Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

Had a little play with slackwaree 11.0 in Linuxemu. It mostly works,
the buggest problem may be bash 3.0 which can't export environment
variables. Note the underlying 9front system hasn't been upgraded since
December.

pkgtools
	* installpkg appears to run correctly but it's noticeable some
	  work is not done; e.g. there is no gcc symlink and firefox's
	  launcher script languishes in /usr/lib/firefox-foo. Probably
	  related to bash's env var issues.
	* tar-13.1 (included) fails to unpack files. Installpkg
	  complains if /bin/tar-13.1 is not present, but functions
	  better without than with.

bash (3.0)
	* Prompts, executes commands, for loops, wildcard expansion,
	  and history (in xterm) correctly.
	* Fails to export environment variables.
	* May have some other problem with variables;
	  configure fails to recognize it as a posix shell based on a
	  test with a lot of variables.
	* ddoouubblleess every character entered at the prompt in rio
	  and acme windows. This is purely cosmetic. Does not happen in
	  xterm.

ash
	* Prompts, executes commands, and history (in xterm) correctly.
	* ddoouubblleess every character entered at the prompt in rio
	  and acme windows. This is purely cosmetic. Does not happen in
	  xterm.

xterm
	* Displays and scrolls command-line data correctly.
	* Dialog appears to run correctly within it. (--yesno tested)
	* Less does not.
	* Takes a second to exit.

WindowMaker and WPrefs.app
	* WM Functions as correctly as it ever did.
	* WPrefs works.

Firefox (1.5)
	* Generally functions as expected but cannot load some pages
	  which Mothra can, and can't load any of the pages I really
	  want which don't work in Mothra anyway. ;)

xz
	* could not compile; failed to configure (see bash).

opera (11.62)
	* outputs 1 line to stderr: Killed. Not really unexpected with
	  such an old libc.

opera (9.52, gcc-2.95, static)
	* Works correctly! Or at least, it works better than that old
	  Firefox.

To do:
	* Test environment variables in ash. If pass, attempt to use ash
	  as /bin/sh and retry package installation and configure
	  scripts. Also retry Opera 11.
	* See if some change to /etc/inputrc could fix the doubling.

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[sl]

> It mostly works

Great work!

This past week I experimented again with the old Debian Sarge mroot
and Opera 9.50. The occasional crashes and freeze-ups are still too
annoying to tolerate. It would be interesting to compare performance
between different mroots.

On a tangentially related note:

Google breaking compatibility with non- javascript enabled browsers
seems like a good jumping off point for those of us still using their
services. Viewing in mothra continues to be a decent measure of how
essential the contents of a given website really are.

I'm staring directly at you, tumblr.

-sl

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 14:02:53 +0000
sl@9front.org wrote:

> > It mostly works
> 
> Great work!
> 
> This past week I experimented again with the old Debian Sarge mroot
> and Opera 9.50. The occasional crashes and freeze-ups are still too
> annoying to tolerate. It would be interesting to compare performance
> between different mroots.
> 
> On a tangentially related note:
> 
> Google breaking compatibility with non- javascript enabled browsers
> seems like a good jumping off point for those of us still using their
> services. Viewing in mothra continues to be a decent measure of how
> essential the contents of a given website really are.
> 
> I'm staring directly at you, tumblr.
> 
> -sl

haha! yeah.. The websites I really wanted that wouldn't work in mothra
are only comics, but I think it may be a cookie issue rather than a
javascript one. The pages load but the images are replaced with "No
hotlinking allowed." Another site is a forum which has obviously been
styled with a complete disregard for how it looks sans css, and then
there's another forum which is as good as a forum can be, except for
the fact that I can't post, which I've mentioned in IRC a while back. I
definitely shouldn't be viewing that forum. ;)

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[cinap_lenrek]

oh, webfs doesnt send a referer. might that be the problem?

--
cinap

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[cinap_lenrek]

you can try with something like:

hget -r 'Referer: http://example.com/' http://example.com/foo.jpg

to see if the problem is the missing referer header.

implementing referers woul'v been the task of mothra, but i'm not
sure if referers are a good idea even given how mutch it is abused
for spam and user tracking these days.

--
cinap

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 22:51:40 +0200
cinap_lenrek@gmx.de wrote:

> you can try with something like:
> 
> hget -r 'Referer: http://example.com/' http://example.com/foo.jpg
> 
> to see if the problem is the missing referer header.
> 
> implementing referers woul'v been the task of mothra, but i'm not
> sure if referers are a good idea even given how mutch it is abused
> for spam and user tracking these days.
> 
> --
> cinap

Ah, that's it exactly. I wonder if webfs or mothra could add headers
on a site-specific basis, perhaps passing every url to a script and
incorporating what the script gives back or loading a table of <regexp>
<headers> at startup.

