[Caml-list] LablGtk

[Caml-list] LablGtk

[Nicolas FRANCOIS]

Before asking the LablGtk list (which is not completly disconnected with
this one, I think), is there ANY way to find help on this package ? Either
documentation, or examples of small applications written in LablGtk (I'm
looking for a "paint" app, to see menus, drawing areas and mouse clicks
work).

Or even a list of applications working with ?

Thanks.

-- 

                   Nicolas FRANCOIS
            http://nicolas.francois.free.fr
 A TRUE Klingon programmer does NOT comment his code
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Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk

[Jacques Garrigue]

> Before asking the LablGtk list (which is not completly disconnected with
> this one, I think), is there ANY way to find help on this package ? Either
> documentation, or examples of small applications written in LablGtk (I'm
> looking for a "paint" app, to see menus, drawing areas and mouse clicks
> work).

There are plenty of small examples in the (strangely named) examples
directory of the distribution. For instance, you can see menus in
editor.ml, mouse clicks in fixed_editor.ml, and drawing in drawing.ml.

We have also some small applications, but they were not released until
now out of laziness to package them.

> Or even a list of applications working with ?

That would be interesting. If people can send me such information, I
will add it to the lablgtk page.
Currently the reference application is Unison, but it doesn't do any
fancy graphical stuff.

      Jacques Garrigue
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Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk

[Nicolas FRANCOIS]

On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:34:37 +0900
Jacques Garrigue <garrigue@kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp> wrote:

> > Before asking the LablGtk list (which is not completly disconnected
> > with this one, I think), is there ANY way to find help on this package
> > ? Either documentation, or examples of small applications written in
> > LablGtk (I'm looking for a "paint" app, to see menus, drawing areas
> > and mouse clicks work).
> 
> There are plenty of small examples in the (strangely named) examples
> directory of the distribution. For instance, you can see menus in
> editor.ml, mouse clicks in fixed_editor.ml, and drawing in drawing.ml.

Yes. I know this. What I am looking for is REAL documentation. For
example, I was not able to find out how to send a signal (just to let my
drawing area know that it has to redraw itself, for example).

I noticed some sarcasm in your "(strangely named)". Beware, Klingons don't
share Human's sense of humour. Grrr.

> We have also some small applications, but they were not released until
> now out of laziness to package them.

NOthing about signals in the apps dir, I already checked this.

Really, you can't imagine the number of lines of code I read before
asking. And I intensively used OCamlBrowser on LablGtk installation, but
this is simply too much for me. I know GUI programming in Qt (and some
others), I hate Gtk for overfeeding casting, so I thought LablGtk would be
the solution. But I failed. Bouhou !

> > Or even a list of applications working with ?
> 
> That would be interesting. If people can send me such information, I
> will add it to the lablgtk page.
> Currently the reference application is Unison, but it doesn't do any
> fancy graphical stuff.

Thanks anyway.

-- 

                   Nicolas FRANCOIS
            http://nicolas.francois.free.fr
 A TRUE Klingon programmer does NOT comment his code
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Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk

[Jacques Garrigue]

From: Nicolas FRANCOIS (AKA El Bofo) <nicolas.francois@free.fr>

> > There are plenty of small examples in the (strangely named) examples
> > directory of the distribution. For instance, you can see menus in
> > editor.ml, mouse clicks in fixed_editor.ml, and drawing in drawing.ml.
> 
> Yes. I know this. What I am looking for is REAL documentation. For
> example, I was not able to find out how to send a signal (just to let my
> drawing area know that it has to redraw itself, for example).

OK, I thought you were talking about receiving signals.
The more precise the question, the better the answer.
Actually, there is very little support for explicitly sending signals.
You have to go directly for GtkSignal.emit_unit and its friends.
The signals themselves are in the Gtk*.*.Signals submodules.
However, in your case here, you should rather call #misc#draw
         w#misc#draw (Some (Gdk.Rectangle.create 10 10 20 20))
      or w#misc#draw None

As for documentation, the only formal documentation is the README
file, which tries to tell you where is what, but not really how to use
it. One problem is that I have no idea what a real documentation
should include, without ducplicating GTK's own documentation, which is
huge. Probably more details about signals ?
Some people where working on a tutorial. Is there some progress?

> I noticed some sarcasm in your "(strangely named)". Beware, Klingons don't
> share Human's sense of humour. Grrr.

I was just pointing that, in the absence of documentation, examples
can help a lot. But they could be better organized, and it appears
that what you were looking for was not there.

> > We have also some small applications, but they were not released until
> > now out of laziness to package them.
> 
> NOthing about signals in the apps dir, I already checked this.

