Question about ticked articles being unticked...

Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Karl Asha]

I have a fair number of ticked/persistent articles in a lot of my 
summary buffers. Recently though it suddenly dawned on me that at some
point in time, some of the older ticked articles get unticked. 

What exactly causes this, and is there some variable I can set to 
avoid this behaviour? (This happens in both my nnml folders and regular 
newsgroups). 

Thanks!
Karl

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Mark Boyns]

16 May 1997 karl@blackdown.com writes:

> I have a fair number of ticked/persistent articles in a lot of my 
> summary buffers. Recently though it suddenly dawned on me that at some
> point in time, some of the older ticked articles get unticked. 
> 
> What exactly causes this, and is there some variable I can set to 
> avoid this behaviour? (This happens in both my nnml folders and regular 
> newsgroups). 

I've noticed this on nntp groups and reported it to Lars.  In my case
ticked (and cached) articles become unticked when they are expired on
the nntp server.  What's strange though is that I've only noticed it
happening in comp.risks which is very low traffic.  Other groups have
articles I ticked over a month ago.

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Kai Grossjohann]

>>>>> Mark Boyns writes:

  Mark> [...] In my case ticked (and cached) articles become unticked
  Mark> when they are expired on the nntp server. [...]

Maybe you also need to enter them into the cache ("*")?

kai
-- 
Life is hard and then you die.

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Karl Asha]

Kai Grossjohann writes:
 > >>>>> Mark Boyns writes:
 > 
 >   Mark> [...] In my case ticked (and cached) articles become unticked
 >   Mark> when they are expired on the nntp server. [...]
 > 
 > Maybe you also need to enter them into the cache ("*")?
 > 
 > kai
 > -- 
 > Life is hard and then you die.

In my case, they're both ticked and cached. So when the ticks disappear, 
they're still in the cache, and I can retick them...but I'd rather
the ticks never go away :)

Karl

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Mark Boyns]

16 May 1997 grossjohann@charly.cs.uni-dortmund.de writes:

> >>>>> Mark Boyns writes:
> 
>   Mark> [...] In my case ticked (and cached) articles become unticked
>   Mark> when they are expired on the nntp server. [...]
> 
> Maybe you also need to enter them into the cache ("*")?

Ticked articles are automatically cached.

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Mark Boyns <boyns@sdsu.edu> writes:

> 16 May 1997 grossjohann@charly.cs.uni-dortmund.de writes:
> 
> > >>>>> Mark Boyns writes:
> > 
> >   Mark> [...] In my case ticked (and cached) articles become unticked
> >   Mark> when they are expired on the nntp server. [...]
> > 
> > Maybe you also need to enter them into the cache ("*")?
> 
> Ticked articles are automatically cached.

I don't think so.  At least in my settings (`gnus-use-cache' set to
`passive', which is the default).

-- 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
Oh lord won't you buy me a color TV...

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Mark Boyns]

16 May 1997 hniksic@srce.hr writes:

> Mark Boyns <boyns@sdsu.edu> writes:
> 
> > 16 May 1997 grossjohann@charly.cs.uni-dortmund.de writes:
> > 
> > > >>>>> Mark Boyns writes:
> > > 
> > >   Mark> [...] In my case ticked (and cached) articles become unticked
> > >   Mark> when they are expired on the nntp server. [...]
> > > 
> > > Maybe you also need to enter them into the cache ("*")?
> > 
> > Ticked articles are automatically cached.
> 
> I don't think so.  At least in my settings (`gnus-use-cache' set to
> `passive', which is the default).

I do think so... (and they are _in_ my cache still)

gnus-cache-enter-articles's value is (ticked dormant)

Documentation:
Classes of articles to enter into the cache.


gnus-use-cache's value is t

Documentation:
*If nil, Gnus will ignore the article cache.
If `passive', it will allow entering (and reading) articles
explicitly entered into the cache.  If anything else, use the
cache to the full extent of the law.

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Mark Boyns <boyns@sdsu.edu> writes:

> > > Ticked articles are automatically cached.
> > 
> > I don't think so.  At least in my settings (`gnus-use-cache' set to
> > `passive', which is the default).
> 
> I do think so... (and they are _in_ my cache still)
[...]
> gnus-use-cache's value is t

I repeat that `gnus-use-cache' is `passive' by default, at least
that's what I infer from the sources, and how it works for me.  If you
set it to anything else -- well, fine.  I'm talking about default
behaviour here.

