Re: Gnus and ESMTP

Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[Simon Josefsson]

(reply to old thread about starttls support in smtpmail.el)

I implemented STARTTLS support for smtpmail.el, and created a page to
describe how to use it at

http://josefsson.org/emacs-smtp-starttls.html 

The patch also include support for the SASL authentication method
CRAM-MD5 too.

Hopefully something similar can be shipped with emacsen in the future.

Gnus and ESMTP

[Marcelo Toledo]

I searched the last message about this topic and it is 4 years old. Is
anybody working on this? Why jas patch haven't been applied, what are
the major problems and modifications is required?

[1] http://www.pdc.kth.se/~jas/starttls-0.1.tar.gz
[2] http://www.pdc.kth.se/~jas/emacs-rfc2554.html
-- 
Marcelo Toledo
marcelo@marcelotoledo.org
http://www.marcelotoledo.org
Mobile: 55 71 9141-7181

Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[Jesper Harder]

Marcelo Toledo <marcelo@marcelotoledo.org> writes:

> I searched the last message about this topic and it is 4 years old. Is
> anybody working on this? Why jas patch haven't been applied, what are
> the major problems and modifications is required?

It's in cvs Emacs, AFAIK.

-- 
Jesper Harder                                <http://purl.org/harder/>

Gnus and ESMTP

[Miroslav Zubcic]

Hello Gnus hackers.

I have searching, greping and reading info, but I can find part that
is interesting to me (or I can't see it).

Is it possible for Gnus to communicate with MTA on port 25, that is,
not by calling /usr/sbin/sendmail directly like mutt(1) and some other
UN*X MUA's do?

If this is possible, is there somware some LISP code for supporting
ESMTP AUTH (SASL mechanism) or/and STARTTLS (SSL layer) by giving
certificate to server?

I'm using Gnus with Gnus-agent, and my current way for sending mail
looks like this: (related line in .gnus)

(setq gnus-agent-send-mail-function message-send-mail-function)

Can somebody give me (please :-) ...) some information about this?

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Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[Kevin Falcone]

>>>>> "MZ" == Miroslav Zubcic <miroslav.zubcic@zesoi.fer.hr> writes:

  MZ> Is it possible for Gnus to communicate with MTA on port 25

smtpmail.el  It should be in $prefix/share/emacs/$version/lisp/mail/
I use it from feedmail.el, which is in the same directory.

  MZ> If this is possible, is there somware some LISP code for
  MZ> supporting ESMTP AUTH (SASL mechanism) or/and STARTTLS (SSL
  MZ> layer) by giving certificate to server?

That, I don't know. 

  MZ> I'm using Gnus with Gnus-agent, and my current way for sending
  MZ> mail looks like this: (related line in .gnus)

If you are using agent, then you should look at feedmail which allows
you to queue all your mail, and then when you are online, use
feedmail-run-the-queue to call smtpmail with all your queued mail.

-kevin

-- 
Kevin Falcone <kevinfal@seas.upenn.edu>

We have tamed lightning - and now use it to make sand think.

Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[Kai Großjohann]

Kevin Falcone <kevinfal@seas.upenn.edu> writes:

> If you are using agent, then you should look at feedmail which allows
> you to queue all your mail, and then when you are online, use
> feedmail-run-the-queue to call smtpmail with all your queued mail.

But the agent already queues mail if you say M-x gnus-unplugged RET.
That's what the agent is for, after all.

Is it really useful to queue the mail twice?

kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[Miroslav Zubcic]

Kevin Falcone <kevinfal@seas.upenn.edu> writes:

> smtpmail.el  It should be in $prefix/share/emacs/$version/lisp/mail/
> I use it from feedmail.el, which is in the same directory.

Thank you, I have found it in xemacs-packages, but seems to me that it
doesnt work with Gnus, no matter what I put in .gnus/.emacs, loading
libs... :-( Can I please you - or somebody else an example
configuration for Gnus <-> smtpmail?