The above sentence means that it is _not_ there. I've actually written
such a paint application in the past, and was thinking of including it
if it can help anybody. The trouble is that it is entangled with other
code, as part of a bigger project.

> Really, you can't imagine the number of lines of code I read before
> asking. And I intensively used OCamlBrowser on LablGtk installation, but
> this is simply too much for me. I know GUI programming in Qt (and some
> others), I hate Gtk for overfeeding casting, so I thought LablGtk would be
> the solution. But I failed. Bouhou !

I know, GTK is far from ideal. But it's still the easiest thing to
interface with, after Tcl/Tk. Qt is so tightly bound to C++.

Cheers,

Jacques Garrigue
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Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk

[Johann Spies]

On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 11:10:45PM +0100, Nicolas FRANCOIS wrote:

> this one, I think), is there ANY way to find help on this package ?
> Either documentation, or examples of small applications written in
> LablGtk (I'm

I have the same problem: I want to see how thing are handled in
LablGtk.  I recently searched for an example of a notebook in LablGtk
but could not find one. 

I know it is not practical to rewrite the libgtk-manual, but it would
be nice to see what the ocaml-equivalent is for the c examples.

There is in my opinion a good example on how this can be done: the
wxPython manual which illustrates the python-specific way of handling
things without duplicating the rest of the wxWindows manual.

Unfortunately I don't have the necessary knowledge to write such a
lablgtk-manual :(

Regards.

Johann
-- 
Johann Spies          Telefoon: 021-808 4036
Informasietegnologie, Universiteit van Stellenbosch

     "The LORD bless thee, and keep thee; The LORD make his
      face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee; The 
      LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee 
      peace."              Numbers 6:24-26 
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Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk

[Maxence Guesdon]

"Nicolas FRANCOIS (AKA El Bofo)" a écrit :
> 
> Before asking the LablGtk list (which is not completly disconnected with
> this one, I think), is there ANY way to find help on this package ? Either
> documentation, or examples of small applications written in LablGtk (I'm
> looking for a "paint" app, to see menus, drawing areas and mouse clicks
> work).
> 
> Or even a list of applications working with ?
I've written some applications with lablgtk, using menus, some
click events for contextual menus,... They're available on
http://www.maxence-g.net/Tools/tools.html
You will find also an interface builder, Zoggy, not still complete
but already usable, for which a tutorial is coming soon.

--
Maxence Guesdon
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Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk

[Jacques Garrigue]

> > this one, I think), is there ANY way to find help on this package ?
> > Either documentation, or examples of small applications written in
> > LablGtk
> 
> I have the same problem: I want to see how thing are handled in
> LablGtk.  I recently searched for an example of a notebook in LablGtk
> but could not find one.

Here it is, as an example of interactive session using the threaded
toplevel. I just looked at the types with OCamlBrowser, and did the
"evident" thing.

# let w = GWindow.window ~show:true ();;
val w : GWindow.window = <obj>
# let nb = GPack.notebook ~packing:w#add ();;
val nb : GPack.notebook = <obj>
# let p1 =GEdit.text ~editable:true
  ~packing:(nb#append_page ~tab_label:(GMisc.label ~text:"Text" ())#coerce
            ~menu_label:(GMisc.label ~text:"Text" ())#coerce) ();;
val p1 : GEdit.text = <obj>
# let p2 = GButton.button ~label:"Hello world!"
  ~packing:(nb#append_page ~tab_label:(GMisc.label ~text:"Button" ())#coerce
             ~menu_label:(GMisc.label ~text:"Button" ())#coerce) ();;
val p2 : GButton.button = <obj>

This is not too say that you didn't search enough. In fact it may take
a while to get used to the basic concepts of typeful programming: look
for the function with the right type.
In the ideal, lablgtk is just intended to work as GTK+true types.

> I know it is not practical to rewrite the libgtk-manual, but it would
> be nice to see what the ocaml-equivalent is for the c examples.

Maybe we could try to translate all the examples in the GTK
tutorial. A large part of them was translated by Hubert Fauque in
testgtk.ml, but I have not got contributed examples for a while. In
fact it can be a good training for beginners :-)

> There is in my opinion a good example on how this can be done: the
> wxPython manual which illustrates the python-specific way of handling
> things without duplicating the rest of the wxWindows manual.

Can you give me a URL ?
I've got a look at the wxPyton online tutorial, but except for using
HTML it didn't strike me as much more informative than the short but
dense lablgtk README. Note also that Python doesn't have types.
 
