From: Clemens.BERGER@unice.fr
To: Marco Grandis <grandis@dima.unige.it>,
Michael Barr <barr@math.mcgill.ca>,
categories@mta.ca
Subject: Re: Question on exact sequence
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:34:04 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1N8PDf-0007KI-JL@mailserv.mta.ca> (raw)
Marco Grandis wrote:
> Dear Michael,
>
> The following lemma extends both results.
>
> We have a sequence of consecutive morphisms indexed on the integers
>
> ... ----> An ----> An+1 ----> An+2 ----> ...
>
> (if your sequence is finite, you extend by zero's). Call f(n,m) the
> composite
> from An to Am (n < m).
>
> Then, writing H/K a subquotient H/(H intersection K),
> there is an unbounded exact sequence of induced morphisms:
>
> ... ----> Ker f(n,n+2) / Im f(n-1,n)
> ----> Ker f(n+1,n+2) / Im f(n-1,n+1)
> ----> Ker f(n+1,n+3) / Im f(n,n+1) ----> ...
>
> where morphisms are alternatively induced by an 'elementary' morphism
> (say An --> An+1) or by an identity.
>
> At each step, one increases of one unit the first index in the numerator
> and the second index in the denominator, or the opposite
> (alternatively); after
> two steps, all indices are increased of one unit, and we go along in
> the same way.
>
> - Your lemma comes out of a sequence A ----> B ----> C (extended
> with zeros).
>
> - Snake's lemma, with your letters, comes out of a sequence of three
> morphisms
> whose total composite is 0
>
> A ----> B ----> B' ----> C
> taking into account that A' = Ker(B' ----> C') and C = Cok(A ---->
> B).
>
> I like your lemma (and the Snake's). The form above does not look
> really nice.
> Perhaps someone else will find a nicer solution?
>
> However, if one looks at the universal model of a sequence of
> consecutive morphisms,
> in my third paper on Distributive Homological Algebra, Cahiers 26,
> 1985, p.186,
> the exact sequence above is obvious. (Much in the same way as for the
> sequence of
> the Snake Lemma, p. 188, diagrams (10) and (11).) This is how I found
> it.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Marco
>
Dear Michael and Marco,
as addition to Marco's answer, I would propose the following
notation: for any pair of composable arrows f:A-->B and g:B-->C denote
by H(g,f) the cokernel of ker(gf)-->ker(g), or (what amounts to the same
in an abelian category), the kernel of coker(f)-->coker(gf). Thus the
object H(g,f) is precisely the one which allows one to glue together the
short exact sequences 0-->ker(f)-->ker(gf)-->ker(g) and
coker(f)-->coker(gf)-->coker(g)-->0.
If gf=0 then H(g,f)=ker(g)/im(f) is precisely the homology object at
B, but as Ross already mentioned, this object is well defined for any
composable pair of arrows. Now, if we have three composable arrows
f:A-->B, g:B-->C, h:C-->D, then there is a 4-term exact sequence
0-->H(g,f)-->H(hg,f)-->H(h,gf)-->H(h,g)-->0. The snake lemma can be
derived from the special case hgf=0 of this 4-term exact sequence, where
g corresponds precisely to the middle vertical arrow of Michael's diagram.
It is interesting to observe that a proof (without elements !) of this
4-term exact sequence uses some nice composition properties of
Hilton-exact squares (a common generalization of pullback and pushout
squares). Some more details can be found at pg. 24 of
http://math.unice.fr/~cberger/structure1.
Several questions arise naturally: this 4-term exact sequence looks like
a "cocycle". Are there generalizations to n composable arrows ? What
about generalizations to non-abelian categories ?
All the best,
Clemens.
[For admin and other information see: http://www.mta.ca/~cat-dist/ ]
next reply other threads:[~2009-11-11 16:34 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 20+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2009-11-11 16:34 Clemens.BERGER [this message]
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2009-11-13 2:05 F William Lawvere
2009-11-12 19:58 Michael Barr
2009-11-11 17:29 Marco Grandis
2009-11-11 17:15 Marco Grandis
2009-11-11 16:36 George Janelidze
2009-11-11 15:04 George Janelidze
2009-11-12 12:41 ` Michael Barr
2009-11-13 16:06 ` Michael Barr
[not found] ` <00a001ca63f6$80936b50$0b00000a@C3>
[not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.64.0911122132300.27416@msr03.math.mcgill.ca>
[not found] ` <000f01ca644d$065eb590$0b00000a@C3>
[not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.64.0911131101330.27416@msr03.math.mcgill.ca>
2009-11-13 18:15 ` George Janelidze
2009-11-14 16:24 ` Michael Barr
2009-11-15 14:35 ` George Janelidze
2009-11-16 16:43 ` Marco Grandis
2009-11-13 0:16 ` George Janelidze
2009-11-11 11:05 Steve Lack
2009-11-10 20:14 Ross Street
2009-11-10 16:15 Michael Barr
2009-11-10 14:44 Marco Grandis
2009-11-10 3:22 Steve Lack
2009-11-09 22:57 Michael Barr
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