[9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[David Leimbach]

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I was outside watering plants this morning that seem to be proof of my
"not-so-green thumb" I have for gardening and was thinking of an interesting
home-automation use for Plan 9.

What I'd like to do is get the following:

1. Moisture sensor I can embed in some potted plant soil, and read from Plan
9.
2. Tubing.
3. Pump I can control from Plan 9 based on moisture feedback.
4. Perhaps a rain bucket water source.

Anyone else using Plan 9 for automated gardening?  I was thinking this could
be the use for Plan 9 on my guruplug.

Any ideas how best to achieve this?  If some stuff isn't supported by Plan
9, I'm willing to investigate the writing of drivers to make it work
properly.

Just trying to find new ways to be lazy I suppose.

Dave

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Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[EBo]

 On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 06:44:09 -0700, David Leimbach wrote:
> I was outside watering plants this morning that seem to be proof of
> my
> "not-so-green thumb" I have for gardening and was thinking of an
> interesting
> home-automation use for Plan 9.

 take a look at styx-on-a-brick.  Once you have the basic devices
 working, actuating a relay/pump should be straight forward.

   EBo --

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[David Leimbach]

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On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 6:48 AM, EBo <ebo@sandien.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 06:44:09 -0700, David Leimbach wrote:
>
>> I was outside watering plants this morning that seem to be proof of my
>> "not-so-green thumb" I have for gardening and was thinking of an
>> interesting
>> home-automation use for Plan 9.
>>
>
> take a look at styx-on-a-brick.  Once you have the basic devices working,
> actuating a relay/pump should be straight forward.
>
>  EBo --
>
> I figured I'd need some kind of microcontroller for the pump and sensors.
 Maybe this is a Plan 9 managed, microcontroller project?

Then the styx-on-a-brick example seems a great starting point for getting
the query status, execute action interface.

I plan for this to be a long term, here and there geeky-dad project I can
share with my daughter :-)  (She's only 3 but I think she already has
mastered the iPad)

Dave

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Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[hiro]

I don't get the point of plan9 here. Learning C should be a matter of
hours for such an unspoiled mind, so I'd say go with bare hardware.

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[David Leimbach]

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On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 9:32 AM, hiro <23hiro@googlemail.com> wrote:

> I don't get the point of plan9 here. Learning C should be a matter of
> hours for such an unspoiled mind, so I'd say go with bare hardware.
>
>
Consider that I may want to flesh out interfaces to this system later.  I
could also do this in Linux, or FreeBSD or even Windows, but why not on Plan
9?

Heck I could do it from Emacs if I wanted to...

The only reason plan 9 is interesting here is because it's the target I'm
choosing :-)

Dave

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Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[EBo]

 On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:22:55 -0700, David Leimbach wrote:
>
> Consider that I may want to flesh out interfaces to this system
> later.  I
> could also do this in Linux, or FreeBSD or even Windows, but why not
> on Plan
> 9?

 It would also be intersting to control these devices via the new Linux
 9p interface.

> Heck I could do it from Emacs if I wanted to...

 actually, I would love to see that as an implementation.  I can see it
 now... "editing" the garden.

> The only reason plan 9 is interesting here is because it's the target
> I'm
> choosing :-)

 I have other interests along this line as well.  This could make an
 interesting interface in general.

   EBo --

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[David Leimbach]

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On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 1:08 PM, EBo <ebo@sandien.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:22:55 -0700, David Leimbach wrote:
>
>>
>> Consider that I may want to flesh out interfaces to this system later.  I
>> could also do this in Linux, or FreeBSD or even Windows, but why not on
>> Plan
>> 9?
>>
>
> It would also be intersting to control these devices via the new Linux 9p
> interface.
>
>  Heck I could do it from Emacs if I wanted to...
>>
>
> actually, I would love to see that as an implementation.  I can see it
> now... "editing" the garden.
>

Issuing RPCs from Emacs is really not that bad if you can stomach elisp.


>  The only reason plan 9 is interesting here is because it's the target I'm
>> choosing :-)
>>
>
> I have other interests along this line as well.  This could make an
> interesting interface in general.
>
>  EBo --
>
>
>

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Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[EBo]

 On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:09:50 -0700, David Leimbach wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 1:08 PM, EBo <ebo@sandien.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 10:22:55 -0700, David Leimbach wrote:
>>>  Heck I could do it from Emacs if I wanted to...
>>
>> actually, I would love to see that as an implementation.  I can see
>> it
>> now... "editing" the garden.
>
> Issuing RPCs from Emacs is really not that bad if you can stomach
> elisp.

 Just the idea of that tickles my funny bone.  It has been quite awhile
 since I programmed anything serious in lisp, so it would take more time
 than I am interested in.  But thank you for giving me something amusing
 for the day.

