Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Kai Großjohann]

I think I did something stupid: I left Gnus running on my machine at
work, then dialed in from home and started another Gnus (on the same
machine).  Didn't notice a thing at first.

Now I come into my office and find a running Gnus.  Whee.  I
immediately hit `q' to quit it, and sure enough, it says no changes
need to be saved, and quits.

I _think_ this means I'm safe, but am I really?

Suppose that the next time my running Gnus hasn't saved all changes
before I go home and it happens again?

M-x gnus-slave RET is not a solution -- that requires me to notice
that a Gnus is already running.  And this time I didn't notice.

kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Jorge Godoy]

>>>>> On 03 Oct 2000 18:10:42 -0400, prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) said:

    PJ> You might add a hook function to create a lock file when Gnus starts,
    PJ> signaling an error if it already exists.  Add another hook for when
    PJ> Gnus exists to delete the file.

This way, _HE_ would be safe. And all the other users?


See you,
-- 
Godoy. <godoy@conectiva.com>

Departamento de Publicações       Conectiva S.A.
Publishing Department             Conectiva Inc.

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Jorge Godoy]

>>>>> On 03 Oct 2000 18:20:32 -0400, prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) said:

    PJ> What do you mean?  They can also add these (hypothetical) functions to
    PJ> the appropriate hooks, if they wish to protect themselves.  Perhaps
    PJ> you think I meant that all users using this feature would share a lock
    PJ> file.  I did not.

You didn't get my point. (I admint I didn't explained it so you could
see what I meant ;-) sorry)

Suppose that I'm a newbie at Emacs and Gnus (I'm a newbie at Gnus). I
won't be protected by default. There should be a default function to
protect me -- newbie --, or it should be safe to have 2 gnusae running
simultaneously. 

I think that one should not bet on the user to make things safe at his
side... 


See you,
-- 
Godoy. <godoy@conectiva.com>

Departamento de Publicações       Conectiva S.A.
Publishing Department             Conectiva Inc.

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Karl Kleinpaste]

I always run a single XEmacs for Gnus-related matters with
gnuserv running, and use gnuclient from anywhere else.  The whole
question of "another Gnus running" never arises.

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Paul Jarc]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai =?iso-8859-1?q?Gro=DFjohann?=) writes:
> I _think_ this means I'm safe, but am I really?

I think so too.  This time.

> Suppose that the next time my running Gnus hasn't saved all changes
> before I go home and it happens again?

You might add a hook function to create a lock file when Gnus starts,
signaling an error if it already exists.  Add another hook for when
Gnus exists to delete the file.


paul

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Paul Jarc]

Jorge Godoy <godoy@conectiva.com> writes:
> >>>>> On 03 Oct 2000 18:10:42 -0400, prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) said:
>     PJ> You might add a hook function to create a lock file when Gnus starts,
>     PJ> signaling an error if it already exists.  Add another hook for when
>     PJ> Gnus exists to delete the file.
> 
> This way, _HE_ would be safe. And all the other users?

What do you mean?  They can also add these (hypothetical) functions to
the appropriate hooks, if they wish to protect themselves.  Perhaps
you think I meant that all users using this feature would share a lock
file.  I did not.


paul

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Paul Jarc]

Jorge Godoy <godoy@conectiva.com> writes:
> Suppose that I'm a newbie at Emacs and Gnus (I'm a newbie at Gnus). I
> won't be protected by default.

I'm not in control of Gnus, so I can't do anything about that.  But
the solution I suggested could easily be included in the Gnus
distribution by any of those who are in control.


paul

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Christoph Rohland]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> Suppose that the next time my running Gnus hasn't saved all changes
> before I go home and it happens again?

Normally it detects a auto-safe file. But this of course only work
after auto-save-interval.

Greetings
		Christoph

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Chris Shenton]

On 03 Oct 2000 18:10:42 -0400, prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) said:

>> Suppose that the next time my running Gnus hasn't saved all changes
>> before I go home and it happens again?

Paul> You might add a hook function to create a lock file when Gnus
Paul> starts, signaling an error if it already exists.  Add another
Paul> hook for when Gnus exists to delete the file.