If we understand here, I want from Gnus to open connection on port,
and speak with MTA; "EHLO", "MAIL FROM: " etc...
Not like now: /usr/sbin/sendmail < message-buffer  :-)

[...]

> If you are using agent, then you should look at feedmail which allows
> you to queue all your mail, and then when you are online, use
> feedmail-run-the-queue to call smtpmail with all your queued mail.

But gnus-agent wil queue mail by default, so I'm using that line (my
first post) because I preffer to send e-mail directy, because sendmail
will queue it on /var/spool/mqueue, and when I go on-line,
/etc/ppp/ip-up script starts sendmail -q ...

Gnus-agent queue is good to me (excelent) for queueing news articles,
there is no need for double queueing mail.

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Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[Kai Großjohann]

Miroslav Zubcic <miroslav.zubcic@zesoi.fer.hr> writes:

> But gnus-agent wil queue mail by default, so I'm using that line (my
> first post) because I preffer to send e-mail directy, because sendmail
> will queue it on /var/spool/mqueue, and when I go on-line,
> /etc/ppp/ip-up script starts sendmail -q ...

I wonder, why do you want to avoid running sendmail -- you have it
installed already?

kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[David Kågedal]

Miroslav Zubcic <miroslav.zubcic@zesoi.fer.hr> writes:

> Kevin Falcone <kevinfal@seas.upenn.edu> writes:
> 
> > smtpmail.el  It should be in $prefix/share/emacs/$version/lisp/mail/
> > I use it from feedmail.el, which is in the same directory.
> 
> Thank you, I have found it in xemacs-packages, but seems to me that it
> doesnt work with Gnus, no matter what I put in .gnus/.emacs, loading
> libs... :-( Can I please you - or somebody else an example
> configuration for Gnus <-> smtpmail?

These are my settings, which I made using M-x customize

(custom-set-variables
 '(smtpmail-smtp-server "smtp.server.here.se")
 '(message-send-mail-function (quote smtpmail-send-it)))

-- 
David Kågedal

Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[Kai Großjohann]

Miroslav Zubcic <miroslav.zubcic@zesoi.fer.hr> writes:

> Is it possible for Gnus to communicate with MTA on port 25, that is,
> not by calling /usr/sbin/sendmail directly like mutt(1) and some other
> UN*X MUA's do?

Kevin already mentioned smtpmail.el.

> If this is possible, is there somware some LISP code for supporting
> ESMTP AUTH (SASL mechanism) or/and STARTTLS (SSL layer) by giving
> certificate to server?

>From looking at the source, smtpmail.el does not appear to grok ESMTP
AUTH, but it should be possible to replace `open-network-stream' in
the function smtpmail-via-smtp with `open-ssl-stream', and that should
pretty much work.  open-ssl-stream is part of ssl.el which comes with W3.

kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[Miroslav Zubcic]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> Kevin already mentioned smtpmail.el.

No matter what I do with it, Gnus will send mail by calling sendmail
binary, not with smtpmail. :-(

> From looking at the source, smtpmail.el does not appear to grok ESMTP
> AUTH, but it should be possible to replace `open-network-stream' in
> the function smtpmail-via-smtp with `open-ssl-stream', and that should
> pretty much work.  open-ssl-stream is part of ssl.el which comes with W3.

You have right Kai! Even to me (no habla LISP) is obvious, I must
replace only SMTP commands HELO/EHLO, and some minor changes must be
done. For STARTTLS (RFC 2487), ssl.el will be relative easy to
implement (on the first look). But for a start I must make smtpmail.el
to work with Gnus...

