From: "Christopher Nielsen" <cnielsen@pobox.com>
To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@cse.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: Building GCC
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 03:24:04 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <e0ac85f90801240324n684faf30x52bc60187f5162e8@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <op.t5flp1uyopm8aj@a8js-5b570fef4b>
Some of us see your point. :-)
On Jan 24, 2008 3:19 AM, Paulo Pocinho <pocinho@gmail.com> wrote:
> Em Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:41:02 -0000, <pavlovetsky@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
> > Returning to my main point: it is productive to let many Plan 9
> > appearances to be. If you insist on developing the core technologies
> > and push forward ideas - fine.
> (...)
> > I really can understand the reason why people object porting things to
> > Plan 9. It is like making bazaar in a cathedral, right? This, I think,
> > means to force the operating system to stay in research form for the
> > sake of computer scientists themselves! Lets drop web browser and KDE
> > for a while and say this: there are cool, interactive scientific
> > visualisation tools I would like to use along with fossil+venti
> > infrastructure and Plan 9 tools and I would like to see them
> > integrated with each other really well. As I said, it is absolutely
> > impossible to reinvent everything again, so the question is how to
> > integrate the already existing applications for UNIX and Plan 9. I
> > vote for emulation.
>
> It's not a question of "reinvent". Let me explain.
>
> I see Plan 9 as a proof of concept that popular technology is obsolete.
> Every time I talk to someone about it, there is always some orthodox
> defensive.
> Why?
> Are people blind by the apparent smoothness of a popular system because
> it has everything one could expect?
>
> IMO, people should have distance and figure out if there is really
> something that should be "reinvented".
> Read about why Ken hated tcp when he tried to implement it.
> And I can't stop wondering why DMR uses w*ndo*s.
> Whatever the reasons, it really doesn't matter. Does it?
>
> If I can imagine seeing things from a Plan 9 user perspective, and
> something really bothers me because I am amused to see some youtube
> flash, something ought to be wrong.
>
> The system works - nicely. So where's the catch?
> Is it because Plan 9 users should want/need/miss pop tech in a system
> where everything is state of the art technology?
> No.
> It is because the first time anyone uses Plan 9 there is this feeling,
> a gasp in awe, everything is so simple that makes out brain ache.
> We have been brought up spoiled in a pop tech world.
> If we want/need/miss anything it is not from pop tech. It is from Plan 9.
>
> There is no need to "reinvent". It's all in there.
>
> (Again, I have that airy feeling that some won't see the point I made
> and think I am going in a circle.)
>
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--
Christopher Nielsen
"They who can give up essential liberty for temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2008-01-24 11:24 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 124+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2008-01-20 20:08 [9fans] " Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-20 20:57 ` andrey mirtchovski
2008-01-20 21:05 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-20 22:22 ` Federico G. Benavento
2008-01-20 23:41 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-20 23:44 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-20 23:47 ` benavento
2008-01-20 23:50 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-21 14:09 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-21 14:39 ` erik quanstrom
2008-01-21 15:01 ` Kernel Panic
2008-01-21 16:02 ` Brantley Coile
2008-01-21 20:54 ` Steve Simon
2008-01-21 21:58 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-21 22:47 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-21 22:59 ` erik quanstrom
2008-01-21 23:25 ` Fazlul Shahriar
2008-01-21 23:31 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-22 0:39 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-22 12:15 ` Russ Cox