> Unfortunately I don't have the necessary knowledge to write such a
> lablgtk-manual :(

What about writing a FAQ. If you have questions without answers, I or
others on the lablgtk list may fill them.

Cheers,

Jacques Garrigue
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Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk

[Johann Spies]

On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 06:14:29PM +0900, Jacques Garrigue wrote:
> > I have the same problem: I want to see how thing are handled in
> > LablGtk.  I recently searched for an example of a notebook in LablGtk
> > but could not find one.
> 
> Here it is, as an example of interactive session using the threaded
> toplevel. I just looked at the types with OCamlBrowser, and did the
> "evident" thing.
...
> This is not too say that you didn't search enough. In fact it may take
> a while to get used to the basic concepts of typeful programming: look
> for the function with the right type.
> In the ideal, lablgtk is just intended to work as GTK+true types.

OK.  I tried to look for an example of the use of notebook by using
rgrep *.ml on /usr/share/doc/lablgtk and could not find anything.  It
was also not in testgtk.ml.

After your message I tried to search with Ocamlbrowser (which I do not
use regularly - maybe because I don't know it well). So I typed in
"notebook", clicked on "type" and pressed enter.  And nothing
happened.

I then selecte "name" and nothing happened.  There is no lablgtk
module listed by Ocamlbrowser.  But lablgtk is on my system in
/usr/lib/ocaml/lablgtk.

I did try and read the source of GPack but although that helped me a
little bit, I do not know enough of functional programming to always
understand the practical use of a function by looking at it's type.

I learn mostly through examples illustrating a principle.


> Can you give me a URL ?
> I've got a look at the wxPyton online tutorial, but except for using
> HTML it didn't strike me as much more informative than the short but
> dense lablgtk README. Note also that Python doesn't have types.

No I could find an url.  On my system it is part of the
wxPython/wxWindows-docmentation:

file:///usr/share/doc/wxwin2.2-doc/wxWindows-manual.html/wxwin471.htm#wxPython

> What about writing a FAQ. If you have questions without answers, I or
> others on the lablgtk list may fill them.

I might try and do that.  I have a lot more questions than answers. 

Regards.

Johann
-- 
Johann Spies          Telefoon: 021-808 4036
Informasietegnologie, Universiteit van Stellenbosch

     "The LORD bless thee, and keep thee; The LORD make his
      face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee; The 
      LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee 
      peace."              Numbers 6:24-26 
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QT Bindings [Was: Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk]

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:11:39PM +0900, Jacques Garrigue wrote:
> I know, GTK is far from ideal. But it's still the easiest thing to
> interface with, after Tcl/Tk. Qt is so tightly bound to C++.

I'm interested in ohter opinions about this.
A while ago I've looked for OCaml QT bindings but I find nothing, so I
looked at it thinking to write them but seems to me that the real work
is really really huge.
Anyway I haven't looked at it enough deeper to see the ocaml related
problems.

What are the intrinsic problems related to QT bindings coding?

TIA,
Cheers.

-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli - undergraduate student of CS @ Univ. Bologna, Italy
zack@cs.unibo.it | ICQ# 33538863 | http://www.cs.unibo.it/~zacchiro
"I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I am not
sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!" -- G.Romney
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Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk

[Jacques Garrigue]

Hi Johann,

> OK.  I tried to look for an example of the use of notebook by using
> rgrep *.ml on /usr/share/doc/lablgtk and could not find anything.  It
> was also not in testgtk.ml.

It seems that I am bad at explaining myself: there is no example with
notebooks in the distribution. This will change in a near future :-)

> After your message I tried to search with Ocamlbrowser (which I do not
> use regularly - maybe because I don't know it well). So I typed in
> "notebook", clicked on "type" and pressed enter.  And nothing
> happened.

You have to add extra paths when calling ocamlbrowser:

    ocamlbrowser -I +lablgtk

> I did try and read the source of GPack but although that helped me a
> little bit, I do not know enough of functional programming to always
> understand the practical use of a function by looking at it's type.

Well, you also have to look at GTK's documentation.
But once used to reading types, you will often find them informative
enough to avoid refering too often to the documentation. Or at least
to let you find a usable function before looking it up.