And if it detects the other, remote session and exits, how does one
then get to use Gnus? How can you safely terminate the remote running
Gnus session? If it was reading news/mail and hadn't saved its buffers
then simply "kill"ing it would potentiall lose a lot of your state.

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Andreas Fuchs]

Today, Chris Shenton <cshenton@uucom.com> wrote:
> And if it detects the other, remote session and exits, how does one
> then get to use Gnus? How can you safely terminate the remote running
> Gnus session? If it was reading news/mail and hadn't saved its buffers
> then simply "kill"ing it would potentiall lose a lot of your state.

As Karl Kleinpaste suggested, gnuserv/gnuclient would be a solution.

-- 
Andreas Stefan Fuchs                             in Real Life aka
asf@acm.org, asfuchs@gmx.at, asf@ycom.at         in NNTP and SMTP,
antifuchs                                        in IRCNet and
Relf Herbstfresser, Male 1/2 Elf Priest          in AD&D

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[David S. Goldberg]

> On 03 Oct 2000 18:10:42 -0400, prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) said:
>>> Suppose that the next time my running Gnus hasn't saved all changes
>>> before I go home and it happens again?

Paul> You might add a hook function to create a lock file when Gnus
Paul> starts, signaling an error if it already exists.  Add another
Paul> hook for when Gnus exists to delete the file.

> And if it detects the other, remote session and exits, how does one
> then get to use Gnus? How can you safely terminate the remote running
> Gnus session? If it was reading news/mail and hadn't saved its buffers
> then simply "kill"ing it would potentiall lose a lot of your state.

Presumably gnus-slave would still work.  My home directory at work is
in AFS space and I can run xemacs and gnus on any number of machines.
Thus, I've got in the habit of only running gnus from my desktop
workstation and gnus-slave anywhere else.  This hasn't seemed to cause
any harm even if I don't actually have gnus running on my desktop when
I run gnus-slave.  That is, the next time I run gnus on my desktop, it
finds the slave .newsrcs and incorporates their info.  Maybe I'm just
getting lucky.
-- 
Dave Goldberg
dsg@world.std.com

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Paul Jarc]

Chris Shenton <cshenton@uucom.com> writes:
> On 03 Oct 2000 18:10:42 -0400, prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) said:
> Paul> You might add a hook function to create a lock file when Gnus
> Paul> starts, signaling an error if it already exists.  Add another
> Paul> hook for when Gnus exists to delete the file.
> 
> And if it detects the other, remote session and exits, how does one
> then get to use Gnus?

That's not the problem I was trying to solve (and there are already
solutions for that problem, as other have said).  I was suggesting a
solution to the problem of *noticing* that Gnus was already running
somewhere else.


paul

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Kai Großjohann]

On 03 Oct 2000, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:

> I always run a single XEmacs for Gnus-related matters with
> gnuserv running, and use gnuclient from anywhere else.  The whole
> question of "another Gnus running" never arises.

That's good.  But I can't leave Emacs running when I log out.  (And I
always log out before going home, in case someone wants to boot the
machine.)

I think `xemacs --unmapped' is your friend, but I don't use XEmacs...

kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Kai Großjohann]

On 04 Oct 2000, David S. Goldberg wrote:

> [...] Thus, I've got in the habit of only running gnus from my
> desktop workstation and gnus-slave anywhere else. [...]

I didn't know it was safe to run gnus-slave even if no Gnus was
running at the time.  But that's wonderful!  Now I can always run
gnus-slave when at home, and Bob's my uncle.

kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Kai Großjohann]

On 04 Oct 2000, Chris Shenton wrote:

> And if it detects the other, remote session and exits, how does one
> then get to use Gnus? How can you safely terminate the remote
> running Gnus session?

I hope that auto-save takes care of that.  It should...

kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Kai Großjohann]

On 04 Oct 2000, Christoph Rohland wrote:

> Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:
> 
>> Suppose that the next time my running Gnus hasn't saved all changes
>> before I go home and it happens again?
> 
> Normally it detects a auto-safe file. But this of course only work
> after auto-save-interval.

