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From: Toby Bartels <toby+categories@ugcs.caltech.edu>
To: categories@mta.ca
Subject: Re: terminology
Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 13:51:56 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <E1OJEJc-00070z-Qc@mailserv.mta.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <A46C7965-B4E7-42E6-AE97-6C1D930AC878@cs.nott.ac.uk>

Thorsten Altenkirch wrote:

>Toby Bartels wrote:

[I suggested formalising category theory without equality of objects
in intensional Martin-Löf type theory, Coq, or SEAR without equality]

>I don't know any reasonable formalisation in Intensional Type Theory.
>People usually assume that hom sets are a setoid but objects aren't.
>This means that constructions like arrow categories are not available.
>To avoid this one would have to formalize explicitely what is a family
>of setoids indexed over a setoid. After this it is hard to see the
>category theory...

Why do you say that one cannot construct arrow categories?
We need only dependent sums, which Martin-Löf has in his type theory,
to form the type of all morphisms of a given category C.
We cannot compare these for equality, nor do we want to.
What we do need to compare for equality are commutative squares
(which are the morphisms in the arrow category) with given corners
(actually, even with two given parallel sides), and this we can do.

To be explicit, let Ob be the type of objects of the category C;
given x, y: Ob, let x -> y be the type of morphisms from x to y.
Given further two morphisms f, g: x -> y, we have a proposition f = g.
(Martin-Löf identifies propositions with types, but Coq does not,
so I say "proposition" so you can interpret it in either system.)
Then of course, there are operations and axioms that I will skip,
except to introduce ; as notation for composition in diagrammatic order:
f: x -> y, g: y -> z |- f;g: x -> z.

Then the type of objects of the arrow category of C
is sum_{x:Ob} sum_{y:Ob} x -> y, a dependent sum of dependent sums;
a typical element of this type is (x,y,f), where x,y: Ob and f: x -> y.
Given two objects (x,y,f) and (u,v,g) of the arrow category,
the type of morphisms from (x,y,f) to (u,v,g) is
sum_{a:x->u} sig_{b:y->v} f;b = a;g. (*)
(Again, I say "sig" to keep things correct in Coq,
since then f;b = a;g is a proposition rather than a type;
this is the same as a sum to Martin-Löf.)
A typical element of this type is (a,b,p),
where p is a proof of the relevant equality.

A set theorist might well write (*) above as
{ (a,b) | a: x -> u, b: y -> v, f;b = a;g };
they do not refer to p, since set theorists accept proof irrelevance.
They would then be finished, but as type theorists,
we still need to define when parallel morphisms are equal.
We do this by imposing proof irrelevance in the definition;
that is, the definition of equality makes no reference to p.
Specifically, given parallel morphisms (a,b,p) and (c,d,q),
both from (x,y,f) to (u,v,g) in the arrow category,
we define the proposition that they are equal
to be the conjunction of a = c and b = d.
Notice that this makes sense, since a,c: x -> u and b,d: y -> v.
So we can define that equality which we need in the arrow category.

To sum up:  An object in the arrow category of C is (x,y,f),
where x and y are objects of C and f: x -> y is a morphism of C.
A morphism from (x,y,f) to (u,v,g) in the arrow category of C
is (a,b,p), where a: x -> u, b: y -> v, and p: a;g = f;b.
Finally, two such morphisms (a,b,p) and (c,d,q) are equal
if and only if a = c and b = d.  (I leave it as an exercise
for the reader to define the operations and prove the axioms
that define the arrow category of C as a category.)

If you find the summary above a bit too wordy, say
  A morphism from (x,y,f) to (u,v,g) in the arrow category of C
  is (a,b), where a: x -> u and b: y -> v such that a;g = f;b.
That we do not give a name to the proof that a;g = f;b
makes it obvious what the definition of equality of morphisms should be,
so we leave it out as an abuse of language, or a convention of definition.
If it still seems odd that it is even possible to give a proof a name,
well, that is a feature of Martin-Löf type theory and Coq
that you can ignore (just as I ignore the feature of ZFC
that it is possible to ask whether two arbitrary sets are equal),
but you can also use SEAR without equality to avoid even that.


