> how about drawterm for inferno (i.e. native) to replace all the X/Win binaries?

the only stumbling block at the moment is the authentication.
as far as i'm aware, inferno can't currently make a plan 9 cpu
connection; what i do is a little more awkward:
i telnet to the plan 9 box (running netkey under inferno),
start up an (authenticated) inferno listener, and export
the inferno namespace to that, first running wmexport.
it does work, but it still feels a bit "rough edged" to replace
drawterm at the moment.

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Ronald G. Minnich]

On Mon, 9 May 2005, andrey mirtchovski wrote:

> you should put an 'inferno for the keyring' distribution on VN's site.
> i'll download it for sure!

me too, it sounds really neat.

ron

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Bruce Ellis]

I'm running drawterm+rio+sam from Hawaii to both my ozinferno site
in Sydney and somewhere in Seattle.  XP.  And ruthlessly leaving it
all installed on every computer I'm forced to use.  I love the Wireless
Access Lounge without a WAP.  At least there is a lot of CAT-5 to steal.

brucee

On 5/9/05, Ronald G. Minnich <rminnich@lanl.gov> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 9 May 2005, andrey mirtchovski wrote:
> 
> > you should put an 'inferno for the keyring' distribution on VN's site.
> > i'll download it for sure!
> 
> me too, it sounds really neat.
> 
> ron

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[rog]

> I'm running drawterm+rio+sam from Hawaii to both my ozinferno site

that reminds me: what happened to ozinferno?

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[David Leimbach]

Any word on ozInferno?  I've stopped checking the website. 

Dave

On 5/9/05, Bruce Ellis <bruce.ellis@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm running drawterm+rio+sam from Hawaii to both my ozinferno site
> in Sydney and somewhere in Seattle.  XP.  And ruthlessly leaving it
> all installed on every computer I'm forced to use.  I love the Wireless
> Access Lounge without a WAP.  At least there is a lot of CAT-5 to steal.
> 
> brucee
> 
> On 5/9/05, Ronald G. Minnich <rminnich@lanl.gov> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 9 May 2005, andrey mirtchovski wrote:
> >
> > > you should put an 'inferno for the keyring' distribution on VN's site.
> > > i'll download it for sure!
> >
> > me too, it sounds really neat.
> >
> > ron
>

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Bruce Ellis]

I just sent this to rog.  Sorry about the delay.

------
The server has been up for 120 days so I might say *stable*.

I've had a lot of Real work todo (pun wearing thin).

I'm not releasing anything without documentation so it's still
on hold except for a couple of kind soles trying to crash it.

It seems to work fine on this machine (I have it on a memory stick).

There is also a parallel project (Guido) which is Dis on a Chip.
It's very goofy - but very hard to get dudes who can grasp VHDL.
I call it "my army of orcs".

brucee

On 5/10/05, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:
> Any word on ozInferno?  I've stopped checking the website.
> 
> Dave
> 
> On 5/9/05, Bruce Ellis <bruce.ellis@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm running drawterm+rio+sam from Hawaii to both my ozinferno site
> > in Sydney and somewhere in Seattle.  XP.  And ruthlessly leaving it
> > all installed on every computer I'm forced to use.  I love the Wireless
> > Access Lounge without a WAP.  At least there is a lot of CAT-5 to steal.
> >
> > brucee
> >
> > On 5/9/05, Ronald G. Minnich <rminnich@lanl.gov> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, 9 May 2005, andrey mirtchovski wrote:
> > >
> > > > you should put an 'inferno for the keyring' distribution on VN's site.
> > > > i'll download it for sure!
> > >
> > > me too, it sounds really neat.
> > >
> > > ron
> >
>

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Skip Tavakkolian]

> And ruthlessly leaving it all installed on every computer I'm
> forced to use.

Same here.  I got tired of being a laptop mule.

If the inferno/plan9 auth stuff gets figured out, then the inferno
plugin (is there one for Firefox now?) would be an ideal substitute
for drawterm on the go.  It would be nice to drawterm without
(permanently) downloading it.

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Bruce Ellis]

ozinferno is now an ActiveX plugin due to circumstance.
probably be firefoxed today if i'm allowed to mix biz with plez.
stick that in your spreadsheet and run.

as much as i'm disgusted with ActiveX architecture you can
actually get it to work ... and as securely as anything on a
laptop except native plan9/inferno.

brucee

On 5/10/05, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> wrote:
> > And ruthlessly leaving it all installed on every computer I'm
> > forced to use.
> 
> Same here.  I got tired of being a laptop mule.
> 
> If the inferno/plan9 auth stuff gets figured out, then the inferno
> plugin (is there one for Firefox now?) would be an ideal substitute
> for drawterm on the go.  It would be nice to drawterm without
> (permanently) downloading it.
> 
>

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Charles Forsyth]

>>the only stumbling block at the moment is the authentication.
>>as far as i'm aware, inferno can't currently make a plan 9 cpu
>>connection

sure it can.

