Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

`C-u g' used to show the raw article.  I changed that to `C-u C-u g',
and made `C-u g' show the half-cooked article: After
Content-Transfer-Encoding handling, but before article washing.

Should we reverse the `C-u C-u g' and `C-u g' meanings?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 18:16:51 +0100, Lars wrote:

> Should we reverse the `C-u C-u g' and `C-u g' meanings?

I think that would be nice; C-u g has worked that way for the proverbial
ages, and you're the only one who wants half cooked articles ;-)


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Subdued flamboyance"                                        Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[Daniel Dehennin]

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Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> `C-u g' used to show the raw article.  I changed that to `C-u C-u g',
> and made `C-u g' show the half-cooked article: After
> Content-Transfer-Encoding handling, but before article washing.
>
> Should we reverse the `C-u C-u g' and `C-u g' meanings?

Why not inverting both?

I look at raw article often, I was not aware of an "half-cooked" mode.

Regards.
-- 
Daniel Dehennin
Récupérer ma clef GPG:
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 0x6A2540D1

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Re: Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>:

> `C-u g' used to show the raw article.  I changed that to `C-u C-u g',
> and made `C-u g' show the half-cooked article: After
> Content-Transfer-Encoding handling, but before article washing.

> Should we reverse the `C-u C-u g' and `C-u g' meanings?

+1

Nah...

+10

Re: Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[Christoph Conrad]

> Should we reverse the `C-u C-u g' and `C-u g' meanings?

Yes.

Re: Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[Frank Schmitt]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> `C-u g' used to show the raw article.  I changed that to `C-u C-u g',
> and made `C-u g' show the half-cooked article: After
> Content-Transfer-Encoding handling, but before article washing.
>
> Should we reverse the `C-u C-u g' and `C-u g' meanings?

Yes.

-- 
Have you ever considered how much text can fit in eighty columns?  Given that a
signature typically contains up to four lines of text, this space allows you to
attach a tremendous amount of valuable information to your messages.  Seize the
opportunity and don't waste your signature on bullshit that nobody cares about.

Re: Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[Harry Putnam]

Christoph Conrad <christoph.conrad@gmx.de> writes:

>> Should we reverse the `C-u C-u g' and `C-u g' meanings?
>
> Yes.

Yes please.... us less than developer users will have no idea what
we've gotten with C-u g if you change it this late in the game.

The current meaning has been in effect since before dirt was invented.
What is the advantage of changing it?   If you have the half cooked on
C-u C-u g... will that cause a hardship anywhere?

Re: Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[jidanni]

Yes, change it back to C-u g. Furthermore, with all the other factors
involved, depending on what variables one has set in his .emacs, one can
expect to get different degrees of rawness depending on if one is
outputting to the screen, a pipe, or file. What a mess. At least make
C-u g output "as raw as raw can be", "no ifs ands or buts".

Re: Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[Łukasz Stelmach]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> `C-u g' used to show the raw article.  I changed that to `C-u C-u g',
> and made `C-u g' show the half-cooked article: After
> Content-Transfer-Encoding handling, but before article washing.
>
> Should we reverse the `C-u C-u g' and `C-u g' meanings?

Yes. I've never felt an urge to see the half cooked version while I
quite often hit `C-u g' today.

-- 
Miłego dnia,
Łukasz Stelmach

Re: Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[Ludovic Courtès]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> `C-u g' used to show the raw article.  I changed that to `C-u C-u g',
> and made `C-u g' show the half-cooked article: After
> Content-Transfer-Encoding handling, but before article washing.
>
> Should we reverse the `C-u C-u g' and `C-u g' meanings?

Now that I’m +/- used to it, I’d say no.  Esthetically, it makes sense
to have more things to type to get the really raw article, I think.

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Re: Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[Greg Troxel]

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  `C-u g' used to show the raw article.  I changed that to `C-u C-u g',
  and made `C-u g' show the half-cooked article: After
  Content-Transfer-Encoding handling, but before article washing.

  Should we reverse the `C-u C-u g' and `C-u g' meanings?

We should be very reluctant to change the meaning of longstanding
bindings.   I want 'fully raw' most often.

Once you go beyond "100% raw" and "100% cooked", there are a larger
number of potential steps to be omitted.  So it probably makes sense to
use numeric prefixes.  An alternative interface would be to have some
keybinding following C-u g apply the processing steps one at a time.
I don't really recommend space (haven't thought enough) but how about it

  C-u g (fully raw) space (content-transfer) space (html/text select)
  space (wash) ....

and g when in incremental-cook mode got back to fully cooked and turned
space back to normal?

