[9fans] Questions about translating Plan 9 license

[9fans] Questions about translating Plan 9 license

[Andrey S. Kukhar]

Hello friends,
I want to translate Plan 9 documentation into russian and create
web-project, which will include these and other russian translations.
I have found a person, who can translate PLAN 9 OPEN SOURCE LICENSE
AGREEMENT.
But she (this person) have some questions about translating:
1. When she work on translation licenses, as a rule, she appears
questions to author (developer) this license, in respect of special
term and miscellaneous in particular. In this instance to whom she
will be able to address from Lucent Technologies with similar questions?
2. As you know, translations GNU GPL are unofficial. What status will
get this translation.

--
regards,
-ask

[9fans] Re: Questions about translating Plan 9 license

[Jim Choate]

On Sat, 11 May 2002, Andrey S. Kukhar wrote:

> Hello friends,
> I want to translate Plan 9 documentation into russian and create
> web-project, which will include these and other russian translations.
> I have found a person, who can translate PLAN 9 OPEN SOURCE LICENSE
> AGREEMENT.
> But she (this person) have some questions about translating:
> 1. When she work on translation licenses, as a rule, she appears
> questions to author (developer) this license, in respect of special
> term and miscellaneous in particular. In this instance to whom she
> will be able to address from Lucent Technologies with similar questions?
> 2. As you know, translations GNU GPL are unofficial. What status will
> get this translation.

If you need some proofing I can probably help if the documents are short.
I'd definitely like to get a copy of the resultant when completed.

Spaciba moi drug.


 --
    ____________________________________________________________________

         The law is applied philosophy and a philosphical system is
         only as valid as its first principles.

                                James Patrick Kelly - "Wildlife"

     ravage@ssz.com                                         www.ssz.com
     jchoate@open-forge.org                          www.open-forge.org
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

[9fans] Re: Questions about translating Plan 9 license

[Andrey S. Kukhar]

Saturday, May 11, 2002, 5:07:29 PM, Jim Choate wrote:
> If you need some proofing I can probably help if the documents are short.
> I'd definitely like to get a copy of the resultant when completed.

> Spaciba moi drug.

Do you really want help me with translating documents?
What documents named ``short''?

Pozaluysta friend

--
wishes,
-ask

[9fans] Re: Questions about translating Plan 9 license

[Jim Choate]

On Sat, 11 May 2002, Andrey S. Kukhar wrote:

> Saturday, May 11, 2002, 5:07:29 PM, Jim Choate wrote:
> > If you need some proofing I can probably help if the documents are short.
> > I'd definitely like to get a copy of the resultant when completed.
>
> > Spaciba moi drug.
>
> Do you really want help me with translating documents?

Da, ya doljoi intristyil (I think I got that transliteration close to
right ;)

I am certainly interested in other languages. I took a Russian translation
course about 20 years ago and still dabble in reading it (with the help of
a dictionary). My verbal and written skills are very poor however, lack of
practice. Russian, Spanish, German, & French I have some small(!)
experience with. One of the attractions of Plan 9 for me was the ability
to have Angliski and Russki at the same time. I do this in Windows  using
a 3rd party utility. Can't get Linux to really do it right (at least from
my view).

I have a friend who is a professional translater so I do have somebody to
go to local for some problems and such.

> What documents named ``short''?

A license agreement or something similar. A couple/few of pages. I could
proof something like that in a week or two. At my skill level and time
constraints I wouldn't be able to do anything more than a couple of pages
a week, max.

Are you familiar with Open Forge and Hangar 18?

http://open-forge.org

I could/would certainly be interested in starting a mailing list to handle
translations of Open Source material (not just Plan 9). This sounds like a
good way to prime the pump to me.

> Pozaluysta friend

Da Svidanya.


 --
    ____________________________________________________________________

         The law is applied philosophy and a philosphical system is
         only as valid as its first principles.

                                James Patrick Kelly - "Wildlife"

     ravage@ssz.com                                         www.ssz.com
     jchoate@open-forge.org                          www.open-forge.org
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

[9fans] Re: Questions about translating Plan 9 license

[Andrey S. Kukhar]

Saturday, May 11, 2002, 11:25:40 PM, Jim Choate wrote:

> Are you familiar with Open Forge and Hangar 18?
> http://open-forge.org

Yes, i read some introduction docs and i like them.

> I could/would certainly be interested in starting a mailing list to handle
> translations of Open Source material (not just Plan 9). This sounds like a
> good way to prime the pump to me.

As for me, i interests in translations into russian. There are many
russian translations Open Source material in the NET, but Plan 9
translations are don`t avialable. And i want to advance them. I hope that
this translations will help russian speakers to learn and understand OS
Plan 9 better.