Cheers,

Jacques Garrigue
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Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk

[Nicolas FRANCOIS]

On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:11:39 +0900
Jacques Garrigue <garrigue@kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp> wrote:

> From: Nicolas FRANCOIS (AKA El Bofo) <nicolas.francois@free.fr>
> > Yes. I know this. What I am looking for is REAL documentation. For
> > example, I was not able to find out how to send a signal (just to let
> > my drawing area know that it has to redraw itself, for example).
> 
> OK, I thought you were talking about receiving signals.
> The more precise the question, the better the answer.
> Actually, there is very little support for explicitly sending signals.
> You have to go directly for GtkSignal.emit_unit and its friends.
> The signals themselves are in the Gtk*.*.Signals submodules.
> However, in your case here, you should rather call #misc#draw
>          w#misc#draw (Some (Gdk.Rectangle.create 10 10 20 20))
>       or w#misc#draw None

I'll check this. Anyway, I found another solution. My problem was that I
had to create a variable "drawing" like this :

let drawing = new GDraw.drawable (self#fenetre#area#misc#window)

after a call to self#fenetre#area#misc#realize (can't figure out what this
is for. Creating space on the screen for this widget ? Is it necessary for
variable drawing ? ...). 

> As for documentation, the only formal documentation is the README
> file, which tries to tell you where is what, but not really how to use
> it. One problem is that I have no idea what a real documentation
> should include, without ducplicating GTK's own documentation, which is
> huge. Probably more details about signals ?
> Some people where working on a tutorial. Is there some progress?

The problem with Gtk is that I don't have a good technical documentation,
giving the inheritance tree, the complete methods list, and simple canvas
to realize basic apps. And not all this f...g mess with casting everywhere
and trying to let you think you're doing object programmation ! Well,
maybe I didn't find the good book. Linux Mag (France) articles are
usefull, but not enough, and the translation to LablGtk (introducing it's
own hierarchy, not that I complain about it) is not obvious. I really
don't know if I need to understand deeply Gtk, or if I'd better learn the
entire G[A-Z]* structure to use the lib'. 
> > I noticed some sarcasm in your "(strangely named)". Beware, Klingons
> > don't share Human's sense of humour. Grrr.
> 
> I was just pointing that, in the absence of documentation, examples
> can help a lot. But they could be better organized, and it appears
> that what you were looking for was not there.

Well, you can't imagine how many examples I studied before asking my
questions. But you're right in one way : usually, just after writing a
message begging for help, I find a solution ;-) Can't stand it, but it
helps a lot to complain on some list. I just chose Caml List because there
is more traffic than on LablGtk. The proof is that you answered a message
of mine at about 4 AM (in France). This is quite good news at the right
moment ! So, thnaks a lot, and don't think it's time wasting helping
people by recalling them to explore docs and examples ;-) 
> > > We have also some small applications, but they were not released
> > > until now out of laziness to package them.
> > 
> > NOthing about signals in the apps dir, I already checked this.
> 
> The above sentence means that it is _not_ there. I've actually written
> such a paint application in the past, and was thinking of including it
> if it can help anybody. The trouble is that it is entangled with other
> code, as part of a bigger project.

There will be another one soon : Drgeocaml. I just created a sourceforge
porject about it. If you're interested, just let me know. 
> > Really, you can't imagine the number of lines of code I read before
> > asking. And I intensively used OCamlBrowser on LablGtk installation,
> > but this is simply too much for me. I know GUI programming in Qt (and
> > some others), I hate Gtk for overfeeding casting, so I thought LablGtk
> > would be the solution. But I failed. Bouhou !
> 
> I know, GTK is far from ideal. But it's still the easiest thing to
> interface with, after Tcl/Tk. Qt is so tightly bound to C++.

Yes, but the structure of Qt is obvious, which Gtk is very very far from.
Don't understand the problem of you people with C++. Is it really so weird
?

Anyway, and again, many thanks, friend.

\bye

-- 

                   Nicolas FRANCOIS
            http://nicolas.francois.free.fr
 A TRUE Klingon programmer does NOT comment his code
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Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk

[Johann Spies]

On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 10:09:04PM +0900, Jacques Garrigue wrote:
> 
> It seems that I am bad at explaining myself: there is no example with
> notebooks in the distribution. This will change in a near future :-)
...
> You have to add extra paths when calling ocamlbrowser:
> 
>     ocamlbrowser -I +lablgtk

Thanks.

Johann

-- 
Johann Spies          Telefoon: 021-808 4036
Informasietegnologie, Universiteit van Stellenbosch

     "The LORD bless thee, and keep thee; The LORD make his
      face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee; The 
      LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee 
      peace."              Numbers 6:24-26 
-------------------
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Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk

[Nicolas FRANCOIS]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 439 bytes --]

I know this is bad habit, but it's so small that I don't think you'll
bother. I send you the beginning of my project : just edit the INCLUDE
variable for Lablgtk location, and type make.

Everything is working, but the mouse events don't work AT ALL. I can't
figure out why.

May you help me ?