-- 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
"Silence!" cries Freydag. "I did not call thee in for a consultation!" 
"They are my innards! I will not have them misread by a poseur!"

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Stainless Steel Rat]

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>>>>> "MB" == Mark Boyns <boyns@sdsu.edu> writes:

>> Maybe you also need to enter them into the cache ("*")?
MB> Ticked articles are automatically cached.

Only if gnus-use-cache is non-nil and not 'passive.

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-- 
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
                                    \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Dan Schmidt]

Karl Asha <karl@blackdown.com> writes:

| I have a fair number of ticked/persistent articles in a lot of my 
| summary buffers. Recently though it suddenly dawned on me that at some
| point in time, some of the older ticked articles get unticked. 
| 
| What exactly causes this, and is there some variable I can set to 
| avoid this behaviour? (This happens in both my nnml folders and regular 
| newsgroups). 

I have noticed that sometimes if I have one nnfolder *Summary* buffer
open, and switch buffers back to *Group* without closing it, and then
enter another nnfolder group, a lot of the first group's articles get
unticked.

I haven't reported it yet because I wanted to have a better description
of the scenario, but since we're on the subject, I thought I'd pipe up.

I'm using Gnus v5.4.33; nntp 5.0; nnspool 2.0; nnfolder 1.0.

-- 
                 Dan Schmidt --> dfan@harmonixmusic.com, dfan@alum.mit.edu
Honest Bob & the                 http://www2.thecia.net/users/dfan/
Factory-to-Dealer Incentives --> http://www2.thecia.net/users/dfan/hbob/
          Gamelan Galak Tika --> http://web.mit.edu/galak-tika/www/

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Justin Sheehy]

Dan Schmidt <dfan@harmonixmusic.com> writes:

> I have noticed that sometimes if I have one nnfolder *Summary* buffer
> open, and switch buffers back to *Group* without closing it, and then
> enter another nnfolder group, a lot of the first group's articles get
> unticked.

Why would you do this?

You should exit a group by pressing 'q' in its Summary buffer, not by
changing buffers.

-Justin

 

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Dan Schmidt]

Justin Sheehy <dworkin@ccs.neu.edu> writes:

| Dan Schmidt <dfan@harmonixmusic.com> writes:
| 
| > I have noticed that sometimes if I have one nnfolder *Summary* buffer
| > open, and switch buffers back to *Group* without closing it, and then
| > enter another nnfolder group, a lot of the first group's articles get
| > unticked.
| 
| Why would you do this?

A standard scenario is that I'm reading through the messages in my
personal folder, and I reply to one of them.  While writing my reply, I
realize that I need some piece of information in one of my mailing-list
folders.  So I switch-buffer to *Group* and select the appropriate
mailing-list folder.  Then I curse as I realize what I have just done.

| You should exit a group by pressing 'q' in its Summary buffer, not by
| changing buffers.

Yes, that is true.  But I'll make the following points:

1. I thought that somewhere in the gnus manual, it says that you're
   allowed to have multiple *Summary* buffers open at once.  Of
   course, now I can't find that section, but in any case:

2. If opening multiple *Summary* buffers results in loss of data, the
   user should be forcibly prevented from doing it.

3. I could live with a one *Summary* buffer restriction, but multiple
   *Summary* buffers are useful in the scenario mentioned above.  In
   that scenario,

   a. I was never in the first *Summary* buffer at a time where I
      wanted it to go away; I would have had to explicitly return to
      it from my *reply* buffer and then hit 'q', which is a slight
      pain both to execute and to remember to do.

   b. Having to 'q' out of the first *Summary* buffer is also a pain
      in that I'm in the middle of traversing my messages in that
      folder, and I'd rather not have to quit out of that and re-enter
      just to reply to one of the messages.