   EBo --

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[erik quanstrom]

> Issuing RPCs from Emacs is really not that bad if you can stomach elisp.

in other words, it's a hateful experience that will leave your
soul as dark and twisted as an urskek's.

;-)

- erik

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[EBo]

 On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 09:26:16 -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
>> Issuing RPCs from Emacs is really not that bad if you can stomach
>> elisp.
>
> in other words, it's a hateful experience that will leave your
> soul as dark and twisted as an urskek's.

 Sometimes you just cannot help watching the train wreck...  Like the
 cat who stared down an aleatory and WON.  You never know what the end
 experience is going to be like, but sometimes it just looks BAD...

   EBo --

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[smiley]

erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> writes:

>> Issuing RPCs from Emacs is really not that bad if you can stomach elisp.
>
> in other words, it's a hateful experience that will leave your
> soul as dark and twisted as an urskek's.

Awh, come on.  elisp is fine.  The fact that the behavior of variables
and functions keep changing in undocumented ways from version to version
is what really annoys me.

Aw, snap.  Hold on a moment...  I have to reload Gnus...

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[Bakul Shah]

On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 06:44:09 PDT David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> I was outside watering plants this morning that seem to be proof of my
> "not-so-green thumb" I have for gardening and was thinking of an interesting
> home-automation use for Plan 9.
>
> What I'd like to do is get the following:
>
> 1. Moisture sensor I can embed in some potted plant soil, and read from Plan 9
> 2. Tubing.
> 3. Pump I can control from Plan 9 based on moisture feedback.
> 4. Perhaps a rain bucket water source.
>
> Anyone else using Plan 9 for automated gardening?  I was thinking this could
> be the use for Plan 9 on my guruplug.
>
> Any ideas how best to achieve this?  If some stuff isn't supported by Plan
> 9, I'm willing to investigate the writing of drivers to make it work
> properly.
>
> Just trying to find new ways to be lazy I suppose.

I just used X-10 for years for watering (periodic, no moisture
sensing -- plants are very forgiving). I still use that old
CP-290 for lights, laser printer on/off etc. One of these day
its ctl program needs to morph into a 9p server.

You can build a very cheap moisture sensor with two electrodes
and some plaster of paris [make it small so that it dries
quickly].  Calibrate resistance as a function of moisture.

May be an Arduino to measure the resistance and control a
relay to power a solenoid valve? May be it can talk 9p.

That said, I am very interested in an el-cheapo building block
that talks 9p over USB and can connect to various sensor
inputs, D2A and PWM outputs to control steppers etc. It should
mostly sleep to conserve power. Even nicer if it can be
wireless. el-cheapo == under $10 in small quantities!

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[Francisco J Ballesteros]

We had an x10fs for a serial cm11.
Might be even in sources.

On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 10:25 PM, Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 06:44:09 PDT David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>> I was outside watering plants this morning that seem to be proof of my
>> "not-so-green thumb" I have for gardening and was thinking of an interesting
>> home-automation use for Plan 9.
>>
>> What I'd like to do is get the following:
>>
>> 1. Moisture sensor I can embed in some potted plant soil, and read from Plan 9
>> 2. Tubing.
>> 3. Pump I can control from Plan 9 based on moisture feedback.
>> 4. Perhaps a rain bucket water source.
>>
>> Anyone else using Plan 9 for automated gardening?  I was thinking this could
>> be the use for Plan 9 on my guruplug.
>>
>> Any ideas how best to achieve this?  If some stuff isn't supported by Plan
>> 9, I'm willing to investigate the writing of drivers to make it work
>> properly.
>>
>> Just trying to find new ways to be lazy I suppose.
>
> I just used X-10 for years for watering (periodic, no moisture
> sensing -- plants are very forgiving). I still use that old
> CP-290 for lights, laser printer on/off etc. One of these day
> its ctl program needs to morph into a 9p server.
>
> You can build a very cheap moisture sensor with two electrodes
> and some plaster of paris [make it small so that it dries
> quickly].  Calibrate resistance as a function of moisture.
>
> May be an Arduino to measure the resistance and control a
> relay to power a solenoid valve? May be it can talk 9p.
>
> That said, I am very interested in an el-cheapo building block
> that talks 9p over USB and can connect to various sensor
> inputs, D2A and PWM outputs to control steppers etc. It should
> mostly sleep to conserve power. Even nicer if it can be
> wireless. el-cheapo == under $10 in small quantities!
>
>

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[Bakul Shah]

On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 22:34:00 +0200 Francisco J Ballesteros <nemo@lsub.org>  wrote:
> We had an x10fs for a serial cm11.
> Might be even in sources.