--Toby


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  parent reply	other threads:[~2010-05-30 20:51 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 83+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-05-19 10:38 Re terminology: Ronnie Brown
2010-05-20  7:58 ` soloviev
2010-05-20 19:53   ` terminology Eduardo J. Dubuc
2010-05-20 22:15   ` Re terminology: Joyal, Andre
2010-05-20 11:58 ` Urs Schreiber
     [not found] ` <AANLkTikre9x4Qikw0mqOl1qZs9DDSkcBu3CXWA05OTQT@mail.gmail.com>
2010-05-21 17:00   ` Ronnie Brown
2010-05-22 19:40     ` Joyal, André
     [not found]     ` <B3C24EA955FF0C4EA14658997CD3E25E370F5827@CAHIER.gst.uqam.ca>
2010-05-22 21:43       ` terminology Ronnie Brown
     [not found]       ` <4BF84FF3.7060806@btinternet.com>
2010-05-22 22:44         ` terminology Joyal, André
2010-05-23 15:39           ` terminology Colin McLarty
2010-05-24 13:42             ` equivalence terminology Paul Taylor
2010-05-24 15:53             ` we do meet isomorphisms of categories Marco Grandis
2010-05-26 15:21               ` Toby Bartels
2010-05-27  9:29               ` Prof. Peter Johnstone
     [not found]               ` <alpine.LRH.2.00.1005271007240.11352@siskin.dpmms.cam.ac.uk>
2010-05-27 10:08                 ` Marco Grandis
2010-05-30 12:05                   ` Joyal, André
2010-05-24 18:04             ` terminology Vaughan Pratt
2010-05-26  3:08               ` terminology Toby Bartels
2010-05-24 23:06             ` Equality again Joyal, André
2010-05-26  2:27               ` Patrik Eklund
2010-05-27 11:30               ` Prof. Peter Johnstone
2010-06-01  6:36                 ` Marco Grandis
2010-06-01 14:38                   ` Joyal, André
2010-05-25 14:08             ` terminology John Baez
2010-05-25 19:39               ` terminology Colin McLarty
2010-05-29 21:47                 ` terminology Toby Bartels
2010-05-30 19:15                   ` terminology Thorsten Altenkirch
     [not found]                   ` <A46C7965-B4E7-42E6-AE97-6C1D930AC878@cs.nott.ac.uk>
2010-05-30 20:51                     ` Toby Bartels [this message]
2010-06-01  7:39                       ` terminology Thorsten Altenkirch
2010-06-01 13:33                         ` terminology Peter LeFanu Lumsdaine
     [not found]                       ` <7BF50141-7775-4D3C-A4AF-D543891666B9@cs.nott.ac.uk>
2010-06-01 18:22                         ` terminology Toby Bartels
2010-05-26  8:03             ` terminology Reinhard Boerger
     [not found] ` <4BF6BC2C.2000606@btinternet.com>
2010-05-21 18:48   ` Re terminology: Urs Schreiber
     [not found] ` <AANLkTilG69hcX7ZV8zrLpQ_nf1pCmyktsnuE0RyJtQYF@mail.gmail.com>
2010-05-26  8:28   ` terminology John Baez
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2017-02-11 20:42 Terminology Fred E.J. Linton
2017-02-14  8:48 ` Terminology Steve Vickers
     [not found] ` <02568D97-0A72-4CA8-8900-BDE11E890890@cs.bham.ac.uk>
2017-02-14  9:39   ` Terminology Jean Benabou
2017-02-09 22:03 Terminology Andrée Ehresmann
2017-02-08  8:03 Terminology Jean Benabou
2017-02-08 16:34 ` Terminology Jirí Adámek
2017-02-10  1:42   ` Terminology George Janelidze
2017-02-08 21:40 ` Terminology Carsten Führmann
2017-02-09 11:31 ` Terminology Thomas Streicher
     [not found] ` <20170208180636.18346065.28939.42961@rbccm.com>
2017-02-09 16:38   ` Terminology Jean Benabou
2017-02-11 15:07     ` Terminology Steve Vickers
2013-05-02  3:57 Terminology Fred E.J. Linton
2013-05-02  3:57 Terminology Fred E.J. Linton
2013-05-03 11:53 ` Terminology Robert Dawson
2013-04-30  1:20 Terminology Fred E.J. Linton
2013-04-24 17:13 Terminology Jean Bénabou
2013-04-24 23:04 ` Terminology David Roberts
2013-04-27 13:08 ` Terminology Thomas Streicher
     [not found] ` <20130427130857.GC16801@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de>
2013-04-28  3:49   ` Terminology Jean Bénabou
2013-04-28 22:47     ` Terminology Olivier Gerard
     [not found] ` <557435A6-4568-4012-8C63-E031931F41FB@wanadoo.fr>
2013-04-28 14:17   ` Terminology Thomas Streicher
2013-04-29 20:05     ` Terminology Toby Bartels
2013-04-30  0:58       ` Terminology Peter May
2010-09-29  2:03 terminology Todd Trimble
2010-09-28  4:38 terminology Eduardo J. Dubuc
2010-05-27 18:31 terminology Colin McLarty
2010-05-16 12:44 terminology Peter Selinger
2010-05-13 17:17 bilax_monoidal_functors Michael Shulman
2010-05-14 14:43 ` terminology (was: bilax_monoidal_functors) Peter Selinger
2010-05-15 19:52   ` terminology Toby Bartels
2010-05-08  3:27 RE : bilax monoidal functors John Baez
2010-05-10 18:16 ` bilax_monoidal_functors?= John Baez
2010-05-11  8:28   ` bilax_monoidal_functors?= Michael Batanin
2010-05-12  3:02     ` bilax_monoidal_functors?= Toby Bartels
2010-05-13 23:09       ` bilax_monoidal_functors?= Michael Batanin
2010-05-15 16:05         ` terminology Joyal, André
2007-01-27 17:06 terminology wlawvere
2007-01-26 23:30 terminology Eduardo Dubuc
2005-12-30  1:16 terminology vs27
2005-12-29 19:09 terminology Nikita Danilov
2005-12-10  3:51 Terminology jean benabou
2005-12-21 20:04 ` Terminology Eduardo Dubuc
2005-12-26 19:47   ` terminology Vaughan Pratt
2005-12-29 23:17     ` terminology Eduardo Dubuc
2006-01-04 14:59       ` terminology Eduardo Dubuc
2003-10-17 15:19 terminology Marco Grandis
2003-10-16 21:39 terminology James Stasheff
2001-04-09 11:06 Terminology Krzysztof Worytkiewicz
2000-12-14  6:17 Terminology Max Kelly
     [not found] <3a35cdd73a39f901@amyris.wanadoo.fr>
2000-12-13 11:10 ` Terminology Dr. P.T. Johnstone
2000-12-13  1:17 Terminology Steve Lack
2000-12-12  8:19 Terminology Jean Benabou
2000-01-28 12:02 terminology James Stasheff
2000-01-28  9:57 terminology Marco Grandis
2000-01-27 19:28 terminology James Stasheff
2000-01-27 21:04 ` terminology Paul Glenn

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