* New PostScript manuals generated @ 1997-06-07 23:48 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1997-06-16 8:09 ` Jost.Krieger+list 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1997-06-07 23:48 UTC (permalink / raw) I changed the font size to 11pt -- 10pt seemed too small for Bembo and 12pt too big. I use Futura 10pt (which is the same size as Bembo 11pt, for some reason) for variable names (etc.) and Adobe Courier 11pt for the code examples (etc.). I was recommended IBM's Courier, but we didn't have that one. I've also added Luis' hand-drawn gnu herds for the chapter pages. I blurred them some, since they weren't scanned in that high a resolution. For the back cover I used something I generated accidentally -- a washed-out section of the herd pictured with an obscenely high smooth factor. A nice accident, I think. So the manual now kinda looks like I want it to look, I think. Unless I change my mind, of course. It's 250 pages, 1Mb compressed (20Mb uncompressed -- those gnu herd pictures compress very nicely). Get it from <URL:http://www.ifi.uio.no/~larsi/gnus.org.www/documents/>. It'll spread over to <URL:http://gnus.org.www/documents/> later tonight. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated 1997-06-07 23:48 New PostScript manuals generated Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1997-06-16 8:09 ` Jost.Krieger+list 1997-06-16 13:10 ` Justin Sheehy 1997-06-17 15:55 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Jost.Krieger+list @ 1997-06-16 8:09 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: I've printed (and kinda proofmarked) the A4 edition (again). Here are my (global) findings: > I changed the font size to 11pt -- 10pt seemed too small for Bembo and > 12pt too big. I use Futura 10pt (which is the same size as Bembo > 11pt, for some reason) for variable names (etc.) and Adobe Courier > 11pt for the code examples (etc.). I was recommended IBM's Courier, > but we didn't have that one. The fonts look nice, except that in some places you use an italic font that's way too large (like in the A4 version on page 205: *backend*-status-string). > I've also added Luis' hand-drawn gnu herds for the chapter pages. I > blurred them some, since they weren't scanned in that high a > resolution. For the back cover I used something I generated > accidentally -- a washed-out section of the herd pictured with an > obscenely high smooth factor. A nice accident, I think. The chapter gnus are nice, except the Appendices have chapter number 10 and nine gnus in front :-) Should that be an inverted Gnu ? > So the manual now kinda looks like I want it to look, I think. Unless > I change my mind, of course. My 2 Pfennige: I think the page gnu should be farther away from the text body, like under the page number. The outer margin is quite large. Could we put something sensible in there (like Notes and Warnings)? Oops. There *are* gnus there, just not that many. Could those be centered in the margin, or at least be symmetric for left and right pages ? Your reference algorithm is broken. External references are horrible, but rare. Internal references point to the place before the chapter or section, typically on the wrong page. If you use LaTeX's reference mechanism, make sure the "label"s are generated after the chapter heading. (Could we have a look at your production tools ?) Contentswise: I miss something about customize. The FAQ is so old, it smells. Like "The latest (and greatest) version is 5.0.10. ..." There is a *much* newer version online that mentions Quassia instead of insisting "September gnus is the alpha version ..." Then there are the typos ... coming later, as always. Jost BTW: Thank you for the nice manual, I really like it, even if it doesn't sound so :-) -- Jost Krieger, Postmaster, Rechenzentrum der Ruhr-Universitaet Bochum Jost.Krieger@ruhr-uni-bochum.de ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated 1997-06-16 8:09 ` Jost.Krieger+list @ 1997-06-16 13:10 ` Justin Sheehy 1997-06-16 15:04 ` Hrvoje Niksic [not found] ` <wk4tay1r7i.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> 1997-06-17 15:55 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Justin Sheehy @ 1997-06-16 13:10 UTC (permalink / raw) Jost.Krieger+list@ruhr-uni-bochum.de writes: > The FAQ is so old, it smells. Like > > "The latest (and greatest) version is 5.0.10. ..." > > There is a *much* newer version online that mentions Quassia instead > of insisting "September gnus is the alpha version ..." Yeah, I know. I need to sit down with the texinfo reference and make a new conversion. The FAQ itself is maintained in HTML. There is no simple way that I know of to convert HTML to texinfo. [1] Thus, I need to do it by hand. I'll get to this soon, really I will. I may end up deciding at some point to maintain it in some other format which is more trivially convertible to others, but I'm not really sure yet if I want to do that. -Justin [1] If anyone knows of one, feel free to tell me. :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated 1997-06-16 13:10 ` Justin Sheehy @ 1997-06-16 15:04 ` Hrvoje Niksic [not found] ` <wk4tay1r7i.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1997-06-16 15:04 UTC (permalink / raw) Justin Sheehy <dworkin@ccs.neu.edu> writes: > I need to sit down with the texinfo reference and make a new > conversion. The FAQ itself is maintained in HTML. There is no simple > way that I know of to convert HTML to texinfo. [1] [...] > [1] If anyone knows of one, feel free to tell me. :-) I converted the whole of XEmacs FAQ in one day, and it was really simple. As I type quite fast, the whole work was done in only 11 hours of incessant typing. But, as Gnus FAQ is so much smaller, you should be through in less than 5 hours! Can't get simpler than that, really. :-) -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- Unspeakable horrors from outer space paralyze the living and resurrect the dead! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <wk4tay1r7i.fsf@peorth.gweep.net>]