I Tryed this: 

(setq send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it)
(setq smtpmail-default-smtp-server "anthea")
(setq smtpmail-smtp-service "smtp") ;; default port 25
(setq smtpmail-local-domain "mydomain.dom")
(setq smtpmail-debug-info t) ;; for a start
(load-library "smtpmail")
(setq smtpmail-code-conv-from nil)
;;(setq user-full-name "YOUR NAME HERE")

...and I have removed this:

(setq gnus-agent-send-mail-function message-send-mail-function)

Then I restart XEmacs, but everything is the same, except that mail is
queue'ed in Gnus, and when I toggle pluged mode with J-j and send mail
with J-S,  smtpmail is not used... :-(

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Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[ShengHuo ZHU]

Miroslav Zubcic <miroslav.zubcic@zesoi.fer.hr> writes:

[...]

> (setq send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it)

[...]

> ...and I have removed this:
> 
> (setq gnus-agent-send-mail-function message-send-mail-function)

Try this

(if (and (boundp 'gnus-agent-send-mail-function)
	gnus-agent-send-mail-function)
      (setq gnus-agent-send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it)
    (setq message-send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it))

ShengHuo

Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[Miroslav Zubcic]

ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

> Try this
> 
> (if (and (boundp 'gnus-agent-send-mail-function)
> 	gnus-agent-send-mail-function)
>       (setq gnus-agent-send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it)
>     (setq message-send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it))

Yes, it works, together with Kai's and David Kigedal's advices. Thank
you Shenguo, Kai, David, and other guys for fast help.

BTW, on this place I have find patches for smtpmail.el for smtp AUTH
didn't tested it yet...

http://www.pdc.kth.se/~jas/emacs-rfc2554.html

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Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[William M. Perry]

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Miroslav Zubcic <miroslav.zubcic@zesoi.fer.hr> writes:

> Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:
> 
> > Kevin already mentioned smtpmail.el.
> 
> No matter what I do with it, Gnus will send mail by calling sendmail
> binary, not with smtpmail. :-(
> 
> > From looking at the source, smtpmail.el does not appear to grok ESMTP
> > AUTH, but it should be possible to replace `open-network-stream' in
> > the function smtpmail-via-smtp with `open-ssl-stream', and that should
> > pretty much work.  open-ssl-stream is part of ssl.el which comes with W3.
> 
> You have right Kai! Even to me (no habla LISP) is obvious, I must
> replace only SMTP commands HELO/EHLO, and some minor changes must be
> done. For STARTTLS (RFC 2487), ssl.el will be relative easy to
> implement (on the first look). But for a start I must make smtpmail.el
> to work with Gnus...

ssl.el won't work with ESMTPs STARTTLS command, because it expects to just
talk SSL from the beginning.  ESMTP and HTTPS tunneling thru a proxy server
expect you to start the SSL handshake partway thru the connection.

Some old patches I had floating around for Emacs to natively support SSL
would support this, but I never released them because of the #%!@#%@! NSA /
US restrictions (this was probably 5 years ago :).

Someone might be working on them - I sent them my old design outline (no
code), but will let them announce something when they are ready.

-Bill P.

Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[Simon Josefsson]

Miroslav Zubcic <miroslav.zubcic@zesoi.fer.hr> writes:

> You have right Kai! Even to me (no habla LISP) is obvious, I must
> replace only SMTP commands HELO/EHLO, and some minor changes must be
> done. For STARTTLS (RFC 2487), ssl.el will be relative easy to
> implement (on the first look). But for a start I must make smtpmail.el
> to work with Gnus...

ssl.el does not do STARTTLS.

There is a STARTTLS implementation in elisp/C [1] by Daiki Ueno that
work with IMAP, if you want I could make an attempt to make it work
for SMTP too.

As you noted, SMTP with the CRAM-MD5 SASL method is available at [2].
I'm not sure the patch still apply cleanly but only minor
modifications should be required anyway.

[1] http://www.pdc.kth.se/~jas/starttls-0.1.tar.gz
[2] http://www.pdc.kth.se/~jas/emacs-rfc2554.html

Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[William M. Perry]

Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> writes:

> Miroslav Zubcic <miroslav.zubcic@zesoi.fer.hr> writes:
> 
> > You have right Kai! Even to me (no habla LISP) is obvious, I must
> > replace only SMTP commands HELO/EHLO, and some minor changes must be
> > done. For STARTTLS (RFC 2487), ssl.el will be relative easy to
> > implement (on the first look). But for a start I must make smtpmail.el
> > to work with Gnus...
> 
> ssl.el does not do STARTTLS.
> 
> There is a STARTTLS implementation in elisp/C [1] by Daiki Ueno that work
> with IMAP, if you want I could make an attempt to make it work for SMTP
> too.