Thanks.  From what I recall a CM11 is quite different from a
CP290 but I can probably steal enough to make my task easier.
My CP290 has been pretty reliable so far (25 years?) but I
wonder how many are left -- does anyone else use it with
plan9?

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[EBo]

 On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 22:34:00 +0200, Francisco J Ballesteros wrote:
> We had an x10fs for a serial cm11.
> Might be even in sources.

 All I found on a web search for x10fs was a paper, but no sources.  Do
 you have a pointer to the sources?

   EBo --

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[Nemo]

isnt it in sources? if not ill dig the
dump. 

On Jul 30, 2011, at 1:23 AM, EBo <ebo@sandien.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 22:34:00 +0200, Francisco J Ballesteros wrote:
>> We had an x10fs for a serial cm11.
>> Might be even in sources.
> 
> All I found on a web search for x10fs was a paper, but no sources.  Do you have a pointer to the sources?
> 
>  EBo --
> 
> 

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[EBo]

 I just checked /n/sources/lsr and there is no x10fs.

 On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 01:58:32 +0200, Nemo wrote:
> isnt it in sources? if not ill dig the
> dump.
>
> On Jul 30, 2011, at 1:23 AM, EBo <ebo@sandien.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 22:34:00 +0200, Francisco J Ballesteros wrote:
>>> We had an x10fs for a serial cm11.
>>> Might be even in sources.
>>
>> All I found on a web search for x10fs was a paper, but no sources.
>> Do you have a pointer to the sources?

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[Francisco J Ballesteros]

/n/sources/contrib/nemo/x10.tar

It's been out of server for some time now, which means you might
have to change some bits to make it compile with the distribution
as it is today. I have not compiled it for a long time now.

hth

On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 2:09 AM, EBo <ebo@sandien.com> wrote:
> I just checked /n/sources/lsr and there is no x10fs.
>
> On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 01:58:32 +0200, Nemo wrote:
>>
>> isnt it in sources? if not ill dig the
>> dump.
>>
>> On Jul 30, 2011, at 1:23 AM, EBo <ebo@sandien.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 22:34:00 +0200, Francisco J Ballesteros wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We had an x10fs for a serial cm11.
>>>> Might be even in sources.
>>>
>>> All I found on a web search for x10fs was a paper, but no sources.  Do
>>> you have a pointer to the sources?
>
>

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[EBo]

 On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:34:39 +0200, Francisco J Ballesteros wrote:
> /n/sources/contrib/nemo/x10.tar
>
> It's been out of server for some time now, which means you might
> have to change some bits to make it compile with the distribution
> as it is today. I have not compiled it for a long time now.

 thanks.  I'll take a look at it when I get a chance.

   EBo --

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[Jack]

On 7/29/2011 3:34 PM, Francisco J Ballesteros wrote:
> We had an x10fs for a serial cm11.
> Might be even in sources.
I tried to get into x10 stuff about a year ago but I got the impression
that it was obsoleted by infineon and others...  Do they still make/sell
the cm11?  I only have the USB box that also takes wireless commands.
It is useless unless you run the crappy windows software.
Any electronics guys know of a work-a-like open source hardware
implementation of the cm11?  I've got all these x10 modules laying
around....

-Jack

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[Bakul Shah]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 12:08:48 CDT Jack <jack@0x6a.com>  wrote:
> I tried to get into x10 stuff about a year ago but I got the impression
> that it was obsoleted by infineon and others...  Do they still make/sell
> the cm11?  I only have the USB box that also takes wireless commands.

x10 sells the CM15A (checking x10.com I see they have a good
deal for today).  x10 is still cheaper and has many more types
of modules than insteon, zwave or zigbee.  And also the most
unreliable!

> It is useless unless you run the crappy windows software.

There are lots of open source programs. See for instance
http://www.linuxha.com/athome/

> Any electronics guys know of a work-a-like open source hardware
> implementation of the cm11?  I've got all these x10 modules laying
> around....

Not that I am aware of.

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[EBo]

 On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 13:25:29 -0700, Bakul Shah wrote:
> May be an Arduino to measure the resistance and control a
> relay to power a solenoid valve? May be it can talk 9p.
>
> That said, I am very interested in an el-cheapo building block
> that talks 9p over USB and can connect to various sensor
> inputs, D2A and PWM outputs to control steppers etc. It should
> mostly sleep to conserve power. Even nicer if it can be
> wireless. el-cheapo == under $10 in small quantities!

 If you do get a 9p stack working on the Arduino let me know.  If/when
 you do I'll offer to contribute some stepper code that properly deals
 with motor accel/decel, speed limiting, etc.  I may even port a runtime
 polymorphic RS274* (g-code) interpreter I wrote a decade ago for it.
 That would be fun to get a 9p sensor platform up and running.

