Re: [9front] "Touching the Artwork" strikes again

[Stuart Morrow <morrow.stuart@gmail.com>]

> Right, except Exit was discussed back and forth on both channels I
> mentioned, while being developed and after, with many opinions
> considered.  We arrived at where we are now based on the result of
> those discussions.  It wasn't just one person secretly git/push'ing.

"There was discussion" and "the matter is settled" are clearly not the
same thing.

The first part of that inequation is disputed by nobody.  That Exit
and Delete are conflatable was not brought up at all back then to my
knowledge, so the current solution doesn't take the whole problem into
account.

I offer a concept that would solve a number of problems with a single
technology:

1. The question of how to Exit - and the fact that it was discussed
shows there is a question.

2. People would like to be able to alt-tab and stuff (in this concept
it would just be tab - you don't need alt when you're already in a
quasimode), but how do you do keyboard control when nesting exists. On
other systems nestable multiplexers use the logical but *plain bad*
method of escaping keyboard commands. This sets the standard for what
to avoid.

3. Keeping menus short.  Window management that requires a manual is
an absolute non-starter if you ask me, but if we're just talking
"extra" commands it's fine.

Not sure if this belongs to 2 or 3, but I wouldn't mind seeing what
happens and what usage patterns emerge when undo/redo (for win. mgmt
operations) exists. Thousands of window managers and nobody ever seems
to think of this?

>> Exit sounds like it could mean to close, plus it's easier to find in
>> the menu than Delete is.
>
> That is a speculation, not a fact.  Maybe for you personally this is
> confusing? Quoting the author of the video you linked:
>
> 	< nzm_> hey, I just saw on ML someone mentioned my presentation
> 		- happy you found it but my error was oddly trivial and I'm not sure
> 		what the issue is

Not seeing in big picture is common here. If you read this far I think
I have cleared it up.

But this is what you get when you're good implementers but don't have
a Uriel, someone who sees and/or cares about more than just the code.
You get Mothra as the default in the same system where plumbing is up
and running by default, you get riow in the release *before*
screenlock has been made a 9P server that runs ahead of Rio and
interposes all input on all input devices.

>> Exit is something nobody wants unless they're advanced enough to know
>> about hidden menu commands.
>
> That is a speculation.  Several people wanted an Exit and it was
> enough "wants" to get it in.

The sentence continues past the word "nobody".  Nobody who doesn't
know to just go for the nearest word to "Close" (you don't keep
looking for something once you think you've found it) needs (let alone
wants) Exit.