Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license

Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license

[ot]

> Ugh. I feel like Charlie Brown. ``Why's everybody always
> picking on me?''

good grief.

> Really? Why? Can you point out something specific I said that
> you think is ignorant? Perhaps that I expressed doubt in the
> OpenBSD team? That's only after eight years of watching the
> various BSD projects go about doing what they do.

it sounds like you either have some personal beef with the
development team, or no experience with BSD unix. the openbsd
team should be commended for their hard work, their os is one
of the best choices out there.

> If you disagree with my impression that's fine, but my opinion
> stands.

opinions that are not based on fact don't count.



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Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license

[Dan Cross]

> > Ugh. I feel like Charlie Brown. ``Why's everybody always
> > picking on me?''
>
> good grief.

Heh.  Good one.

> > Really? Why? Can you point out something specific I said that
> > you think is ignorant? Perhaps that I expressed doubt in the
> > OpenBSD team? That's only after eight years of watching the
> > various BSD projects go about doing what they do.
>
> it sounds like you either have some personal beef with the
> development team, or no experience with BSD unix. the openbsd
> team should be commended for their hard work, their os is one
> of the best choices out there.

I think you missed the part where I talked about 8 years of watching
the various BSD projects.  I didn't mention using BSD on various RISC
and CISC machines prior to the introduction of the `free' varients.  I
actually have quite a lot of experience with BSD Unix, having run it
almost exclusively for about five years on various hardware platforms.
What I saw was the systems become more complex, more bloated, and more
difficult to maintain; often gratuitously so.  Then the developers
patted themselves on the back.  No progress there; everyone had
forgotten the lessons they learned in the 70's and early 80's.

Having looked at the source code for OpenBSD, I'm hessitant to
commend them for their hard work.  They do work hard, but they'd be
better off if they worked smarter instead.  Also, OpenBSD might be
one of the best choices for OS's out there (why?) but in a field
starved for competition, that's not saying too much.

But this is all rather far afield from Plan 9.

> > If you disagree with my impression that's fine, but my opinion
> > stands.
>
> opinions that are not based on fact don't count.

As stated above, the opinions are based on fact; often facts that
predate Net/2.  I could site specific examples, if you like; feel free
to ping me off the list about them.

	- Dan C.

Re: [9fans] The new ridiculous license

[boyd, rounin]

what did dennis say once?

    unix retarded o/s development by 10 years

    linux retarded o/s development by 20 years

iirc

Re: [9fans] dennis quote?

[matt]

boyd, rounin wrote:

>what did dennis say once?
>
>    unix retarded o/s development by 10 years
>
>    linux retarded o/s development by 20 years
>

although said does anyone have a decent link, I'm /. trolling and could
use the ammunition 8)

Re: [9fans] dennis quote?

[boyd, rounin]

> although said does anyone have a decent link, I'm /. trolling and could
> use the ammunition 8)

i can't remember whether i read it or i heard him say it.

Re: [9fans] dennis quote?

[matt]

boyd, rounin wrote:

>>i can't remember whether i read it or i heard him say it.
>>


Dennis, can you say it again please?

Feel free to add a few more while you're at it 8)

Re: [9fans] dennis quote?

[Clint Olsen]

In article <3F004596.2030407@proweb.co.uk>, matt wrote:
> boyd, rounin wrote:
>
>>what did dennis say once?
>>
>>    unix retarded o/s development by 10 years
>>
>>    linux retarded o/s development by 20 years
>>
>
> although said does anyone have a decent link, I'm /. trolling and could
> use the ammunition 8)

It sort of begs the question: What did Windows do? :)

-Clint

Re: [9fans] dennis quote?

[Anthony Mandic]

Clint Olsen wrote:

> >>what did dennis say once?
> >>
> >>    unix retarded o/s development by 10 years
> >>
> >>    linux retarded o/s development by 20 years
> 
> It sort of begs the question: What did Windows do? :)

	It doesn't do anything. Its too retarded.

-am	© 2003

Re: [9fans] dennis quote?

[Keith Nash]

> boyd, rounin wrote:
> >what did dennis say once?
> >
> >    unix retarded o/s development by 10 years
> >
> >    linux retarded o/s development by 20 years
>
> although said does anyone have a decent link, I'm /. trolling and could
> use the ammunition 8)

I too recall reading this remark, but with the figure of *30* years for the retardation of o/s *research* due to Linux; I also think the remark was attributed to Rob Pike, but I never saw the "original".  The remark is not mentioned in the slides for his talk "Systems Software Research is Irrelevant"
[ http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/rob/utah2000.ps ]
but would fit neatly with slides 17 and 18.

I don't know how much MS Windows retarded o/s research, but it set back documentation by 140 years: in common with Babbage's Difference Engine, the most useful instructions are provided by third parties:
[ http://ed-thelen.org/bab/bab-intro.html ]

Keith.