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated [not found] ` <wk4tay1r7i.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> @ 1997-06-17 16:00 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1997-06-17 22:51 ` Steven L Baur 1997-06-18 8:09 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1997-06-18 7:41 ` Steinar Bang 1 sibling, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1997-06-17 16:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> writes: > Maintain the original in SGML and use the SGML tools to make various other > version from the hypertext version. I believe that they include an SGML to > Texinfo filter. > > Failing that, maintain the original in Texinfo and use the Texinfo to HTML > filter. Hear, hear. The last couple of weeks I've had to search out documentation on various fields I don't know much about, and it's rather heartbreaking for me to see just how much stuff is only documented on the Web. I want to print things out, sit down in my sofa and read things off of paper, not sit staring at the screen while reading documentation. It's fine for reading quickie stuff, but for actual reading, it's awful, I think. I'm really happy with the FSF's choice of TeXinfo. We get paper, info and HTML documentation all in one. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated 1997-06-17 16:00 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1997-06-17 22:51 ` Steven L Baur 1997-06-20 10:01 ` Per Abrahamsen 1997-06-18 8:09 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Steven L Baur @ 1997-06-17 22:51 UTC (permalink / raw) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > I'm really happy with the FSF's choice of TeXinfo. We get paper, info > and HTML documentation all in one. Everything except something acceptable to the News.Answers gods ... :-( -- steve@calag.com baur Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be billed at $250/message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated 1997-06-17 22:51 ` Steven L Baur @ 1997-06-20 10:01 ` Per Abrahamsen 1997-06-20 13:20 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1997-06-20 19:33 ` Steven L Baur 0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Per Abrahamsen @ 1997-06-20 10:01 UTC (permalink / raw) Steven L Baur <steve@xemacs.org> writes: > Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > > > I'm really happy with the FSF's choice of TeXinfo. We get paper, info > > and HTML documentation all in one. > > Everything except something acceptable to the News.Answers gods ... :-( Uh, Texinfo gives you plain text (with makeinfo --no-headers). Isn't plain text acceptable on news.answers? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated 1997-06-20 10:01 ` Per Abrahamsen @ 1997-06-20 13:20 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1997-06-20 19:33 ` Steven L Baur 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1997-06-20 13:20 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: XEmacs Philosophers Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes: > > Everything except something acceptable to the News.Answers gods ... :-( > > Uh, Texinfo gives you plain text (with makeinfo --no-headers). > Isn't plain text acceptable on news.answers? Hmm, really! I think I like the output of XEmacs FAQ now. :-) <URL:http://jagor.srce.hr/~hniksic/xemacs-faq.txt> -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- * Q: What is an experienced Emacs user? * A: A person who wishes that the terminal had pedals. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated 1997-06-20 10:01 ` Per Abrahamsen 1997-06-20 13:20 ` Hrvoje Niksic @ 1997-06-20 19:33 ` Steven L Baur 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Steven L Baur @ 1997-06-20 19:33 UTC (permalink / raw) Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes: > Steven L Baur <steve@xemacs.org> writes: >> Everything except something acceptable to the News.Answers gods ... :-( > Uh, Texinfo gives you plain text (with makeinfo --no-headers). Isn't > plain text acceptable on news.answers? Preferable is digest or mini-digest format, which IIRC was also one of your initial suggestions to the Gnus FAQ. -- steve@calag.com baur Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be billed at $250/message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated 1997-06-17 16:00 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1997-06-17 22:51 ` Steven L Baur @ 1997-06-18 8:09 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1997-06-18 12:06 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1997-06-18 8:09 UTC (permalink / raw) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > I'm really happy with the FSF's choice of TeXinfo. We get paper, > info and HTML documentation all in one. With Yodl, you get Texinfo, nroff, SGML, HTML[1] and plain text, all in one. YODL == Yet One-other Documentation Language [1] Yes, I know about the redundancy here. -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- * Vi is the God of editors. * Emacs is the editor of Gods. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated 1997-06-18 8:09 ` Hrvoje Niksic @ 1997-06-18 12:06 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1997-06-18 19:20 ` Richard Coleman 1997-06-18 20:10 ` Jason R Mastaler 0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1997-06-18 12:06 UTC (permalink / raw) Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: > With Yodl, you get Texinfo, nroff, SGML, HTML[1] and plain text, all > in one. Where can I find info on Yodl? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated 1997-06-18 12:06 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1997-06-18 19:20 ` Richard Coleman 1997-06-18 20:10 ` Jason R Mastaler 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Richard Coleman @ 1997-06-18 19:20 UTC (permalink / raw) > Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: > > > With Yodl, you get Texinfo, nroff, SGML, HTML[1] and plain text, all > > in one. > > Where can I find info on Yodl? http://www.icce.rug.nl/docs/programs/yodl/yodl.html Richard Coleman coleman@math.gatech.edu ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated 1997-06-18 12:06 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1997-06-18 19:20 ` Richard Coleman @ 1997-06-18 20:10 ` Jason R Mastaler 1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Jason R Mastaler @ 1997-06-18 20:10 UTC (permalink / raw) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Where can I find info on Yodl? http://www.icce.rug.nl/docs/programs/yodl/yodl.html Jason R. Mastaler jason@mastaler.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated [not found] ` <wk4tay1r7i.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> 1997-06-17 16:00 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1997-06-18 7:41 ` Steinar Bang 1997-06-18 12:33 ` Robert Bihlmeyer 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Steinar Bang @ 1997-06-18 7:41 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>: >>>>> "JS" == Justin Sheehy <dworkin@ccs.neu.edu> writes: JS> The FAQ itself is maintained in HTML. There is no simple way that I JS> know of to convert HTML to texinfo. [1] Thus, I need to do it by hand. > Maintain the original in SGML and use the SGML tools to make various > other version from the hypertext version. I believe that they > include an SGML to Texinfo filter. What would be a good DTD? Write a custom FAQ DTD...? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated 1997-06-18 7:41 ` Steinar Bang @ 1997-06-18 12:33 ` Robert Bihlmeyer 1997-06-24 10:26 ` Steinar Bang 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Robert Bihlmeyer @ 1997-06-18 12:33 UTC (permalink / raw) Hi, >>>>> On 18 Jun 1997 09:41:11 +0200 >>>>> Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> said: Someone said: >> Maintain the original in SGML and use the SGML tools to make >> various other version from the hypertext version. I believe that >> they include an SGML to Texinfo filter. Steinar> What would be a good DTD? Write a custom FAQ DTD...? SGML-tools _is_ a DTD. From the blurb: > This system is tailored for writing technical software documentation, > an example of which are the Linux HOWTO documents. However, there is > nothing Linux-specific about this package; it can be used for many > other types of documentation on many other systems. It should be > useful for all kinds of printed and online documentation. Check with <URL:http://web.inter.NL.net/users/C.deGroot/sgmltools/>. Robbe -- Robert Bihlmeyer reads: Deutsch, English, MIME, Latin-1, NO SPAM! <robbe@orcus.priv.at> <http://stud2.tuwien.ac.at/~e9426626/sig.html> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated 1997-06-18 12:33 ` Robert Bihlmeyer @ 1997-06-24 10:26 ` Steinar Bang 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Steinar Bang @ 1997-06-24 10:26 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> Robert Bihlmeyer <e9426626@student.tuwien.ac.at>: > Hi, >>>>> On 18 Jun 1997 09:41:11 +0200 >>>>> Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> said: > Someone said: >>> Maintain the original in SGML and use the SGML tools to make >>> various other version from the hypertext version. I believe that >>> they include an SGML to Texinfo filter. Steinar> What would be a good DTD? Write a custom FAQ DTD...? > SGML-tools _is_ a DTD. From the blurb: Ah I read this, as "SGML Tools". Ie. as the generic term, comprising nsgmls, psgml, and what have you... <URL:http://www.falch.no/people/pepper/sgmltool/guide.htm> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated 1997-06-16 8:09 ` Jost.Krieger+list 1997-06-16 13:10 ` Justin Sheehy @ 1997-06-17 15:55 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1997-06-19 14:36 ` Jost Krieger 