Hrm - looks pretty cool.  I'll have to see if we can merge ssl.el and that
together.  I don't know when I'd be able to find the time though.  Right
now I'm behind on work and play. :(

Anybody want to give it a shot?

-Bill P.

Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[Simon Josefsson]

wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes:

> > ssl.el does not do STARTTLS.
> > 
> > There is a STARTTLS implementation in elisp/C [1] by Daiki Ueno that work
> > with IMAP, if you want I could make an attempt to make it work for SMTP
> > too.
> 
> Hrm - looks pretty cool.  I'll have to see if we can merge ssl.el and that
> together.

It's my understanding that TLS supercedes SSL, so perhaps it's easiest
just to make sure that starttls.el understands SSL too, and only use
starttls.el.  It's not unlikely that starttls.c already does support
SSL, since it uses OpenSSL.

Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[Miroslav Zubcic]

Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> writes:

> It's my understanding that TLS supercedes SSL, so perhaps it's easiest
> just to make sure that starttls.el understands SSL too, and only use

Yes, it does. For me it is similar to sendmail 8.11.0.Beta3 code, and
this is something which probably netscape messager do. IMHO only thing
that must be implemented is Gnus/LISP side of the story, and users
path to "~/secret/foo.{pem,p12}".

IMHO important thing is that starttls MUST reject sending procces if
user's "~/secret/foo.{pem,p12}" is not chmod'ed 700/600.

> starttls.el.  It's not unlikely that starttls.c already does support
> SSL, since it uses OpenSSL.

#include <openssl/ssl.h>

Agreed. ;-)

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Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[William M. Perry]

Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> writes:

> wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes:
> 
> > > ssl.el does not do STARTTLS.
> > > 
> > > There is a STARTTLS implementation in elisp/C [1] by Daiki Ueno that work
> > > with IMAP, if you want I could make an attempt to make it work for SMTP
> > > too.
> > 
> > Hrm - looks pretty cool.  I'll have to see if we can merge ssl.el and that
> > together.
> 
> It's my understanding that TLS supercedes SSL, so perhaps it's easiest
> just to make sure that starttls.el understands SSL too, and only use
> starttls.el.  It's not unlikely that starttls.c already does support SSL,
> since it uses OpenSSL.

I mean that ssl.el provides a lot more than just SSL negotiation.  It has
functions to get information about a certificate so it can be viewed by a
human, you can accept new CA certificates into the repository, etc.

-Bill P.

Re: Gnus and ESMTP

[Miroslav Zubcic]

Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> writes:

> There is a STARTTLS implementation in elisp/C [1] by Daiki Ueno that
> work with IMAP, if you want I could make an attempt to make it work
> for SMTP too.

It will be realy nice, I have tryed to do something with this
starttls elisp/C and smtp.el, but without some better progress. :-( On
the first look it seems simple, but it isn't. What Gnus + smtpmail
must to do is:

        - open connection on port 25
        - EHLO (not HELO)
        - STARTTLS (now he must show certificate to MTA and open ssl)
        - EHLO (yes, again, but now MTA don't offer STARTTLS anymore)
        - AUTH CRAM-MD5 (optionaly)
        - MAIL FROM:  ...... etc...

> As you noted, SMTP with the CRAM-MD5 SASL method is available at [2].
> I'm not sure the patch still apply cleanly but only minor
> modifications should be required anyway.

It looks like i miss some libraries, because patch wont byte-compile
properly. BTW, nnimap.el (or something in cooperation with it) is
using CRAM-MD5 SASL when loging to cyrus imapd.

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