* [9fans] What operating systems are the google guys using? @ 2010-02-23 20:38 Brantley Coile 2010-02-23 17:12 ` Jacob Todd 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Brantley Coile @ 2010-02-23 20:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Given that Google has a critical mass of Plan 9 people working away, and doing great things in my humble opinion, one wonders, what kind of environment are you running? What does the people who created Plan 9 use day to day? Thanks Brantley ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] What operating systems are the google guys using? 2010-02-23 20:38 [9fans] What operating systems are the google guys using? Brantley Coile @ 2010-02-23 17:12 ` Jacob Todd 2010-02-23 22:23 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE6BBM/VE7TFX) 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Jacob Todd @ 2010-02-23 17:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 81 bytes --] I think mostly Macs with p9p. -- I am a man who does not exist for others. [-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 205 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] What operating systems are the google guys using? 2010-02-23 17:12 ` Jacob Todd @ 2010-02-23 22:23 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE6BBM/VE7TFX) 2010-02-24 1:15 ` Russ Cox 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Lyndon Nerenberg (VE6BBM/VE7TFX) @ 2010-02-23 22:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > I think mostly Macs with p9p. The Go(ogle) announcement video combined with running platforms indicate MacOS. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] What operating systems are the google guys using? 2010-02-23 22:23 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE6BBM/VE7TFX) @ 2010-02-24 1:15 ` Russ Cox 2010-02-24 7:41 ` Philippe Anel 2010-02-25 12:15 ` Peter A. Cejchan 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Russ Cox @ 2010-02-24 1:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs The standard set up for a Plan 9 aficionado here seems to be a Mac or Linux machine running Plan 9 from User Space to get at sam, acme, and the other tools. Rob, Ken, Dave, and I use Macs as our desktop machines, but we're a bit of an exception. Most Google engineers use Linux machines, and I know of quite a few ex-Bell Labs people who are happy to be using sam or acme on those machines. My own setup is two screens. The first is a standard Mac desktop with non-Plan 9 apps and a handful of 9terms, and the second is a full-screen acme for getting work done. On Linux I do the same but the first screen is a Linux desktop running rio (formerly dhog's 8½). More broadly, every few months I tend to get an email from someone who is happy to have just discovered that sam is still maintained and available for modern systems. A lot of the time these are people who only used sam on Unix, never on Plan 9. The plan9port.tgz file was downloaded from 2,522 unique IP addresses in 2009, which I suspect is many more than Plan 9 itself. In that sense, it's really nice to see the tools getting a much wider exposure than they used to. I haven't logged into a real Plan 9 system in many years, but I use 9vx occasionally when I want to remind myself how a real Plan 9 tool worked. It's always nice to be back, however briefly. Russ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] What operating systems are the google guys using? 2010-02-24 1:15 ` Russ Cox @ 2010-02-24 7:41 ` Philippe Anel 2010-02-24 8:35 ` Russ Cox 2010-02-25 12:15 ` Peter A. Cejchan 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Philippe Anel @ 2010-02-24 7:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Thanks for this info Russ. Can you briefly tell us why you (Russ, Rob, Ken and Dave) no longer use Plan9 ? Because of missing apps or because of missing driver for your hardware ? And do you still use venti ? Phil; ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@swtch.com> To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] What operating systems are the google guys using? The standard set up for a Plan 9 aficionado here seems to be a Mac or Linux machine running Plan 9 from User Space to get at sam, acme, and the other tools. Rob, Ken, Dave, and I use Macs as our desktop machines, but we're a bit of an exception. Most Google engineers use Linux machines, and I know of quite a few ex-Bell Labs people who are happy to be using sam or acme on those machines. My own setup is two screens. The first is a standard Mac desktop with non-Plan 9 apps and a handful of 9terms, and the second is a full-screen acme for getting work done. On Linux I do the same but the first screen is a Linux desktop running rio (formerly dhog's 8½). More broadly, every few months I tend to get an email from someone who is happy to have just discovered that sam is still maintained and available for modern systems. A lot of the time these are people who only used sam on Unix, never on Plan 9. The plan9port.tgz file was downloaded from 2,522 unique IP addresses in 2009, which I suspect is many more than Plan 9 itself. In that sense, it's really nice to see the tools getting a much wider exposure than they used to. I haven't logged into a real Plan 9 system in many years, but I use 9vx occasionally when I want to remind myself how a real Plan 9 tool worked. It's always nice to be back, however briefly. Russ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] What operating systems are the google guys using? 2010-02-24 7:41 ` Philippe Anel @ 2010-02-24 8:35 ` Russ Cox 2010-02-24 16:06 ` David Leimbach 2010-02-24 20:22 ` Rob Pike 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Russ Cox @ 2010-02-24 8:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > Can you briefly tell us why you (Russ, Rob, Ken and Dave) > no longer use Plan9 ? > Because of missing apps or because of missing driver for your hardware ? > And do you still use venti ? Operating systems and programming languages have strong network effects: it helps to use the same system that everyone around you is using. In my group at MIT, that meant FreeBSD and C++. I ran Plan 9 for the first few years I was at MIT but gave up, because the lack of a shared system made it too hard to collaborate. When I switched to FreeBSD, I ported all the Plan 9 libraries and tools so I could keep the rest of the user experience. I still use venti, in that I still maintain the venti server that takes care of backups for my old group at MIT. It uses the plan9port venti, vbackup, and vnfs, all running on FreeBSD. The venti server itself was my last real Plan 9 installation. It's Coraid hardware, but I stripped the software and had installed my own Plan 9 kernel to run venti on it directly. But before I left MIT, the last thing I did was reinstall the machine using FreeBSD so that others could help keep it up to date. If I wasn't interacting with anyone else it'd be nice to keep using Plan 9. But it's also nice to be able to use off the shelf software instead of reinventing wheels (9fans runs on Linux) and to have good hardware support done by other people (I can shut my laptop and it goes to sleep, and even better, when I open it again, it wakes up!). Being able to get those things and still keep most of the Plan 9 user experience by running Plan 9 from User Space is a compromise, but one that works well for me. Russ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] What operating systems are the google guys using? 