1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1997-06-17 15:55 UTC (permalink / raw) Jost.Krieger+list@ruhr-uni-bochum.de writes: > The fonts look nice, except that in some places you use an italic font > that's way too large (like in the A4 version on page 205: > *backend*-status-string). Yeah, that looked ugly. It's not an italic font -- it's a slanted sans serif thing. I've no idea why it ended up bigger than the surrounding text. I've now made it smaller explicitly. > The chapter gnus are nice, except the Appendices have chapter number > 10 and nine gnus in front :-) Should that be an inverted Gnu ? I'm going to drop two of the chapters ("Composing Messages" and "The Article Buffer" -- they'll be moved to "Various". They're rather small.) and add a new "Introduction to Gnus" chapter that'll explain the main points without using any big words, and lots of screenshots. And Custom screenshots. That should give us 9 chapters, if one can count "Appendices" as a chapter. > I think the page gnu should be farther away from the text body, like > under the page number. Ah, yes, that might be nice. I'll give it a try and see how it looks. > The outer margin is quite large. Could we put something sensible in > there (like Notes and Warnings)? Oops. There *are* gnus there, just > not that many. Could those be centered in the margin, or at least be > symmetric for left and right pages ? Yup. There'll also be toolbar icons (if somebody would make those large versions, that is. Pleeeeeze!) and X-Faces and smilies and picons and stuff in the margins. Where they belong, of course. The screenshots will also occupty the margins as well as the body. That is, they'll be as wide as that line on the top of the page. > Your reference algorithm is broken. External references are horrible, > but rare. Internal references point to the place before the chapter > or section, typically on the wrong page. If you use LaTeX's reference > mechanism, make sure the "label"s are generated after the chapter > heading. I run LaTeX on the output thrice, but I guess that isn't enough. :-) First I run LaTeX to get the indices and stuff, and then it's run to include the table of contents, and then one would think the third run should get the page references right, but perhaps the length of the page references skew things, so that I'll have to run it again to get the page references right. > (Could we have a look at your production tools ?) <URL:http://www.ifi.uio.no/~larsi/rgnus/texi/> is where it all happens. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated 1997-06-17 15:55 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1997-06-19 14:36 ` Jost Krieger 1997-06-20 22:13 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread From: Jost Krieger @ 1997-06-19 14:36 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 458 bytes --] >>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: Lars> I run LaTeX on the output thrice, but I guess that isn't enough. :-) That's not the problem. Look at your generated code: \label{Finding the News} \gnussection{Finding the News} \gnusindex{finding news} This won't work until you put the "\label" after the "\gnussection". Hmm, which means minor surgery, as \label is generated from "@node" and \gnussection from "@section". Jost [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/plain, Size: 106 bytes --] -- Jost Krieger, Postmaster, Rechenzentrum der Ruhr-Universität Bochum Jost.Krieger@ruhr-uni-bochum.de ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: New PostScript manuals generated 1997-06-19 14:36 ` Jost Krieger @ 1997-06-20 22:13 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1997-06-20 22:13 UTC (permalink / raw) Jost Krieger <Jost.Krieger@ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes: > \label{Finding the News} > \gnussection{Finding the News} > \gnusindex{finding news} > > This won't work until you put the "\label" after the "\gnussection". Ah, right. I'll just flip the lines. Or better yet, have \gnussection call \label after doing the sectioning. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1997-06-24 10:26 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 19+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 1997-06-07 23:48 New PostScript manuals generated Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1997-06-16 8:09 ` Jost.Krieger+list 1997-06-16 13:10 ` Justin Sheehy 1997-06-16 15:04 ` Hrvoje Niksic [not found] ` <wk4tay1r7i.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> 1997-06-17 16:00 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1997-06-17 22:51 ` Steven L Baur 1997-06-20 10:01 ` Per Abrahamsen 1997-06-20 13:20 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1997-06-20 19:33 ` Steven L Baur 1997-06-18 8:09 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1997-06-18 12:06 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1997-06-18 19:20 ` Richard Coleman 1997-06-18 20:10 ` Jason R Mastaler 1997-06-18 7:41 ` Steinar Bang 1997-06-18 12:33 ` Robert Bihlmeyer 1997-06-24 10:26 ` Steinar Bang 1997-06-17 15:55 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1997-06-19 14:36 ` Jost Krieger 1997-06-20 22:13 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
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