I just translated "Installing the Plan 9 distribution" (with "Installation
instructions") and i have found translation "Plan 9 from Bell Labs". All
other documents (short and long) are now avialable for translating.

--
wishes,
-ask

[9fans] Re: Questions about translating Plan 9 license

[Jim Choate]

Man, you've got a busted mailer...I'm 9fans now...ain't that special ;)

On Sun, 12 May 2002, Andrey S. Kukhar wrote:

> As for me, i interests in translations into russian.

And that's it? Hmmm, I'm not as interested as I was.

> There are many russian translations Open Source material in the NET

That's interesting, can't say I've found scads of it. Mind providing some
pointers? Feel free to send them off-list as this probably isn't Plan 9
focused.

>, but Plan 9 translations are don`t avialable. And i want to advance them.

Ah, I'm interested in advancing Open/Free IP approaches, no interest in
OS/License wars at all. My goal is to attract a small cadre os folks with
poly-linguistic skills and get them to work on something longer term. For
example, when one set of dox (eg Plan 9) is completed they'd move on to
another set of dox (eg unununium). I'm looking for 'openness of
communication' as equivalent to 'openness of technology' ala Open Source.
It would be a great chance to work on Open Source language translation.

> I just translated "Installing the Plan 9 distribution" (with "Installation
> instructions") and i have found translation "Plan 9 from Bell Labs". All
> other documents (short and long) are now avialable for translating.

If you would like to use Open Forge as an archive it is available.

But there is no process to manage 'what' and 'when'. This is entirely too
unmanaged to be successfull in a reasonable time frame. If you come up
with some sort of plan to organize this process let me know. I'll
reconsider helping. But if it's left up to a ad hoc conglomeration of
Russki/Angliski Plan 9 users then it will fail and the dox will never be
translated in full. That's a pity, and I'm willing to do something about
it, but I'm not willing to take on the whole thing. Can't save the world
so to speak.

Zhyladyu udahchi, da Svidanya.


 --
    ____________________________________________________________________

         The law is applied philosophy and a philosphical system is
         only as valid as its first principles.

                                James Patrick Kelly - "Wildlife"

     ravage@ssz.com                                         www.ssz.com
     jchoate@open-forge.org                          www.open-forge.org
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

[9fans] Re: [hangar18-general] Re: Questions about translating Plan 9 license

[Chris Nystrom]

On Sat, 11 May 2002, Jim Choate wrote:

> I could/would certainly be interested in starting a mailing list to handle
> translations of Open Source material (not just Plan 9). This sounds like a
> good way to prime the pump to me.

Why not use babelfish (http://babelfish.altavista.com/) to do a sort of
alpha version of a translation to get started, and you could post it, and
people could be amused and then submit corrections and the document could
be improved from there on an evolutionary basis?

Chris
ccn@olenska.hn.org

Re: [9fans] Re: [hangar18-general] Re: Questions about translating Plan 9 license

[Boyd Roberts]

Chris Nystrom wrote:
> Why not use babelfish (http://babelfish.altavista.com/) to do a sort of
> alpha version of a translation to get started, and you could post it, and
> people could be amused and then submit corrections and the document could
> be improved from there on an evolutionary basis?

The trouble would be that machine translation would obliterate the original
meaning, rendering such stepwise refinement useless.  Machine translation is
difficult enough for fairly ordinary constructs and translation of technical
documents is considerably harder.

If we take the above paragraph and transmogrify it into French (with babelfish):

    Pourquoi est-ce que pas le babelfish d'utilisation

Word for word dictionary translation, where 'pourquoi pas utiliser le
babelfish ...' would be better.

    (http://babelfish.altavista.com/) une sorte de
    version d'alpha d'une traduction obtiennent
    commencée,

More dictionary stuff with d[e]'... constructs and weird use of the 3rd person
plural [obtiennent] in some attempt at the passive?

    et vous pourrait la signaler,

Is this strange use of the conditional 'qqn vous pourrait' or 'vous pourriez'?
It's probably the latter, because of 'pourrait la signaler'.

    et les gens pourraient-ils s'amuser et soumettre alors les
    corrections et le document pourrait-elle être
    améliorée de là sur une base évolutionnaire?

Total gender confusion with 'le document' suddenly being smashed into
use as a feminine noun by 'pourrait-elle être améliorée', complete with
gratuitous verbosity.

The whole thing is just unreadable.

Mark V Shaney could probably do a better job.

Re: [9fans] Re: Questions about translating Plan 9 license

[Dan Cross]

> Good idea. Much better results will be achieved with
> http://translation2.paralink.com as babelfish's idea of Russian is very
> poor.

Why not even put the translated version on the Wiki, as well?

	- Dan C.