Hm?  Oh, the newly starting Gnus detects an auto-save file.  Hm.
Right.  So, what should I answer in such a case?  Yes or no?

kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Paul Jarc]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai =?iso-8859-1?q?Gro=DFjohann?=) writes:
> But I can't leave Emacs running when I log out.
...
> I think `xemacs --unmapped' is your friend, but I don't use XEmacs...

You could run Emacs in a detached Screen session... except then it
seems that make-frame-on-display doesn't work, since the initial frame
is on a tty.  Does Emacs have make-frame-on-tty yet?
Or you could find an X server that simulates /dev/null (produces no
input events and draws nowhere), and run Emacs on that.


paul

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Laura Conrad]

>>>>> "Kai" == Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes:

    Kai> On 04 Oct 2000, David S. Goldberg wrote:
    >> [...] Thus, I've got in the habit of only running gnus from my
    >> desktop workstation and gnus-slave anywhere else. [...]

    Kai> I didn't know it was safe to run gnus-slave even if no Gnus
    Kai> was running at the time.  But that's wonderful!  Now I can
    Kai> always run gnus-slave when at home, and Bob's my uncle.

But if you have left the master gnus running, you would still have to
remember to restart it if you had been using slaves, wouldn't you?

-- 
Laura (mailto:lconrad@laymusic.org , http://www.laymusic.org )

(Note the email and homepage address changes; please update your
address book, bookmarks, and links.)

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Russ Allbery]

Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes:
> On 04 Oct 2000, Chris Shenton wrote:

>> And if it detects the other, remote session and exits, how does one
>> then get to use Gnus? How can you safely terminate the remote running
>> Gnus session?

> I hope that auto-save takes care of that.  It should...

It does.  I kill running Gnus emacs processes all the time and it copes
fine.

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)             <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Raja R Harinath]

Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:
> Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes:
> > On 04 Oct 2000, Chris Shenton wrote:
> >> And if it detects the other, remote session and exits, how does one
> >> then get to use Gnus? How can you safely terminate the remote running
> >> Gnus session?
> 
> > I hope that auto-save takes care of that.  It should...
> 
> It does.  I kill running Gnus emacs processes all the time and it copes
> fine.

They work mostly fine.  However, I think NoCeM info, and duplicate
supression lists aren't saved on an improper exit.

- Hari
-- 
Raja R Harinath ------------------------------ harinath@cs.umn.edu
"When all else fails, read the instructions."      -- Cahn's Axiom
"Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing."   -- Roy L Ash

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Kai Großjohann]

On 04 Oct 2000, Laura Conrad wrote:

> But if you have left the master gnus running, you would still have
> to remember to restart it if you had been using slaves, wouldn't
> you?

Yes.  But when I come back to the office and see that Gnus is still
running, bells start ringing in my gut.  Normally I should be logged
out.  So that's not a problem.

kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Laura Conrad]

>>>>> "Kai" == Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes:

    >> But if you have left the master gnus running, you would still
    >> have to remember to restart it if you had been using slaves,
    >> wouldn't you?

    Kai> Yes.  But when I come back to the office and see that Gnus is
    Kai> still running, bells start ringing in my gut.  Normally I
    Kai> should be logged out.  So that's not a problem.

Yes, but it might be a problem for me, because I typically leave gnus
running both at home and in the office.  I've been getting home mail
at work (I don't want work mail at home) by just forwarding
everything, but now that I have dsl at home I've been thinking about
doing it by running a slave gnus at work on the home machine. 


-- 
Laura (mailto:lconrad@laymusic.org , http://www.laymusic.org )

(Note the email and homepage address changes; please update your
address book, bookmarks, and links.)

Re: Starting a second Gnus -- dangerous?

[Christoph Rohland]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> On 04 Oct 2000, Christoph Rohland wrote:
> 
> > Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:
> > 
> >> Suppose that the next time my running Gnus hasn't saved all
> >> changes before I go home and it happens again?
> > 
> > Normally it detects a auto-safe file. But this of course only work
> > after auto-save-interval.
> 
> Hm?  Oh, the newly starting Gnus detects an auto-save file.  Hm.
> Right.  So, what should I answer in such a case?  Yes or no?

I normally stop proceeding and start a gnuclient against the existing
session to either proceed or quit there.

Greetings
		Christoph