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[sl]

> I wonder if webfs or mothra could add headers
> on a site-specific basis, perhaps passing every url to a script and
> incorporating what the script gives back or loading a table of <regexp>
> <headers> at startup.

Something like pipeto?

-sl

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[cinap_lenrek]

referers are optional. if the site doesnt work without it, its
broken. spoofing referer seems even more crazy. the only sane
thing todo would be just implementing referers in mothra and
have a way to disable it.

--
cinap

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 22:09:39 +0000
sl@9front.org wrote:

> > I wonder if webfs or mothra could add headers
> > on a site-specific basis, perhaps passing every url to a script and
> > incorporating what the script gives back or loading a table of <regexp>
> > <headers> at startup.
> 
> Something like pipeto?
> 
> -sl

Never heard of it. I was thinking Mothra or webfs would run a script
for each url and get headers to add, either giving the url on the
command line or to script's stdin and reading the headers from the
script's stdout. It could run one long-running script too, say an awk
script which took urls on stdin, but that would be less good if you
wanted to alter the script. Actually a long-running script could have a
reload mechanism easily enough... *shrugs* everything is possible.

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[cinap_lenrek]

this is right out crazy. web damaging brain.

--
cinap

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[hiro]

dillo for example just sends the base address (before the first / ) as
referrer on all web sites IIRC.

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 00:58:54 +0200
cinap_lenrek@gmx.de wrote:

> referers are optional. if the site doesnt work without it, its
> broken. spoofing referer seems even more crazy. the only sane
> thing todo would be just implementing referers in mothra and
> have a way to disable it.
> 
> --
> cinap

I could try requesting the site owners find another method of
hotlinking protection. The affected sites are both on Comic Genesis,
which probably implements it server-wide. I could even point out no
other comic sites need the referer, if they need a push. (Maybe other
sites use cookies for the same.)

Alternatively, perhaps mothra could add a referrer only when the domain
is the same (or maybe a subdomain).

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[cinap_lenrek]

interesting. this would mean it could even work from hget...

--
cinap

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 01:13:31 +0200
hiro <23hiro@googlemail.com> wrote:

> dillo for example just sends the base address (before the first / ) as
> referrer on all web sites IIRC.

Ah just what I suggested 5 minutes later.

And noted, Cinap. :D I'll admit it didn't feel right.

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[Anthony Martin]

hiro <23hiro@googlemail.com> once said:
> dillo for example just sends the base address (before the first / ) as
> referrer on all web sites IIRC.

This is how I have Firefox set up on Unix.
It seems to work for every site I've ever
visited.

  Anthony

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[sl]

> pipeto

From nedmail(1):

/mail/box/*/pipeto       mail filter

There are some examples provided with the upas source:

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/upas/filterkit/

-sl

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[Kurt H Maier]

On Tue, Apr 03, 2012 at 12:18:11AM +0100, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
> 
> I could try requesting the site owners find another method of
> hotlinking protection. The affected sites are both on Comic Genesis,

if they don't want people to access the shit why are they putting it on
the web

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 19:47:30 -0400
Kurt H Maier <khm@intma.in> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 03, 2012 at 12:18:11AM +0100, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
> > 
> > I could try requesting the site owners find another method of
> > hotlinking protection. The affected sites are both on Comic Genesis,
> 
> if they don't want people to access the shit why are they putting it on
> the web

I think it's just a matter of bandwidth practicality, or maybe ad
revenue and paying for the servers, although CG's admins don't have
the nicest reputation. At least they don't have js crap trying to stop
you saving the images. 

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[cinap_lenrek]

could you give an actual example url so one can try if the suggested
referer spoof using just the base url as referer works?

--
cinap

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[cinap_lenrek]

ok, implemented that in webfs. just tested with some comicgenesis.com
sites and it seems to work fine so far.

hg and icecast seem to be unaffected by the referer :)

--
cinap

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 08:03:18 +0200
cinap_lenrek@gmx.de wrote:

> could you give an actual example url so one can try if the suggested
> referer spoof using just the base url as referer works?
> 
> --
> cinap

sure. images on:
http://mansionofe.comicgenesis.com/

or more specifically:
http://mansionofe.comicgenesis.com/comics/20120403.png
http://mansionofe.comicgenesis.com/comics/20120402.png
etc.

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[steve]

i did quite a bit of work on linuxemu last year but never got it to a stage where i was happy to generally release it. for me, working with debian, the improved linuxemu will now work
happily with the current debian distribution; i have not tried slackware.

the most controversial change was in the handling of special files, which i flag using
a combination of plan9's append and exclusive bits, rather than cinap's choice of using
an escaped "special" filename.

the change makes open, stat, and wstat cheaper as the file you a moifying is easily found,
however it does mean you have to use mkfs/extfs of linux'tar to move files about, plan9's tar
will not do as it does not understand these extra mode flags.

there are many other changes including a symlink cache, and wider linux systemcall coverage.

i use this daily at work for svn and ghostscript, and opera but i haven't tried much else,
what i have tried does work.

you are welcome to try mycode which is in /n/sources/contrib/linuxemu.tgz, though
i cannot help much at the moment as i am on holiday.