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Jack Johnson]

On 5/9/05, rog@vitanuova.com <rog@vitanuova.com> wrote:
> it's just a standard inferno distribution. (plus a .bat file
> to start up the inferno wm automatically - one line)

I've got the same thing going on my USB key.  It was pretty trivial to
set up, though because I use mine cross-platform it took a minor
amount of extra oomph.

Though the key is formatted FAT32, I think I ended up doing the
installation on either OSX or Linux due to case sensitivity.  Then I
just copied/renamed the appropriate emu binaries for the correct
platforms in the correct places, created batch and shell scripts to
handle the startup and voila.

Since then I've ripped out source/binaries for some of the platforms I
don't use (Solaris), just to recover some space.  Plus, I'm also lazy
and haven't updated it in a while, but it works very well.

I had worked/hoped for a while to get it to auth back to my home box,
import the filesystem, etc. -- kind of an Inferno thin client -- but I
really wanted it all to happen from within the WM, but certain aspects
really wanted authentication before the binds to make everything
friendly.

I also messed around with Inferno hosted on Linux for a while, so I
could just VNC to a full-screen session and just pack around the VNC
client.  Java VNC client would have worked, too, but how many layers
do you really want to add?

I also pack around 9pm on my key, because I find that useful.  My
"butcher box" is currently running Asterisk for a work-related
project, otherwise I'd probably do what everyone else does and just
drawterm home.

Where's that iMac Mini port, so I can just leave a CPU/auth/fileserver
on the bookshelf and be done with it? ;)

-Jack

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[rog]

> How good are the chances of me accessing Windows shares and/or
> local disks from Inferno?

no problem as long as they're assigned a drive letter
(#UX: gives drive X).

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Jack Johnson]

On 5/9/05, rog@vitanuova.com <rog@vitanuova.com> wrote:
> > How good are the chances of me accessing Windows shares and/or
> > local disks from Inferno?
> 
> no problem as long as they're assigned a drive letter
> (#UX: gives drive X).

Oh, very nice!

Is this a recent change, or did I just miss it somewhere along the line?

-Jack

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Jack Johnson]

On 5/9/05, rog@vitanuova.com <rog@vitanuova.com> wrote:
> no problem as long as they're assigned a drive letter
> (#UX: gives drive X).

What behavior does this exhibit on non-Windows hosts?

-Jack

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Richard Bilson]

On 5/9/05, Richard Bilson <rcbilson@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> As I recall, attempting to use any sort of shell function fails. But I
> haven't tested this since SP2, so you never know. I'll try it again
> tonight, and send you an example if it still fails.

It seems to work now, mysteriously. Oh happy day!

[9fans] Re: acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Matthias Teege]

On 5/9/05, rog@vitanuova.com <rog@vitanuova.com> wrote:

> i find this useful whereever there are only windows machines and i
> want to check email, etc.  it saves carrying a laptop around -

Do you use acme to read email from the inferno environment? Do you
mount your mbox?
Matthias

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Charles Forsyth]

it has been there in some form for years, but until several
years ago, it needed an emu option to enable it (for obscure
reasons that no longer matter).  inferno's fs(3) has a few details.

Many thanks (Was: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice)

[Robert Raschke]

>> How good are the chances of me accessing Windows shares and/or
>> local disks from Inferno?
> 
> no problem as long as they're assigned a drive letter
> (#UX: gives drive X).

Absolutely brilliant!  I think this will cure most of my immediate
Plan 9 tool withdrawal symptoms.

I have set up an Inferno, binding a lot of common directories I use
and just use Acme as if I'm at home.  Hurrah.  I need to bind lots of
stuff, as Acme seems to be unwilling to right-click browse into
directories with spaces in their name.

Thank you very much to everyone,
Robby

Re: [9fans] acme/sam junky in need of advice

[Bruce Ellis]

i did it 5 years ago.  i'm sure someone else worked out how easy it is,
tho i prefer '#*fs!E:\9stuff'

brucee

On 5/10/05, Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/9/05, rog@vitanuova.com <rog@vitanuova.com> wrote:
> > > How good are the chances of me accessing Windows shares and/or
> > > local disks from Inferno?
> >
> > no problem as long as they're assigned a drive letter
> > (#UX: gives drive X).
> 
> Oh, very nice!
> 
> Is this a recent change, or did I just miss it somewhere along the line?
> 
> -Jack
>