   EBo --

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[smiley]

EBo <ebo@sandien.com> writes:

> If you do get a 9p stack working on the Arduino let me know.  If/when
> you do I'll offer to contribute some stepper code that properly deals
> with motor accel/decel, speed limiting, etc.  I may even port a
> runtime polymorphic RS274* (g-code) interpreter I wrote a decade ago
> for it.  That would be fun to get a 9p sensor platform up and running.

I was thinking about writing 9P client/servers for Arduino.  Developing
for Arduino is SURPRISINGLY easy--at least on Linux--you just install
the gcc avr cross-compiler and avrdude, untar the Arduino library
source, tweak the Makefile, cut-and-paste some skeleton code, #include
standard stuff you want to use, run make, and use the open source
program avrdude to upload the image to the microcontroller over the FTDI
USB serial interface.  I've done a lot on Linux, and it really suprised
me how straightforward it was programming the Arduino.

I looked around to see if there was a canonical 9P implementation that I
could use as a starting point.  Alas, I found about a brazillian
different implementations, in about as many languages.  If there was
canonical 9P client/serever skeleton code (in C, pseudocode, or some
other language) with "fill-in-your handler" placeholders, it would be
really straightforward to implement 9P clients/servers on Arduino.

...with one caveat, related to underspecification of the 9P protocol,
which I will ask about in a separate thread: "9P specification: minimum
number of fids".

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[ron minnich]

I'm still a big fan of libixp. It's written in a way that I feel is a
good fit if you're used to Plan 9 C style. I've made a number of uses
of it.

ron

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[EBo]

 On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 15:12:04 -0700, ron minnich wrote:
> I'm still a big fan of libixp. It's written in a way that I feel is a
> good fit if you're used to Plan 9 C style. I've made a number of uses
> of it.

 Thanks Ron for the pointer.  I'll take a look at it later since it did
 not build out of the box, but it looks interesting.

   EBo --

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[Joseph Stewart]

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Hey Ron/EBo,

Do y'all have any libixp examples you could share?

-j

On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 6:12 PM, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm still a big fan of libixp. It's written in a way that I feel is a
> good fit if you're used to Plan 9 C style. I've made a number of uses
> of it.
>
> ron
>
>

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Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[ron minnich]

There is server and client code in the repo. We've been using it for
some time now at sandia and other places.

Writing a synthetic to work for libixp is pretty easy.

ron

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[EBo]

 Joseph,

 That would be Ron, not I -- yet anyway, and it will be some time before
 I can break out any time to play with this...  But it looks like Ron has
 some pointers.

 On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 00:50:39 -0400, Joseph Stewart wrote:
> Hey Ron/EBo,
>
> Do y'all have any libixp examples you could share?
>
> -j
>
> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 6:12 PM, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm still a big fan of libixp. It's written in a way that I feel is
>> a
>> good fit if you're used to Plan 9 C style. I've made a number of
>> uses
>> of it.
>>
>> ron
>>
>>

Re: [9fans] Maybe a weird Plan 9 project.

[EBo]

 On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 19:38:55 +0000, smiley@icebubble.org wrote:
> I was thinking about writing 9P client/servers for Arduino.
> Developing
> for Arduino is SURPRISINGLY easy--at least on Linux--you just install
> the gcc avr cross-compiler and avrdude, untar the Arduino library
> source, tweak the Makefile, cut-and-paste some skeleton code,
> #include
> standard stuff you want to use, run make, and use the open source
> program avrdude to upload the image to the microcontroller over the
> FTDI
> USB serial interface.  I've done a lot on Linux, and it really
> suprised
> me how straightforward it was programming the Arduino.

 I had some trouble in the past with the cross-compilation tools, but I
 have not had time to do anything fun like this for a year or two.  Back
 before that I had 6+ compilers installed for cross platform work, and it
 was a bit twitchy.  Other than getting them all installed, yes they were
 easy to use.

> I looked around to see if there was a canonical 9P implementation
> that I
> could use as a starting point.  Alas, I found about a brazillian
> different implementations, in about as many languages.  If there was
> canonical 9P client/serever skeleton code (in C, pseudocode, or some
> other language) with "fill-in-your handler" placeholders, it would be
> really straightforward to implement 9P clients/servers on Arduino.

 I know that Eric recently submitted some 9p stuff up stream to the
 kernel folks.  I would start by looking at npfs's source
 <http://sourceforge.net/projects/npfs/> -- which BTW, provides a 9p file
 system on Linux.

 Seriously though, if you start working on an Arduino client let me know
 and I'll help if time and legal constraints allow.

   EBo --