-- 
                 Dan Schmidt --> dfan@harmonixmusic.com, dfan@alum.mit.edu
Honest Bob & the                 http://www2.thecia.net/users/dfan/
Factory-to-Dealer Incentives --> http://www2.thecia.net/users/dfan/hbob/
          Gamelan Galak Tika --> http://web.mit.edu/galak-tika/www/

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Dan Schmidt <dfan@harmonixmusic.com> writes:

> 1. I thought that somewhere in the gnus manual, it says that you're
>    allowed to have multiple *Summary* buffers open at once.  Of
>    course, now I can't find that section, but in any case:

I think Gnus 5.0 release documentation claimed this.  It's in the
Compatibility section:

    One major compatibility question is the presence of several
    summary buffers.  All variables that are relevant while reading a
    group are buffer-local to the summary buffer they belong in.
    Although many important variables have their values copied into
    their global counterparts whenever a command is executed in the
    summary buffer, this change might lead to incorrect values being
    used unless you are careful.

-- 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
Speak softly and carry a +6 two-handed sword.

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Sudish Joseph]

Dan Schmidt writes:
> 1. I thought that somewhere in the gnus manual, it says that you're
>    allowed to have multiple *Summary* buffers open at once.  Of
>    course, now I can't find that section, but in any case:

IIRC, Lars went to great trouble to make concurrent summaries
possible.  I find it very useful and would hate to lose this feature.
Is this now deprecated, Lars?

-Sudish

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Sudish Joseph <sj@eng.mindspring.net> writes:

> IIRC, Lars went to great trouble to make concurrent summaries
> possible.  I find it very useful and would hate to lose this feature.
> Is this now deprecated, Lars?

By no means.  I often have a gazillion[1] summary buffers open at the
same time.  This is especially handy with large groups that have
complex (and body-scanning) score rules, which makes group entry
rather slow.

Footnotes: 
[1]  Here defined as "less than five".

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Kai Grossjohann]

>>>>> Dan Schmidt <dfan@harmonixmusic.com> writes:

  Dan> I have noticed that sometimes if I have one nnfolder *Summary*
  Dan> buffer open, and switch buffers back to *Group* without closing
  Dan> it, and then enter another nnfolder group, a lot of the first
  Dan> group's articles get unticked.

>>>>> Justin Sheehy writes:

  Justin> Why would you do this?

It makes reentering the group a *lot* faster if the group is large.
For me, generating the summary buffer for a 6000 article group takes
time longer than my patience.  I usually enter the one group that
large in the morning then go fetch some tea while Gnus is generating
the summary buffer.  I even added the following keybinding for
convenience:

,-----
| (define-key gnus-summary-exit-map "z" 'kai-gnus-summary-exit-group-quickly)
|                          
| (defun kai-gnus-summary-exit-group-quickly ()
|   (interactive)          
|   (switch-to-buffer gnus-group-buffer)
|   (delete-other-windows))
`-----

I have never noticed any problems with this for nnml.

kai
-- 
Life is hard and then you die.

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@charly.cs.uni-dortmund.de> writes:

> the summary buffer.  I even added the following keybinding for
> convenience:
> 
> ,-----
> | (define-key gnus-summary-exit-map "z" 'kai-gnus-summary-exit-group-quickly)
> |                          
> | (defun kai-gnus-summary-exit-group-quickly ()
> |   (interactive)          
> |   (switch-to-buffer gnus-group-buffer)
> |   (delete-other-windows))
> `-----

Ha ha ha!  Why not! :-)

-- 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
Contrary to popular belief, Unix is user friendly.  
It just happens to be selective about who it makes friends with.

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Dan Schmidt <dfan@harmonixmusic.com> writes:

> I have noticed that sometimes if I have one nnfolder *Summary* buffer
> open, and switch buffers back to *Group* without closing it, and then
> enter another nnfolder group, a lot of the first group's articles get
> unticked.

This is an unrelated bug -- it's nnfolder specific.

> I'm using Gnus v5.4.33; nntp 5.0; nnspool 2.0; nnfolder 1.0.

This may have been fixed in Gnus 5.4.52.  Perhaps.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Question about ticked articles being unticked...

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Karl Asha <karl@blackdown.com> writes:

> I have a fair number of ticked/persistent articles in a lot of my 
> summary buffers. Recently though it suddenly dawned on me that at some
> point in time, some of the older ticked articles get unticked. 

As noted elsewhere in this thread, other people are seeing the same
behavior.  I've yet to reproduce it or understand why it's happening,
though. 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen