gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Andreas Büsching]

This looks like copy'n'paste from gnus-convert-image-to-x-face-command ;-)

,----
| gnus-convert-image-to-face-command's value is 
| "djpeg %s | ppmnorm | pnmscale -width 48 -height 48 | ppmquant %d | pnmtopng"
| 
| Command for converting a GIF to an X-Face.
                           ^^^       ^^^^^^
I don't think so ...

| 
| You can customize this variable.
| 
| Defined in `gnus-fun'.
`----

crunchy

-- 
There can't be a crisis today, my schedule is already full.

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Simon Josefsson]

Andreas Büsching <crunchy@tzi.de> writes:

> This looks like copy'n'paste from gnus-convert-image-to-x-face-command ;-)
>
> ,----
> | gnus-convert-image-to-face-command's value is 
> | "djpeg %s | ppmnorm | pnmscale -width 48 -height 48 | ppmquant %d | pnmtopng"
> | 
> | Command for converting a GIF to an X-Face.
>                            ^^^       ^^^^^^
> I don't think so ...

Fixed, thanks.

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Romain FRANCOISE]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> Fixed, thanks.

2003-01-16  Simon Josefsson  <jas@extundo.com>

	* gnus-fun.el (gnus-convert-image-to-x-face-command) 
	(gnus-convert-image-to-face-command, gnus-x-face-from-file) 
	(gnus-face-from-file): Doc fix; don't mention image format.

Er, could you please revert this?  The image format *is* important in
the docstring, in the first case (X-Face) we expect a GIF whereas in
the other (Face), we expect a JPEG.  The only thing that needed fixing
is the gnus-convert-image-to-face-command docstring, which is *still*
incorrect, it should be:

"Command for converting a JPEG image to a Face."

not

"Command for converting an image to an X-Face."

Thanks,

-- 
Romain FRANCOISE <romain@orebokech.com> | Don't forget to breathe, and
it's a miracle -- http://orebokech.com/ | pay before you leave.

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Simon Josefsson]

Romain FRANCOISE <romain@orebokech.com> writes:

> 2003-01-16  Simon Josefsson  <jas@extundo.com>
>
> 	* gnus-fun.el (gnus-convert-image-to-x-face-command) 
> 	(gnus-convert-image-to-face-command, gnus-x-face-from-file) 
> 	(gnus-face-from-file): Doc fix; don't mention image format.
>
> Er, could you please revert this?  The image format *is* important in
> the docstring, in the first case (X-Face) we expect a GIF whereas in
> the other (Face), we expect a JPEG.  The only thing that needed fixing
> is the gnus-convert-image-to-face-command docstring, which is *still*
> incorrect, it should be:
>
> "Command for converting a JPEG image to a Face."
>
> not
>
> "Command for converting an image to an X-Face."

Isn't the only thing that depend on what format the file must be in
the command the variable itself specifies?

(defcustom gnus-convert-image-to-x-face-command "giftopnm %s | ppmnorm | pnmscale -width 48 -height 48 | ppmtopgm | pgmtopbm | pbmtoxbm | compface"
  "Command for converting an image to an X-Face."

The user may change the command to use jpegtopnm or something entirely
different, and then the variable documentation would be confusing.  If
the user isn't supposed to be able to alter the command, perhaps it
should be made into a constant.

What do you think of the following solution as a compromise?

  "Command for converting an image to an X-Face.
The default is to convert from GIF images by using giftopnm and some
other programs."

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Romain FRANCOISE]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> The user may change the command to use jpegtopnm or something entirely
> different, and then the variable documentation would be confusing.  If
> the user isn't supposed to be able to alter the command, perhaps it
> should be made into a constant.

Ah!  Yes, good point.  I really don't know if the user is supposed to
change the command, I guess if there's only one way to do it, he doesn't
need to.

> What do you think of the following solution as a compromise?

>   "Command for converting an image to an X-Face.
> The default is to convert from GIF images by using giftopnm and some
> other programs."

I think we must at least give the expected image format in the functions
docstrings, so that the user knows what file to give at the prompt,
otherwise she'll be confused.  Your suggestion looks fine, can you cook
something up for the function definitions as well?

(In `gnus-convert-image-to-face-command', "X-Face" should be "Face", by
the way--your patch didn't fix it.)

-- 
Romain FRANCOISE <romain@orebokech.com> | The moon is closer to the sun
it's a miracle -- http://orebokech.com/ | than I am to anyone.

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Simon Josefsson]

Romain FRANCOISE <romain@orebokech.com> writes:

> Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:
>
>> The user may change the command to use jpegtopnm or something entirely
>> different, and then the variable documentation would be confusing.  If
>> the user isn't supposed to be able to alter the command, perhaps it
>> should be made into a constant.
>
> Ah!  Yes, good point.  I really don't know if the user is supposed to
> change the command, I guess if there's only one way to do it, he doesn't
> need to.

The alternative Gnus motto might be: There Should Always Be Another
Way To Do It.

>> What do you think of the following solution as a compromise?
>
>>   "Command for converting an image to an X-Face.
>> The default is to convert from GIF images by using giftopnm and some
>> other programs."
>
> I think we must at least give the expected image format in the functions
> docstrings, so that the user knows what file to give at the prompt,
> otherwise she'll be confused.  Your suggestion looks fine, can you cook
> something up for the function definitions as well?

The docstring isn't shown with the prompt, is it?  But indicating this
in the prompt is probably more useful.  Ok:

Index: gnus-fun.el
===================================================================
RCS file: /usr/local/cvsroot/gnus/lisp/gnus-fun.el,v
retrieving revision 6.34
retrieving revision 6.35
diff -u -p -r6.34 -r6.35
--- gnus-fun.el	2003/01/17 06:57:45	6.34
+++ gnus-fun.el	2003/01/17 09:02:08	6.35
@@ -36,12 +36,16 @@
   :type 'string)
 
 (defcustom gnus-convert-image-to-x-face-command "giftopnm %s | ppmnorm | pnmscale -width 48 -height 48 | ppmtopgm | pgmtopbm | pbmtoxbm | compface"
-  "Command for converting an image to an X-Face."
+  "Command for converting an image to an X-Face.
+By default it takes a GIF filename and output the X-Face header data
+on stdout."
   :group 'gnus-fun
   :type 'string)
 
 (defcustom gnus-convert-image-to-face-command "djpeg %s | ppmnorm | pnmscale -width 48 -height 48 | ppmquant %d | pnmtopng"
-  "Command for converting an image to an X-Face."
+  "Command for converting an image to an Face.
+By default it takes a JPEG filename and output the Face header data
+on stdout."
   :group 'gnus-fun
   :type 'string)
 
@@ -86,7 +90,7 @@ Output to the current buffer, replace te
 ;;;###autoload
 (defun gnus-x-face-from-file (file)
   "Insert an X-Face header based on an image file."
-  (interactive "fImage file name: ")
+  (interactive "fImage file name (by default GIF): ")
   (when (file-exists-p file)
     (gnus-shell-command-to-string
      (format gnus-convert-image-to-x-face-command
@@ -95,7 +99,7 @@ Output to the current buffer, replace te
 ;;;###autoload
 (defun gnus-face-from-file (file)
   "Return an Face header based on an image file."
-  (interactive "fImage file name: ")
+  (interactive "fImage file name (by default JPEG): ")
   (when (file-exists-p file)
     (let ((done nil)
 	  (attempt "")

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Romain FRANCOISE]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> The docstring isn't shown with the prompt, is it?  But indicating this
> in the prompt is probably more useful. 

Indeed.  Thanks for fixing this!

-- 
Romain FRANCOISE <romain@orebokech.com> | I've become someone else's
it's a miracle -- http://orebokech.com/ | nightmare...

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Andreas Büsching]

Romain FRANCOISE <romain@orebokech.com> wrote:

> Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:
>
>> The docstring isn't shown with the prompt, is it?  But indicating this
>> in the prompt is probably more useful. 
>
> Indeed.  Thanks for fixing this!

By the way faces ... I have some thoughts about that topic ...

0. I definitly like the functionality of the FACE header

1. Is it really a good idea to call the header FACE?

2. There is a gnus-random-x-face. What a bout a gnus-random-face?

any feedback would be cool.

crunchy


-- 
Reality is for people who lack imagination.

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Andreas Büsching <crunchy@tzi.de> writes:

> 1. Is it really a good idea to call the header FACE?

If it's going to be a standard header, then Face is probably as good
a name as any.  :-)

> 2. There is a gnus-random-x-face. What a bout a gnus-random-face?

I'm not sure whether anybody ever used the former function, so there
hasn't been any clamor for the latter.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Andreas Büsching]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:

> Andreas Büsching <crunchy@tzi.de> writes:
>
>> 1. Is it really a good idea to call the header FACE?
>
> If it's going to be a standard header, then Face is probably as good
> a name as any.  :-)

That may be right, but do you really think, that it will become one,
just because you, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen, said it? I think you need to
do something more for that ... ;-)

>> 2. There is a gnus-random-x-face. What a bout a gnus-random-face?
>
> I'm not sure whether anybody ever used the former function, so there
> hasn't been any clamor for the latter.

So if there is no clamor for the first one, why is it in the soure of
Oort Gnus? Does it of any special authorization for existence? ;-)

crunchy

-- 
When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and suddenly realized   
that I was talking to myself.

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Andreas Büsching <crunchy@tzi.de> writes:

> That may be right, but do you really think, that it will become one,
> just because you, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen, said it?

What, you mean it won't?  I'm shocked!

>> I'm not sure whether anybody ever used the former function, so there
>> hasn't been any clamor for the latter.
>
> So if there is no clamor for the first one, why is it in the soure of
> Oort Gnus? Does it of any special authorization for existence? ;-)

It was an experiment...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Simon Josefsson]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

>> 2. There is a gnus-random-x-face. What a bout a gnus-random-face?
>
> I'm not sure whether anybody ever used the former function, so there
> hasn't been any clamor for the latter.

I use g-r-x-f...  and it's even mentioned in the manual.

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Andreas Büsching]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:

> Andreas Büsching <crunchy@tzi.de> writes:
>
>> That may be right, but do you really think, that it will become one,
>> just because you, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen, said it?
>
> What, you mean it won't?  I'm shocked!

I'm very sorry, I don't want to destroy your whole philosophy of life
;-) I think you have to ask the peiople at the IETF ...


>>> I'm not sure whether anybody ever used the former function, so there
>>> hasn't been any clamor for the latter.
>>
>> So if there is no clamor for the first one, why is it in the soure of
>> Oort Gnus? Does it of any special authorization for existence? ;-)
>
> It was an experiment...

... and when will this experminent be finished?

crunchy

-- 
There are 2 major products that came out of Berkeley:
UNIX and LSD.
We don't believe this to be a coincidence.

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Andreas Büsching <crunchy@tzi.de> writes:

> I'm very sorry, I don't want to destroy your whole philosophy of life
> ;-)

I'm feeling it fall to pieces around me.

> I think you have to ask the peiople at the IETF ...

Nah.  Premature IETF-ing isn't the way we used to do it in the olden
days, and I see no reason to do it now.

Invent.  Deploy.  Done. 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> I use g-r-x-f...  and it's even mentioned in the manual.

Well, perhaps the non-x version should be added, too, then.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Romain FRANCOISE]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Nah.  Premature IETF-ing isn't the way we used to do it in the olden
> days, and I see no reason to do it now.

C'mon, we could create a new IETF Working Group, and name it, uh,
lessee, yeah, let's call it ROFL.  You know, like "Research Organization
on Face: and other Ludicrous things."

(Where of course the *real* meaning would be "Revolutionary Outlaws and
other Followers of Larsi.")

-- 
Romain FRANCOISE <romain@orebokech.com> | But you don't care for me and
it's a miracle -- http://orebokech.com/ | I don't care now for anybody.

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Romain FRANCOISE <romain@orebokech.com> writes:

> C'mon, we could create a new IETF Working Group, and name it, uh,
> lessee, yeah, let's call it ROFL.  You know, like "Research Organization
> on Face: and other Ludicrous things."

That sounds like a good idea.

> (Where of course the *real* meaning would be "Revolutionary Outlaws and
> other Followers of Larsi.")

Let's keep that *really* *secret*.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

>> C'mon, we could create a new IETF Working Group, and name it, uh,
>> lessee, yeah, let's call it ROFL.  You know, like "Research Organization
>> on Face: and other Ludicrous things."
>
> That sounds like a good idea.

So, how does one start an IETF wg?  This one could do the two
deprecated technologies "X-Face" and "Picons", and the new, fab
"Face" technology.  Anything else that is equally ludicrous? 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Romain FRANCOISE]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> So, how does one start an IETF wg?  This one could do the two
> deprecated technologies "X-Face" and "Picons", and the new, fab
> "Face" technology.

From what I see on http://www.apps.ietf.org/procedures.html#1 it seems
awfully complicated.  Though the hardest part would probably be to
convince the Area Directors that what we're doing is useful...

Sigh.

-- 
Romain FRANCOISE <romain@orebokech.com> | All you've been is a piece of
it's a miracle -- http://orebokech.com/ | blood wrapped in skin.

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Colin Marquardt]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> So, how does one start an IETF wg?  This one could do the two
> deprecated technologies "X-Face" and "Picons", and the new, fab
> "Face" technology.  Anything else that is equally ludicrous? 

"Earcons" too, of course. Plus let's standardize attribution line
formats so that Gnus can always buttonize it.

Cheers,
  Colin

-- 
"I can't believe it!!
Apple has just unveiled their new eMac and there's already a newsgroup 
about it!!! Aren't you all just so excited??! I can't wait!!!" 
                                 <cindysue17(at)aol.com> in comp.emacs

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Romain FRANCOISE <romain@orebokech.com> writes:

> From what I see on http://www.apps.ietf.org/procedures.html#1 it seems
> awfully complicated.  Though the hardest part would probably be to
> convince the Area Directors that what we're doing is useful...

Sounds like work.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Andreas Büsching]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:

> Romain FRANCOISE <romain@orebokech.com> writes:
>
>> From what I see on http://www.apps.ietf.org/procedures.html#1 it seems
>> awfully complicated.  Though the hardest part would probably be to
>> convince the Area Directors that what we're doing is useful...
>
> Sounds like work.

... sounds like you give up ...

Okay, so let's find another name for this nice header ;-)

crunchy

-- 
After all is said and done, a hell of a lot more is said than done.

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Andreas Büsching <crunchy@tzi.de> writes:

> ... sounds like you give up ...

I'm just lazy.

> Okay, so let's find another name for this nice header ;-)

What's wrong with Face?  

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Reiner Steib]

On Tue, Jan 21 2003, Simon Josefsson wrote:

> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>
>>> 2. There is a gnus-random-x-face. What a bout a gnus-random-face?
>>
>> I'm not sure whether anybody ever used the former function, so there
>> hasn't been any clamor for the latter.
>
> I use g-r-x-f...  and it's even mentioned in the manual.

I use a slightly modified version of `gnus-random-x-face' (my files
are already x-face, no need to convert the on the fly).

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW   http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Romain FRANCOISE]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Sounds like work.