2008-01-22 12:38 ` Harri Haataja
2008-01-22 13:09 ` lucio
2008-01-22 15:03 ` erik quanstrom
2008-01-22 15:37 ` Brantley Coile
2008-01-23 9:35 ` [9fans] " pavlovetsky
2008-01-23 11:15 ` Harri Haataja
2008-01-24 9:41 ` pavlovetsky
2008-01-24 10:05 ` Steve Simon
2008-01-24 10:44 ` benavento
2008-01-24 15:05 ` erik quanstrom
2008-01-24 15:14 ` benavento
2008-01-24 15:51 ` lucio
2008-01-24 18:12 ` benavento
2008-01-25 9:55 ` pavlovetsky
2008-01-24 16:55 ` Uriel
2008-01-24 11:19 ` Paulo Pocinho
2008-01-24 11:24 ` Christopher Nielsen [this message]
2008-01-24 11:48 ` Paulo Pocinho
2008-01-24 12:46 ` mattmobile
2008-01-24 13:23 ` Paulo Pocinho
2008-01-24 15:37 ` lucio
2008-01-24 18:04 ` ron minnich
2008-01-24 18:06 ` andrey mirtchovski
2008-01-24 18:15 ` erik quanstrom
2008-01-24 18:19 ` lucio
2008-01-24 18:38 ` Paulo Pocinho
2008-01-24 18:44 ` lucio
2008-01-24 19:01 ` lucio
2008-01-24 18:50 ` Joel C. Salomon
2008-01-24 19:04 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-24 21:52 ` Russ Cox
2008-01-25 9:56 ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2008-01-25 12:19 ` Martin Neubauer
2008-01-24 13:38 ` tlaronde
2008-01-23 14:17 ` Iruata Souza
2008-01-23 16:13 ` ron minnich
2008-01-23 16:57 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-23 17:36 ` Iruata Souza
2008-01-23 18:26 ` Uriel
2008-01-24 9:59 ` sqweek
2008-01-24 17:21 ` lucio
2008-01-24 18:04 ` erik quanstrom
2008-01-24 18:21 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-24 18:37 ` lucio
2008-01-24 22:16 ` Gary Wright
2008-01-25 2:47 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-25 3:21 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-25 6:08 ` lucio
2008-01-24 18:52 ` erik quanstrom
2008-01-24 19:09 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-24 19:27 ` erik quanstrom
2008-01-24 19:38 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-24 21:26 ` Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente
2008-01-25 9:55 ` pavlovetsky
2008-01-25 14:14 ` Iruata Souza
2008-01-25 14:26 ` Brantley Coile
2008-01-25 17:49 ` Bakul Shah
2008-01-25 18:09 ` lucio
2008-01-25 18:29 ` John Floren
2008-01-25 19:12 ` lucio
2008-01-25 19:38 ` Bakul Shah
2008-01-25 20:04 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2008-01-26 2:28 ` dave.l
2008-01-26 3:08 ` John Floren
2008-01-26 3:17 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-28 3:11 ` erik quanstrom
2008-01-28 3:34 ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2008-01-25 18:32 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-25 18:15 ` erik quanstrom
2008-01-25 18:30 ` lucio
2008-01-25 18:17 ` Roman Shaposhnik
2008-01-25 18:19 ` John Floren
2008-01-25 14:35 ` [9fans] importing web browsers (was Building GCC) Charles Forsyth
2008-01-25 14:45 ` Iruata Souza
2008-01-25 17:50 ` lucio
2008-01-26 15:47 ` Iruata Souza
2008-01-26 15:50 ` Iruata Souza
2008-01-25 16:17 ` [9fans] Re: Building GCC pavlovetsky
2008-01-25 18:04 ` lucio
2008-01-26 15:29 ` Iruata Souza
2008-01-24 19:13 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-24 19:18 ` lucio
2008-01-24 19:26 ` erik quanstrom
2008-01-25 9:56 ` pavlovetsky
2008-01-25 11:21 ` lucio
2008-01-25 14:07 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-25 18:43 ` [9fans] Higher level document rendering and editing (Was: Building GCC) lucio
2008-01-28 10:04 ` [9fans] Re: Higher level document rendering and editing (Was pavlovetsky
2008-01-28 10:36 ` Federico G. Benavento
2008-01-24 18:23 ` [9fans] Re: Building GCC lucio
2008-01-25 10:00 ` pavlovetsky
2008-01-22 17:15 ` [9fans] " Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-22 18:19 ` Iruata Souza
2008-01-22 18:28 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-01-22 18:37 ` Iruata Souza
2008-01-22 13:26 ` John Stalker
2008-01-22 16:35 ` ron minnich
2008-01-22 17:00 ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2008-01-22 17:07 ` erik quanstrom
2008-01-22 17:18 ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2008-01-22 17:25 ` ron minnich
2008-01-22 17:46 ` erik quanstrom
2008-01-22 17:07 ` erik quanstrom
2008-01-22 17:15 ` ron minnich
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