Re: [Caml-list] IDE like PyCharm - Results

[Allan Wegan <allanwegan@allanwegan.de>]

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<snip rant>

>> Vim and Emacs are commandline editors - we got 2016 and IDEs for
>> other languages evolved to be GUI-driven out there.
>
> Actually, IDEs for other languages evolved to be GUIs more than 20
> years ago, having recently had the "pleasure" of reinstalling
> Microsoft Visual C++ 4.

> So calling Vim and Emacs users dated may not be a route to getting
> advice (belligerent maybe...)

So i should not call Emacs outdated because that is too much an
understatement? English is not my first language - would "archaic" be
more appropriate?

By the way i did not even called the users outdated - just the IDE.
Using outdated stuff is very popular by the youngsters where i live. We
call them hipsters - and they call it vintage. Nothing wrong with that.
I am not against using old Vectrex consoles and Emacs - i just do not
use it myself. And i really try to ensure, that everyone who did not get
the message the first time will have an increasing chance to get it in
each iteration of the
use-Emacs-its-great--nope-want-a-GUI-driven-solution cycle. That
drastically increases the possibility, that even the one without any
reading skill will get it at some point. He will sudeenly realize, that
i am obviously not interested in using Emacs and therefore trying to
advertise it again and again is just a waste of time.

In hindsight i think i should have started with a flamewar against Emacs
- that would have gotten the message around much faster. But i don't
even hate Emacs - i just don't want to use it and therefore will not use it.

And regarding getting advice - i got it from both - Emacs users and
non-Emacs users. I am actually pretty satisfied as i also got results my
internet search did not uncover. Sublime is really good. And OCamlEditor
seems to be worth some more tries too (just have to read more about
OCaml package management first).

> If you'd like to whip up some funds for a port, I'm sure the
> community would be grateful.

Of course i would like to do that - i guess most here would. And also as
most do, i have to pay my rent and food and then there is nothing left
to suppoort all the good things we all would like to support.

> You are a priori assuming that all of us Vim and Emacs users have
> never seen or used Visual Studio (or Eclipse before).

Nope - actually i asummed that you all know it and hate it for some
unknown reason (as it is the exact opposite of Emacs). As i really like
it, i used it as an Example for the almost perfect IDE i would wish to
have for OCaml. Just to be sure that everyone knows what i am searching for.

> A better tack might be to name a feature of your favourite GUI IDE
> which you perceive as lacking in our terribly dated "command line"
> editors (I personally regard gVim as a GUI editor, the clue being in
> the 'g'). There's a chance it's on a wish-list; there's a chance
> there's a perfectly reasonable other way...

The thing about software that is designed to be GUI-based from the start
is, that it really looks and feels like GUI-based. It does not look and
feel like terminal-based software that someone put into a window and
attached a toolbar to. I do not know if that difference is something i
really can describe good enough to get the point across - but it is the
same reason why Microsoft and Apple are "worth" billions of dollars on
the stock market. Its all about usability for the people who like
well-designed GUIs. That GUIs really sell well. There also are complete
Operating systems - and even hardware in case of Apple - below that
GUIs. But they are not the things that sell the product.
I really like GUIs for a lot of Tasks - including image editing and
coding. I also always got some terminal open too - but not for image
editing or coding.

>> Too bad they did their own .Net-based functional
>> language instead of adopting OCaml...
>
> Although they did use OCaml as a starting point for that language.

They grabbed something from here and there and then soaked it in their
disgusting .Net sauce (they instantly got a huge standard library and
community that way but i want the real thing).



-- 
Allan Wegan
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