2010-02-24 8:35 ` Russ Cox @ 2010-02-24 16:06 ` David Leimbach 2010-02-24 20:22 ` Rob Pike 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2010-02-24 16:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2384 bytes --] On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:35 AM, Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote: > > Can you briefly tell us why you (Russ, Rob, Ken and Dave) > > no longer use Plan9 ? > > Because of missing apps or because of missing driver for your hardware ? > > And do you still use venti ? > > Operating systems and programming languages have > strong network effects: it helps to use the same system > that everyone around you is using. In my group at MIT, > that meant FreeBSD and C++. I ran Plan 9 for the first > few years I was at MIT but gave up, because the lack of > a shared system made it too hard to collaborate. > When I switched to FreeBSD, I ported all the Plan 9 libraries > and tools so I could keep the rest of the user experience. > > I still use venti, in that I still maintain the venti server that > takes care of backups for my old group at MIT. It uses > the plan9port venti, vbackup, and vnfs, all running on FreeBSD. > The venti server itself was my last real Plan 9 installation. > It's Coraid hardware, but I stripped the software and had installed > my own Plan 9 kernel to run venti on it directly. But before > I left MIT, the last thing I did was reinstall the machine using > FreeBSD so that others could help keep it up to date. > > If I wasn't interacting with anyone else it'd be nice to keep > using Plan 9. But it's also nice to be able to use off the shelf > software instead of reinventing wheels (9fans runs on Linux) > and to have good hardware support done by other people > (I can shut my laptop and it goes to sleep, and even better, > when I open it again, it wakes up!). Being able to get those > things and still keep most of the Plan 9 user experience by > running Plan 9 from User Space is a compromise, but one > that works well for me. > > Russ > > And as you said before, there's always the vx32 port :-). I find it's often a lot more practical for me to run stuff in that or Inferno hosted on Mac OS X as well. I used to keep a Plan 9 box at home, but it released the magic smoke the other day, and I'm afraid that means it's dead. I've been kicking a few ideas around about replacing it, and maybe trying to make it more useful to the community somehow that I run one, but I've got to get buy in from the wife to invest. (Isn't there some tax write-off for hobbies or something in the US?) Dave [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2856 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] What operating systems are the google guys using? 2010-02-24 8:35 ` Russ Cox 2010-02-24 16:06 ` David Leimbach @ 2010-02-24 20:22 ` Rob Pike 2010-02-24 23:29 ` Brantley Coile 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Rob Pike @ 2010-02-24 20:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs What Russ says is true but for me it was simpler. I used Plan 9 as my local operating system for a year or so after joining Google, but it was just too inconvenient to live on a machine without a C++ compiler, without good NFS and SSH support, and especially without a web browser. I switched to Linux but found it very buggy (the main problem was most likely a bad graphics board and/or driver, but still) and my main collaborator (Robert Griesemer) had done the ground work to get a Mac working as a primary machine inside Google, and Russ had plan9port up, so I pushed plan9port onto the Mac and have been there ever since, quite happily. Nowadays Apples are officially supported so it's become easy, workwise. I miss a lot of what Plan 9 did for me, but the concerns at work override that. -rob ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] What operating systems are the google guys using? 2010-02-24 20:22 ` Rob Pike @ 2010-02-24 23:29 ` Brantley Coile 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Brantley Coile @ 2010-02-24 23:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Thanks for all the responses. We us a lot of Macs as well. Everyone has a Mac and use plan9ports, drawterm, 9vx, terminals running in Parallels or Fusion, and hosted Inferno. We also, of course, have a real Plan 9 network with a Ken file server using EtherDrive as both the local cache and the worm drives, and a collection of cpu servers for doing development driver work. We get the best of both worlds. Thanks again. Brantley ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] What operating systems are the google guys using? 2010-02-24 1:15 ` Russ Cox 2010-02-24 7:41 ` Philippe Anel @ 2010-02-25 12:15 ` Peter A. Cejchan 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Peter A. Cejchan @ 2010-02-25 12:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > I haven't logged into a real Plan 9 system in many years, Oooooh, noooo!!! WHY?!? As a plain user, a non-techie, I use Plan 9 native as my firs OS on everyday basis... I log onto linux only for testing things that may be worth porting, and for compiling the c++ stuff... Please, do not let the native Plan 9 die... ++pac ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2010-02-25 12:15 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2010-02-23 20:38 [9fans] What operating systems are the google guys using? Brantley Coile 2010-02-23 17:12 ` Jacob Todd 2010-02-23 22:23 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE6BBM/VE7TFX) 2010-02-24 1:15 ` Russ Cox 2010-02-24 7:41 ` Philippe Anel 2010-02-24 8:35 ` Russ Cox 2010-02-24 16:06 ` David Leimbach 2010-02-24 20:22 ` Rob Pike 2010-02-24 23:29 ` Brantley Coile 2010-02-25 12:15 ` Peter A. Cejchan
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