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Re: Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[Reiner Steib]

On Thu, Dec 02 2010, Greg Troxel wrote:

> Once you go beyond "100% raw" and "100% cooked", there are a larger
> number of potential steps to be omitted.  So it probably makes sense to
> use numeric prefixes.  

The numerical prefix is already used for
`gnus-summary-show-article-charset-alist':

,----[ <f1> f gnus-summary-show-article RET (from an not up-to-date Gnus) ]
| gnus-summary-show-article is an interactive compiled Lisp function
| in `gnus-sum.el'.
| (gnus-summary-show-article &optional ARG)
| 
| Force redisplaying of the current article.
| If ARG (the prefix) is a number, show the article with the charset
| defined in `gnus-summary-show-article-charset-alist', or the charset
| input.
| If ARG (the prefix) is non-nil and not a number, show the raw article
| without any article massaging functions being run.  Normally, the key
| strokes are `C-u g'.
`----

> An alternative interface would be to have some
> keybinding following C-u g apply the processing steps one at a time.
> I don't really recommend space (haven't thought enough) but how about it
>
>   C-u g (fully raw) space (content-transfer) space (html/text select)
>   space (wash) ....
>
> and g when in incremental-cook mode got back to fully cooked and turned
> space back to normal?

Maybe (info "(gnus)Symbolic Prefixes") could be used?

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

The poll shows that "revert `C-u g' back to its original meaning" has a
slight, but significant lead, so I've now reverted it.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 23:35:41 +0100 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

LMI> The poll shows that "revert `C-u g' back to its original meaning" has a
LMI> slight, but significant lead, so I've now reverted it.

(late to the discussion, as usual)

I think one of the million ELisp tab libraries (I have no idea what's
"current") could be used here to show alternate versions of the article.
The UI would look nice and is immediately obvious.  Text-mode users and
old-fashioned people that customize everything to 'leave-me-alone can
fall back to the untabbed versions.

Ted

Re: Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> I think one of the million ELisp tab libraries (I have no idea what's
> "current") could be used here to show alternate versions of the article.
> The UI would look nice and is immediately obvious.  Text-mode users and
> old-fashioned people that customize everything to 'leave-me-alone can
> fall back to the untabbed versions.

This sounds like a good idea, but it should be on a different key than
`g', which people apparently really like having work the way it works.
:-) 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 20:32:47 +0100 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

LMI> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>> I think one of the million ELisp tab libraries (I have no idea what's
>> "current") could be used here to show alternate versions of the article.
>> The UI would look nice and is immediately obvious.  Text-mode users and
>> old-fashioned people that customize everything to 'leave-me-alone can
>> fall back to the untabbed versions.

LMI> This sounds like a good idea, but it should be on a different key than
LMI> `g', which people apparently really like having work the way it works.
LMI> :-) 

`C-t' to toggle the tabs on and off?  No one will miss `transpose-chars'
and `t' already has a "toggle between full headers and abbreviated
headers" meaning.

Ted

Re: Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> `C-t' to toggle the tabs on and off?  No one will miss `transpose-chars'
> and `t' already has a "toggle between full headers and abbreviated
> headers" meaning.

`C-t' is -toggle-truncation, which I think could possibly be mildly
useful.

But I'm not sure that giving the user this fine-grained control over
what washes are applied would be, though.  We now have three levels
(raw, Content-Transfer-Encode-decoded, and fully overcooked), and I
think that covers 99.32% of what we need.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Poll: `C-u g' and `C-u C-u g' meanings

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Thu, 16 Dec 2010 17:11:16 +0100 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote: 

LMI> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>> `C-t' to toggle the tabs on and off?  No one will miss `transpose-chars'
>> and `t' already has a "toggle between full headers and abbreviated
>> headers" meaning.

LMI> `C-t' is -toggle-truncation, which I think could possibly be mildly
LMI> useful.

OK, I'm sure we can find some key.

LMI> But I'm not sure that giving the user this fine-grained control over
LMI> what washes are applied would be, though.  We now have three levels
LMI> (raw, Content-Transfer-Encode-decoded, and fully overcooked), and I
LMI> think that covers 99.32% of what we need.

The point is to show all the versions (washed and not) in one compact
frame, without interfering with the reading experience and still giving
the reader a hint that he can see the alternate versions if he wants.
Tabs are the only good way to do that, IMO.

Ted