Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[cinap_lenrek]

> Given a working fileserver config, I want something that does
> 'user=foo; nobootpromt=bar', but with a (say) five second timeout.
> This is different from the current scheme that provides an escape,
> but which requires manual intervention.  What I'm looking for is a
> timed-out option from the 'nobootprompt=' config, that lets me
> override, but only if I'm right there.

> It's the same as how (e.g. FreeBSD) lets you interrupt the boot
> process and muck about.  But if you don't, it times out and boots
> the 'default' configuration.

err... thats precisely how it works. the ONLY difference is that the
timeout is hardcoded to ONE second see: /sys/src/boot/pc/sub.c:304

so your plan9.ini is the default config. and you hit any key during
that timeout window, you get to the bootloader console where you can
edit the plan9.ini variables (in ram). you can remove variables with
the clear command, so you can get rid of nobootprompt. its all
documented in 9boot(8).

--
cinap

Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[Lyndon Nerenberg]

> err... thats precisely how it works. the ONLY difference is that the
> timeout is hardcoded to ONE second see: /sys/src/boot/pc/sub.c:304

ONE second, eh?  I need to become much younger again ;-)

Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[Lyndon Nerenberg]

cinap_lenrek@felloff.net writes:
> err... thats precisely how it works. the ONLY difference is that the
> timeout is hardcoded to ONE second see: /sys/src/boot/pc/sub.c:304

Fine, but a ONE second timeout is insane.  And it's NOT at all
clearly documented in the 9boot(8) manpage.

How about a FOUR second timeout, and some manpage patches?

Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[Kurt H Maier]

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 05:33:07PM -0700, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
>
> How about a FOUR second timeout, and some manpage patches?
>

I object to quadrupling the timeout.  I am old and my eyesight sucks and
one second is perfectly sane.

khm

Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[Lyndon Nerenberg]

> I object to quadrupling the timeout.  I am old and my eyesight sucks and
> one second is perfectly sane.

Shut the refrigerator door! You're running up long distance charges!!!

Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[hiro]

it doesn't matter how old you are cause you need no low reaction time
here, you can just start mashing a key multiple times per second,
starting slightly earlier than the prompts would appear

Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[hiro]

hell. i have to do *exactly* the same with same dimension of timeouts
slightly earlier for my bios to be allowed to select my boot disk,
too. it's a totally common mechanism.

windows bootloader also always had that behavior for their
recovery/boot menus, just that you have to be more careful actually,
to use the correct key.

Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[Ethan Gardener]

9front boots via an initrd with a script, doesn't it? That script could be modified to present a menu/prompt, perhaps only if a certain variable is set in plan9.ini.


On Sat, Apr 20, 2019, at 2:42 AM, hiro wrote:
> hell. i have to do *exactly* the same with same dimension of timeouts
> slightly earlier for my bios to be allowed to select my boot disk,
> too. it's a totally common mechanism.

I hate all boot-time time-outs! I can understand why they exist, but at times my health makes them dreadful to actually use. Even when my health is good, it becomes a trial when rebooting repeatedly. A prompt helps, especially with hardware which refuses to recognize keys held down when the keyboard is initialized. I guess that's no longer common, but it was a horrible problem with the old hardware I had in the 90s. Then there was the problem where Lilo's prompt wouldn't display until 2 or 3 seconds into the timeout. I'm still not sure whether that was a problem with Lilo or the display hardware.

Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[hiro]

if you know how to get into your system's bios you should be able to
use the same technique to get to our prompt...

i like that 9front has no silly menu

Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[Lucio De Re]

On 4/21/19, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> i like that 9front has no silly menu
>
And that says it all. De gustibus...

To me, that seems a lot like farting against thunder, but I have yet
to find a timeout/countdown that I can latch onto. But less than three
seconds means that any distraction is likely to bite one in the ass.

Lucio.

Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[hiro]

there's a whole operating system to play with, and all you are busy
with is complaining that 9front doesn't have a grub theme.

i will repeat cinap here, cause it seems like realizes there are real
solutions provided:
> or you start the kernel from another kernel using the
> reboot!kernelpath!method... on the bootargs prompt.

you can do this from a GRAPHICAL system, from inside rio for example,
or even make your own GUI.

Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[Lucio De Re]

On 4/21/19, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote:
> there's a whole operating system to play with, and all you are busy
> with is complaining that 9front doesn't have a grub theme.
>
Now, having vented my spleen and deleted it (twice, now), let me just
say: Really?!

Lucio.

Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[hiro]

thanks for letting us take part in your spleen. very much appreciated. really!

Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[cinap_lenrek]

yes, patches are welcome. if you prefer longer timeout,
you know what code to change now.

--
cinap

Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[Lyndon Nerenberg]

cinap_lenrek@felloff.net writes:
> the bootloader has a console where you can change any
> plan9.ini parameter, including bootfile=. read 9boot(8).

I described this badly. Let me try again.

Given a working fileserver config, I want something that does
'user=foo; nobootpromt=bar', but with a (say) five second timeout.
This is different from the current scheme that provides an escape,
but which requires manual intervention.  What I'm looking for is a
timed-out option from the 'nobootprompt=' config, that lets me
override, but only if I'm right there.

It's the same as how (e.g. FreeBSD) lets you interrupt the boot
process and muck about.  But if you don't, it times out and boots
the 'default' configuration.

Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[cinap_lenrek]

the bootloader has a console where you can change any
plan9.ini parameter, including bootfile=. read 9boot(8).

if you really want menus in the bootloader, you can also
load the kernel directly with some other multiboot capable
bootloader.

or you start the kernel from another kernel using the
reboot!kernelpath!method... on the bootargs prompt.

--
cinap

Re: [9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[Nick Owens]

there's always the GRand Unified Bootloader.

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 3:16 PM Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon@orthanc.ca> wrote:
>
> Something I miss in 9front is the 'boot menu' functionality 9labs
> had in plan9.ini.  Being able to fall back to an alternative config
> was a godsend when debugging fileserver setups.  I'm curious why
> that was removed from the 9front bootstrap code.
>
> --lyndon
>

[9fans] The lost (9front) boot menus ...

[Lyndon Nerenberg]

Something I miss in 9front is the 'boot menu' functionality 9labs
had in plan9.ini.  Being able to fall back to an alternative config
was a godsend when debugging fileserver setups.  I'm curious why
that was removed from the 9front bootstrap code.

--lyndon