\bye

-- 

                   Nicolas FRANCOIS
            http://nicolas.francois.free.fr
 A TRUE Klingon programmer does NOT comment his code

[-- Attachment #2: essai-gtk.tar.gz --]
[-- Type: application/octet-stream, Size: 11854 bytes --]

Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk

[Nicolas FRANCOIS]

On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:45:59 +0100
Nicolas FRANCOIS (AKA El Bofo) <nicolas.francois@free.fr> wrote:

> I know this is bad habit, but it's so small that I don't think you'll
> bother. I send you the beginning of my project : just edit the INCLUDE
> variable for Lablgtk location, and type make.
> 
> Everything is working, but the mouse events don't work AT ALL. I can't
> figure out why.
> 
> May you help me ?
> 
> \bye

Oups, sorry for the attachment, it was only intended to Jacques. I'll
watch the CC field next time I reply to him.

\bye

-- 

                   Nicolas FRANCOIS
            http://nicolas.francois.free.fr
 A TRUE Klingon programmer does NOT comment his code
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Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk

[Nicolas FRANCOIS]

On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:08:56 +0100
Maxence Guesdon <max@sbuilders.com> wrote:

> "Nicolas FRANCOIS (AKA El Bofo)" a écrit :
> > 
> > Before asking the LablGtk list (which is not completly disconnected
> > with this one, I think), is there ANY way to find help on this package
> > ? Either documentation, or examples of small applications written in
> > LablGtk (I'm looking for a "paint" app, to see menus, drawing areas
> > and mouse clicks work).
> > 
> > Or even a list of applications working with ?
> I've written some applications with lablgtk, using menus, some
> click events for contextual menus,... They're available on
> http://www.maxence-g.net/Tools/tools.html
> You will find also an interface builder, Zoggy, not still complete
> but already usable, for which a tutorial is coming soon.

This is the tool I build my interface with ;-) Exactly how do you use your
class ? Can you check the program I posted in another message to see
what's going wrong ?

BTW, I compiled ALL your tools.

\bye

-- 

                   Nicolas FRANCOIS
            http://nicolas.francois.free.fr
 A TRUE Klingon programmer does NOT comment his code
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Re: QT Bindings [Was: Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk]

[Sven]

On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 01:55:24PM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 12:11:39PM +0900, Jacques Garrigue wrote:
> > I know, GTK is far from ideal. But it's still the easiest thing to
> > interface with, after Tcl/Tk. Qt is so tightly bound to C++.
> 
> I'm interested in ohter opinions about this.
> A while ago I've looked for OCaml QT bindings but I find nothing, so I
> looked at it thinking to write them but seems to me that the real work
> is really really huge.
> Anyway I haven't looked at it enough deeper to see the ocaml related
> problems.
> 
> What are the intrinsic problems related to QT bindings coding?

As i understood it, the main problem is that it is more difficult to interface
with C++ than with C. I don't know the details, but that is the answer you
will get if reading the previous thread on this mailing list.

The second hindrance is naturally, as you said, it is really heavy work, and
there need to be someone working on it. I always thought some kind of semi
automatism would help a lot here though.

Friendly,

Sven Luther
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Re: QT Bindings [Was: Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk]

[Henrik Motakef]

Sven <luther@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> writes:

> > What are the intrinsic problems related to QT bindings coding?
> As i understood it, the main problem is that it is more difficult to interface
> with C++ than with C. I don't know the details, but that is the answer you
> will get if reading the previous thread on this mailing list.

There is a C-Wrapper for Qt in the KDEBindings module for
KDE3. Perhaps that would make it easier.

Regards
Henrik
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Re: [Caml-list] LablGtk : found the solution :-P

[Nicolas FRANCOIS]

On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:45:59 +0100
Nicolas FRANCOIS (AKA El Bofo) <nicolas.francois@free.fr> wrote:

> I know this is bad habit, but it's so small that I don't think you'll
> bother. I send you the beginning of my project : just edit the INCLUDE
> variable for Lablgtk location, and type make.
> 
> Everything is working, but the mouse events don't work AT ALL. I can't
> figure out why.
> 
> May you help me ?

I finally found the trick : by default, a drawing area doesn't treat
button events. All I had to do was to add 

    self#fenetre#area#event#add [`BUTTON_PRESS];

somewhere to let it accept button events. I found it not in Gtk doc, but
in a serie of articles about Gtk in a french revue called GNU/Linux Mag.
Great revue, I can assure you.

See you later for other stupid questions... and usefull answers ;-)

\bye

-- 

                   Nicolas FRANCOIS
            http://nicolas.francois.free.fr
 A TRUE Klingon programmer does NOT comment his code
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