If you can get people from other related projects (Mew, VM, Evolution,
you name it) to work with us, the amount of work needed would be split
between numerous people, and the resulting Internet-Drafts (and
hopefully, RFCs) would more likely be accepted and become real
standards.

But yes, it's even more work.

-- 
Romain FRANCOISE <romain@orebokech.com> | I've become someone else's
it's a miracle -- http://orebokech.com/ | nightmare...

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Romain FRANCOISE <romain@orebokech.com> writes:

> If you can get people from other related projects (Mew, VM, Evolution,
> you name it) to work with us, the amount of work needed would be split
> between numerous people, and the resulting Internet-Drafts (and
> hopefully, RFCs) would more likely be accepted and become real
> standards.

Yup.

> But yes, it's even more work.

Indeed.

I think I just don't have the stamina to do much about it at the
present.  If other news reader authors picks up on it -- fine.  The
spec has been published at <URL: http://quimby.gnus.org/circus/face/>.
If nobody else picks up on it -- that's OK, too.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Andreas Büsching]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:

> Andreas Büsching <crunchy@tzi.de> writes:
>
>> ... sounds like you give up ...
>
> I'm just lazy.

No comment ;-)

>> Okay, so let's find another name for this nice header ;-)
>
> What's wrong with Face?  

The name is not wrong, but up to now it is not standard, so it should
begin with `X-'. And just to be honst, I don't think that you are
really planning to create a new IETF wg to make FACE a new standard
header in mails. ;-)

I mean, it is definitely okay for me, that this header is called FACE,
but I also think it would be quite nice to accept that no standard
header fields should start with `X-'. Nothing more.

As you can see in this posting a really like this new header field.
BTW, I think it would be really cool, if gnus-face-from-file would also
accept png and not just jpeg images.

crunchy

-- 
Reality is for people who lack imagination.

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Andreas Büsching <crunchy@tzi.de> writes:

> I mean, it is definitely okay for me, that this header is called FACE,
> but I also think it would be quite nice to accept that no standard
> header fields should start with `X-'. Nothing more.

No, that's not accurate.  All fields that one doesn't intend to become
standard should start with "X-".  Mail-Copies-To and Face are two
header fields introduced by Gnus that are intended to become standard
fields.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Romain FRANCOISE]

Andreas Büsching <crunchy@tzi.de> writes:

> BTW, I think it would be really cool, if gnus-face-from-file would
> also accept png and not just jpeg images.

You can frob the `gnus-convert-image-to-face-command' variable, replace
it with one that takes PNG images as input and returns smaller PNGs, or
whatever you want to have.  The resulting header must comply with the
specs at <URL: http://quimby.gnus.org/circus/face/> though.

(If you want to be able to use JPEGs *and* PNGs, then you could advise
the function, check the image type in the advice, and let-bind the
command to the appropriate value.)

-- 
Romain FRANCOISE <romain@orebokech.com> | Wait, stop, wait just hold on
it's a miracle -- http://orebokech.com/ | a minute.

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Simon Josefsson]

Andreas Büsching <crunchy@tzi.de> writes:

> The name is not wrong, but up to now it is not standard, so it should
> begin with `X-'.

RFC 822 used to say something along those lines, but it is superseded
by RFC 2822 which is silent on the issue and doesn't explicitely
forbid undocumented headers AFAIK.  So using Face seems like a better
choice than X-Face.

Re: gnus-convert-image-to-face-command

[Russ Allbery]

Andreas Büsching <crunchy@tzi.de> writes:

> The name is not wrong, but up to now it is not standard, so it should
> begin with `X-'. And just to be honst, I don't think that you are really
> planning to create a new IETF wg to make FACE a new standard header in
> mails. ;-)

You don't need to create a working group, just submit an I-D and then ask
the appropriate area director to review it.  For something this simple and
straightforward, I wouldn't expect it to be much of an issue to get this
published as an Informational RFC (Proposed Standard may be a bit more
challenging).

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)             <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>