Re: [9fans] localization

["Iruatã Souza" <iru.muzgo@gmail.com>]

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 3:04 PM,  <tlaronde@polynum.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 05:59:08PM +0200, dexen deVries wrote:
>> browsing through uriel's slides from fosdem 2006 [1], i see him mention Plan 9
>> lacks localization. what are this lists feelings on localization (both
>> translation of strings and formatting of numbers, time etc.) of user-facing
>> applications?
>>
>> the only model i know right now is gettext() and related from GNU; there's
>> gotta be a better way; perhaps an fs for it? ;-)
>
> As an example of the joy of the localization, switching recently KerGIS
> servers from NetBSD 3.x to NetBSD 5.x, the same code recompiled would
> give errors, with cryptic messages, until I happen to pin the problem to
> the formating of numbers... I use, as a backup version of files, a text
> (mainly ASCII) transcription of the data, and use 'd.d' for example. But
> since users had LC_ALL set to french, NetBSD 3.x didn't support nor time
> neither number localization so no problem, but 5.x now does. Result :
> "french" 'd,d' was expected for input; and 'd,d' sent for output. Joy!
>
> For another mean instead of gettext(), you have what has done Donald E.
> Knuth with TeX and al: : all the strings are extracted in a "pool"
> file---a text file---, so as long as one sticks to the index (the
> position), one can provide a translated pool file to localize.
>
> Furthermore, IMHO, there are 3 levels:
>
> - 0: firmware/kernel: LANG C (a restricted faulty subset of english)
> - 1: system libraries and utils, directly used by programmers, not
> really users: LANG C (idem)
> - 2: user level scripts or programs; since they are adapted for higher
> level manipulation, the levels 0 and 1 messages have no meaning for the
> user, so it is useless to translate. And since level 2 shall match the
> user (here is the business!), this is not a problem.
>
> So, for me at least, the best solution to this difficult problem is the
> one provided for Plan9 by Rob Pile and Ken Thompson (I cite the authors
> of the "Hello World or...", i.e. UTF8.
>
> More is too much.

I tend to think that only user programs should be translated, the TeX
approach you describe seems simple enough.
As a brazilian, I have precisely the same feeling of Gabriel Diaz and
I always use the computer in English.

> I particularly enjoy good translations into my language, both in programs,
> books, films, or whatever. I find it, translating, a job to be proud of.
Good translations are very nice, but more difficult the subject of
translation is, the more trouble to find one (at least to portuguese).
And, at least in open source, it seems that translators of portuguese
can't keep themselves motived for the needed time.