-steve

On 2 Apr 2012, at 02:53 PM, Ethan Grammatikidis <eekee57@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> Had a little play with slackwaree 11.0 in Linuxemu. It mostly works,
> the buggest problem may be bash 3.0 which can't export environment
> variables. Note the underlying 9front system hasn't been upgraded since
> December.
> 
> pkgtools
>   * installpkg appears to run correctly but it's noticeable some
>     work is not done; e.g. there is no gcc symlink and firefox's
>     launcher script languishes in /usr/lib/firefox-foo. Probably
>     related to bash's env var issues.
>   * tar-13.1 (included) fails to unpack files. Installpkg
>     complains if /bin/tar-13.1 is not present, but functions
>     better without than with.
> 
> bash (3.0)
>   * Prompts, executes commands, for loops, wildcard expansion,
>     and history (in xterm) correctly.
>   * Fails to export environment variables.
>   * May have some other problem with variables;
>     configure fails to recognize it as a posix shell based on a
>     test with a lot of variables.
>   * ddoouubblleess every character entered at the prompt in rio
>     and acme windows. This is purely cosmetic. Does not happen in
>     xterm.
> 
> ash
>   * Prompts, executes commands, and history (in xterm) correctly.
>   * ddoouubblleess every character entered at the prompt in rio
>     and acme windows. This is purely cosmetic. Does not happen in
>     xterm.
> 
> xterm
>   * Displays and scrolls command-line data correctly.
>   * Dialog appears to run correctly within it. (--yesno tested)
>   * Less does not.
>   * Takes a second to exit.
> 
> WindowMaker and WPrefs.app
>   * WM Functions as correctly as it ever did.
>   * WPrefs works.
> 
> Firefox (1.5)
>   * Generally functions as expected but cannot load some pages
>     which Mothra can, and can't load any of the pages I really
>     want which don't work in Mothra anyway. ;)
> 
> xz
>   * could not compile; failed to configure (see bash).
> 
> opera (11.62)
>   * outputs 1 line to stderr: Killed. Not really unexpected with
>     such an old libc.
> 
> opera (9.52, gcc-2.95, static)
>   * Works correctly! Or at least, it works better than that old
>     Firefox.
> 
> To do:
>   * Test environment variables in ash. If pass, attempt to use ash
>     as /bin/sh and retry package installation and configure
>     scripts. Also retry Opera 11.
>   * See if some change to /etc/inputrc could fix the doubling.

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

On Wed, 4 Apr 2012 10:17:31 +0100
steve <steve@quintile.net> wrote:

> i did quite a bit of work on linuxemu last year but never got it to a stage where i was happy to generally release it. for me, working with debian, the improved linuxemu will now work
> happily with the current debian distribution; i have not tried slackware.

Awesome. If it works with Debian I don't see why it wouldn't work with
Slackware.

> 
> the most controversial change was in the handling of special files, which i flag using
> a combination of plan9's append and exclusive bits, rather than cinap's choice of using
> an escaped "special" filename.
> 
> the change makes open, stat, and wstat cheaper as the file you a moifying is easily found,
> however it does mean you have to use mkfs/extfs of linux'tar to move files about, plan9's tar
> will not do as it does not understand these extra mode flags.

Fine by me, Plan 9's tar was no good for bootstrapping anyway.

> 
> there are many other changes including a symlink cache, and wider linux systemcall coverage.
> 
> i use this daily at work for svn and ghostscript, and opera but i haven't tried much else,
> what i have tried does work.

Opera is the main thing for me too, but I'm also lazy and don't want to
port puzzle games if I can have them in linuxemu.

> 
> you are welcome to try mycode which is in /n/sources/contrib/linuxemu.tgz, though
> i cannot help much at the moment as i am on holiday.

uh, bad path, no? what's your user dir?

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[sl]

Discovered yesterday that this version of Opera installs and works in the
Debian Sarge mroot:

opera_10.00.4585.gcc3.qt3_i386.deb

I've been using it for a couple of days. It feels a bit faster and
certainly more stable.

-sl

Re: Linuxemu and Slackware 11.0, preliminary report

[sl]

> opera_10.00.4585.gcc3.qt3_i386.deb
>
> I've been using it for a couple of days. It feels a bit faster and
> certainly more stable.

This one seems even better:

opera_10.11.4791.gcc3.qt3_i386.deb

Almost none of the lag and tendency to freeze up exhibited by previous
versions. This is the latest .deb that will install in the Debian Sarge
mroot.

-sl